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OfflineBitter Cactus
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Registered: 01/26/12
Posts: 11,773
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Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: topdog82]
    #22233040 - 09/13/15 06:09 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Oh man I just clicked the link at it was just a google search. :canthelpbutlaugh:

GIVE ME ONE STUDY SHOWING MEDITATION IS PROVEN TO TREAT OR CURE ADD AND IT IS MORE EFFECTIVE THEN MEDICATION.

You have no evidence, just anecdotes. You were misdiagnosed with ADD but your situation is not the same as people who have real ADD.


Clinical depression is different then being depressed because your dog died or your girlfriend got rammed by a bus. A doctor doing a proper diagnosis would take into consideration recent events.


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OfflineBitter Cactus
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Registered: 01/26/12
Posts: 11,773
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22233049 - 09/13/15 06:11 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Seriously though just give me one study that proves meditation is more effective then medication for treating ADD. Just one study man one study not a google search.


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Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.




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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22233050 - 09/13/15 06:11 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

lets face it. ADHD is treated with Amps. there are two routes here; the drugs or no drugs.

either way, what harm is there really behind the medicine that someone can, by all means, choose for themselves to take, if they want?


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OfflineLSDreamer
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Registered: 03/11/08
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22233069 - 09/13/15 06:14 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
Provide me clinical trials showing meditation is more effective then medication for ADD.




Meditation is no longer hippy-dippy bullshit. It's got documented benefits. It is astonishing that I am saying this. You may have noticed that I am a hardline skeptic and empiricist. I call out bullshit "alternative medicine" all the damn time. And I can attest that meditation is not bullshit.

Now, of course, being the skeptic that I am, I know that invoking my personal authority in an anecdote is not evidence. However, perhaps it is enough to get you to go research it.

Edit: I wouldn't say it's more effective. Just that it IS effective. In situations like these, all the options that can be used should. The best treatment would be both medication and meditation.


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OfflineBitter Cactus
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Registered: 01/26/12
Posts: 11,773
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22233077 - 09/13/15 06:16 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
lets face it. ADHD is treated with Amps. there are two routes here; the drugs or no drugs.

either way, what harm is there really behind the medicine that someone can, by all means, choose for themselves to take, if they want?




I agree with this. For ADD, you should be trying to manage symptoms with things like a healthy diet, exercise, meditation. I also think for a lot of people the best results are achieved with a healthy life style AND medication/ therapy.

Doctors treat a bunch of people each day. Doctors prescribe stuff, psychologists talk to you. You can go to a nutritionist to improve you diet and and meet a personal trainer to get more exercise.

Doctors assume you are doing your best to live a healthy life, and if you aren't you should always be trying to improve. But what they have at their disposal are medications and referrals to psychologists/ psychiatrists. The rest is up to you.

But ya, the most effective treatment for ADD is stimulants and it is not even close.


--------------------
Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.




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OfflineBitter Cactus
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: LSDreamer]
    #22233090 - 09/13/15 06:18 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

LSDreamer said:
Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
Provide me clinical trials showing meditation is more effective then medication for ADD.




Meditation is no longer hippy-dippy bullshit. It's got documented benefits. It is astonishing that I am saying this. You may have noticed that I am a hardline skeptic and empiricist. I call out bullshit "alternative medicine" all the damn time. And I can attest that meditation is not bullshit.

Now, of course, being the skeptic that I am, I know that invoking my personal authority in an anecdote is not evidence. However, perhaps it is enough to get you to go research it.

Edit: I wouldn't say it's more effective. Just that it IS effective. