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Offlineakira_akuma
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Registered: 08/28/09
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: topdog82]
    #22233422 - 09/13/15 06:57 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

boy when i was 7 i didn't do all that.


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OfflineLSDreamer
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: topdog82]
    #22233425 - 09/13/15 06:58 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

topdog82 said:
Quote:

LSDreamer said:
Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
When you go to a doctor though their job is not to tell you to be eating good food and exercising.

I am pretty sure that you are assumed to be doing your best at that. They shouldn't have to tell you every time.




I suppose that's somewhat true, but a good psychiatrist is not simply a pill dispenser. While medication is their primary tool, a good psychiatrist will also have a genuine interest in your self-care practices.



Well yes. They should. Taking speed to solve life's issues before trying the more basic things such as eating and sleeping properly is an issue

Patient: "I have trouble focusing. I eat fried chicken every meal, drink 4 nights a week, pop molly, have 6 different social networks, smoke weed everyday, and dont go class"
Doctor: "here have some speed. Its called ADHD"
Patient: "Gee thanks! This is a smart long term plan for the rest of my life"




That is really not how proper psychiatry works. That may be how people are misdiagnosed and over medicated, but that does not invalidate properly done psychiatry.


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InvisibleCowb0yNeal00
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Registered: 06/05/13
Posts: 11,059
Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: topdog82]
    #22233429 - 09/13/15 06:58 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

topdog82 said:
Quote:

LSDreamer said:
Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
When you go to a doctor though their job is not to tell you to be eating good food and exercising.

I am pretty sure that you are assumed to be doing your best at that. They shouldn't have to tell you every time.




I suppose that's somewhat true, but a good psychiatrist is not simply a pill dispenser. While medication is their primary tool, a good psychiatrist will also have a genuine interest in your self-care practices.



Well yes. They should. Taking speed to solve life's issues before trying the more basic things such as eating and sleeping properly is an issue

Patient: "I have trouble focusing. I eat fried chicken every meal, drink 4 nights a week, pop molly, have 6 different social networks, smoke weed everyday, and dont go class"
Doctor: "here have some speed. Its called ADHD"
Patient: "Gee thanks! This is a smart long term plan for the rest of my life"



thats very true and also kids as earlier as 12 even younger can be diagnosed and even at that age a lot of has to do with watching to much TV and not eating a healthy diet. :mushroom2:


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Offlinetopdog82
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Registered: 07/16/10
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: LSDreamer]
    #22233441 - 09/13/15 07:01 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

LSDreamer said:
Quote:

topdog82 said:
BC; provide me a single shred of evidence that ADHD is an uncurable disease from birth, not simply being unable to pay attention

10 pages in...and we are yet to get a proper piece of evidence




Dude, you're practically getting into epistimology now, and it's just not useful. I kinda thought we pretty much resolved this, but apparently not. There is a cluster of symptoms associated with AD(H)D. You seem to mainly contest whether or not this cluster of symptoms should be called a "disease" or not.

Let me ask you a question: If you terminated your self-care practices, whatever they are, would your symptoms return?



Well I think that its mainly a symptom rather than a DISEASE. A disease is something typically that cannot be fixed and needs to be taken seriously. More importantly it isnt uncurable. And lastly, medication is a last resort

My aunt had CFS. Proper diet and sleep could not really fix it. She felt like shit all the time. that is a disease. My roomate was suicidal despite following a healthy diet and lifestyle. medication was the only choice

I guess its at the point where we are arguing semantics of what a disease really is. But IMO every college kid I talked to procrastinates and dicks around most of their days. To label a group of kids as "special" and ADHD really is silly IMO. It isn't uncurable, genetic, or from birth. If you have kids who are on social networks all day they will be distracted

If you have a generation of kids on social networks all day they will be distracted. Depression has existed from the dawn of time. Anxiety disorder has as well


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InvisibleCowb0yNeal00
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Registered: 06/05/13
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: Cowb0yNeal00]
    #22233442 - 09/13/15 07:01 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

people on the medicine do you except to stay on it for the rest of your life? Shouldn't u eventually lay off it once you learned something? :smugjerry:


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OfflineLSDreamer
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: Cowb0yNeal00]
    #22233476 - 09/13/15 07:06 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Cowb0yNeal00 said:
people on the medicine do you except to stay on it for the rest of your life? Shouldn't u eventually lay off it once you learned something? :smugjerry:




I will need to be on a variety of psychiatric medications for my entire life. The alternative is suicidal depression. Period.


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OfflineBitter Cactus
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: LSDreamer]
    #22233529 - 09/13/15 07:12 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I think we call things like bipolar, ADD, depression, GAD, ect. disorders.

ADD is not just being distracted. That shows how little you understand about it. There is a very long list of symptoms. I personally had to do an extended test that had at least one hundred questions and do an interview to qualify.

We all get distracted, but that does NOT mean we all have ADD. To be considered ADD you have to undergo a evaluation and have a professional follow a list of symptoms and stuff like that to be diagnosed. I am not qualified to say if someone has ADD, but I can tell you there is much more to it then being distracted.


--------------------
Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.




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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22233540 - 09/13/15 07:13 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

LSDreamer said:
Quote:

topdog82 said:
Quote:

LSDreamer said:
Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
When you go to a doctor though their job is not to tell you to be eating good food and exercising.

I am pretty sure that you are assumed to be doing your best at that. They shouldn't have to tell you every time.




I suppose that's somewhat true, but a good psychiatrist is not simply a pill dispenser. While medication is their primary tool, a good psychiatrist will also have a genuine interest in your self-care practices.



Well yes. They should. Taking speed to solve life's issues before trying the more basic things such as eating and sleeping properly is an issue

Patient: "I have trouble focusing. I eat fried chicken every meal, drink 4 nights a week, pop molly, have 6 different social networks, smoke weed everyday, and dont go class"
Doctor: "here have some speed. Its called ADHD"
Patient: "Gee thanks! This is a smart long term plan for the rest of my life"




That is really not how proper psychiatry works. That may be how people are misdiagnosed and over medicated, but that does not invalidate properly done psychiatry.



Well lol I guess I am being flippant. psychiatrists that I went to we quite in depth. Its gotten to the point where I am exagerrating reality to provoke BC. Being provocative is addicting

But on a serious note, there are no value judgements here. But lying about the nature about your attention span as being uncurable is doing everyone more harm than good

The psychiatrists I went to did in depth analysis for months and rigorous tests. They weren't idiots. Just like people with "ADHD" aren't. But if every single person I know has claimed to have had ADHD when noone in France does, is this not a red flag?

I was diangosed ADHD and so was my brother. My dad has 0 problems focusing. My mom doesn't either. All of my cousins on my dads' side have being diagnosed ADHD or lineup with the symptoms to the point where its eerie (I bring up my cousin in the convo because I have grown up with them right down the street). I was in a computer engineering study group a read the symptoms of ADHD aloud and 75% of them said that the symptoms could not have been more accurate. In addition at least 50% of my friend group has ADHD. They all went to high end psychiatrists(all of us are upper class. I am not being cocky its just the area I grew up in) and many of the younger professors in my college have ADHD

Who doesn't have ADHD is the question? Like I said, if 50% of this generation I know fits the symptoms of ADHD down to a T (anecdotally and most with a proper psychiatrist) I am not convinced that a small group of kids are "special"?

I cant say with certainty but it certainly seems to be leaning in my direction

In addition EVERY one of my friends who has had ADHD as diagnosed by a psychiatrist has said it disappeared completely when they trained their mind to be one point for 20 minutes a day (meditation or neurofeedback)

I apologize for not saying the evidence is convincing

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
boy when i was 7 i didn't do all that.



I smoked chronic out the womb bruh


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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22233559 - 09/13/15 07:15 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
I think we call things like bipolar, ADD, depression, GAD, ect. disorders.

ADD is not just being distracted. That shows how little you understand about it. There is a very long list of symptoms. I personally had to do an extended test that had at least one hundred questions and do an interview to qualify.

We all get distracted, but that does NOT mean we all have ADD. To be considered ADD you have to undergo a evaluation and have a professional follow a list of symptoms and stuff like that to be diagnosed. I am not qualified to say if someone has ADD, but I can tell you there is much more to it then being distracted.



I grew up in a fairly upper class area. at least 75% of the people I know have thier symptoms of poor attention span lineup exactly with ADHD anecdotally and 50% of that 75% has had themselves extensively evaluated by a psychiatrist. I remained unconvinced


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OfflineLSDreamer
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Registered: 03/11/08
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: topdog82]
    #22233615 - 09/13/15 07:23 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

topdog82 said:
Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
I think we call things like bipolar, ADD, depression, GAD, ect. disorders.

ADD is not just being distracted. That shows how little you understand about it. There is a very long list of symptoms. I personally had to do an extended test that had at least one hundred questions and do an interview to qualify.

We all get distracted, but that does NOT mean we all have ADD. To be considered ADD you have to undergo a evaluation and have a professional follow a list of symptoms and stuff like that to be diagnosed. I am not qualified to say if someone has ADD, but I can tell you there is much more to it then being distracted.



I grew up in a fairly upper class area. at least 75% of the people I know have thier symptoms of poor attention span lineup exactly with ADHD anecdotally and 50% of that 75% has had themselves extensively evaluated by a psychiatrist. I remained unconvinced




Two things, mate.

One: I think we are differing on the definition of "cure". I asked you if you terminated your self-care practices would your symptoms return, and you didn't answer. I'm going to guess the answer is yes. Being able to effectively manage a condition in the long term is not the same as being "cured".

Two: This is exactly why, for this type of thing, we must look to statistical analysis to form our understanding. Your personal experiences are not sufficient to come to an accurate understanding of the causes and prevalence of ADD. Nor are mine. Or anybody's. You should trust your own experiences very cautiously as a general rule.


--------------------


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Offlinespecialpeopleclub
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: topdog82] * 1
    #22233637 - 09/13/15 07:28 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I am very skeptical of psychology and its ,any made up diseases. Some are just patterns that don;t cohere to what those aroind you would prefer. In the west we are haunted bu essentialism, amd think people need to be some narrow thing, when variability is natural and how it should be


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OfflineBitter Cactus
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Registered: 01/26/12
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: topdog82]
    #22233685 - 09/13/15 07:38 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

topdog82 said:
Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
I think we call things like bipolar, ADD, depression, GAD, ect. disorders.

ADD is not just being distracted. That shows how little you understand about it. There is a very long list of symptoms. I personally had to do an extended test that had at least one hundred questions and do an interview to qualify.

We all get distracted, but that does NOT mean we all have ADD. To be considered ADD you have to undergo a evaluation and have a professional follow a list of symptoms and stuff like that to be diagnosed. I am not qualified to say if someone has ADD, but I can tell you there is much more to it then being distracted.



I grew up in a fairly upper class area. at least 75% of the people I know have thier symptoms of poor attention span lineup exactly with ADHD anecdotally and 50% of that 75% has had themselves extensively evaluated by a psychiatrist. I remained unconvinced




You are not qualified to make that assessment of whether or not people have ADD.


I told you many times, there is much more to ADD then being distracted. There are symptoms of impulsivity, hyperactivity, inattention. If you have ADD you might be fidgety and squirm a lot, you might have a short fuse and have mood swings, you might not appear to be listening when people are talking to you, you might interrupt people and blurt out ideas, ect.

There are many symptoms associated with ADD and your doctor will have to test you and ask you lots of questions and assess whether or not you fit the criteria for a diagnosis, like any other mental disorder. You were misdiagnosed. I think around only like 7 or 8 percent of the population meet these symptoms.

In order to be diagnosed with bipolar, the doctor has a mental check list and if you fit those symptoms you are diagnosed.

This is how it happens with all mental disorders.



We all have mood swings, but in order to be diagnosed with bipolar you have to meet a specific criteria.


WE ALL GET DISTRACTED AND THAT IS NORMAL BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN YOU HAVE ADD. A DOCTOR WILL HAVE TO MAKE SURE YOU MEET A LIST OF SYMPTOMS AND DO A THOROUGH EVALUATION IN ORDER TO DETERMINE IF YOU ARE ADD.


--------------------
Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.




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OfflineLSDreamer
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22233697 - 09/13/15 07:41 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

It kinda sounds like he had a neuropsych assessment, which is pretty fucking extensive. I've had it done. If that's the case, he probably wasn't misdiagnosed. Do recall that all conditions present in a range of severity. It seems most likely that he was on the less severe end of the spectrum and is able to effectively manage it behaviorally. That's what seems most likely to me.


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OfflineBitter Cactus
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22233715 - 09/13/15 07:45 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Please read this topdog.


- Everyone misses social cues, but that does not mean we all have aspergers

- We all have mood swings, that does not mean everyone is bipolar

- We all get sad, does not mean we are all clinically depressed

- Lots of people are particular about particular things like being clean, but that does not mean we all have OCD

- Sometimes we isolate ourselves and don't want to hang out with friends, that does not mean we have antisocial personality disorder


In order to determine if you fit the criteria of a specific disorder, you should contact a medical professional who can do a through evaluation and decide with his years of expertise whether or not you qualify to be diagnosed with the disorder. They will assess you and decide whether or not you meet the requirements to be diagnosed.

I really hope my point is coming across.


--------------------
Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.




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OfflineLSDreamer
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22233723 - 09/13/15 07:47 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
Please read this topdog.


- Everyone misses social cues, but that does not mean we all have aspergers

- We all have mood swings, that does not mean everyone is bipolar

- We all get sad, does not mean we are all clinically depressed

- Lots of people are particular about particular things like being clean, but that does not mean we all have OCD

- Sometimes we isolate ourselves and don't want to hang out with friends, that does not mean we have antisocial personality disorder


In order to determine if you fit the criteria of a specific disorder, you should contact a medical professional who can do a through evaluation and decide with his years of expertise whether or not you qualify to be diagnosed with the disorder. They will assess you and decide whether or not you meet the requirements to be diagnosed.

I really hope my point is coming across.




Homeboy, he said he did that. Like I said, it sounds like he had a full neuropsych evaluation based on what he said. That type of testing is thorough.


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OfflineBitter Cactus
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: LSDreamer]
    #22233726 - 09/13/15 07:47 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

He said he did what?


--------------------
Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.




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OfflineLSDreamer
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22233734 - 09/13/15 07:48 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Was assessed by professionals. It sounds like he had a full neuropsych evaluation based on what he said, and that is very thorough testing.


--------------------


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OfflineBitter Cactus
reformed bad boy
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Registered: 01/26/12
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: LSDreamer]
    #22233748 - 09/13/15 07:50 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

LSDreamer said:
Was assessed by professionals. It sounds like he had a full neuropsych evaluation based on what he said, and that is very thorough testing.




For ADD or just everything in general? I must have missed it my bad. :lol:


--------------------
Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.




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Offlinespecialpeopleclub
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: LSDreamer]
    #22233753 - 09/13/15 07:52 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

The shktty professionals who thinkthey have the brains to get in your head are part of the problem. They have all been morons in my experiance, despite their 'education'. Westernmental analusis is fucking disgusting, pathetic


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InvisibleCowb0yNeal00
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #22233763 - 09/13/15 07:53 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
The shktty professionals who thinkthey have the brains to get in your head are part of the problem. They have all been morons in my experiance, despite their 'education'. Westernmental analusis is fucking disgusting, pathetic



:whathesaid:


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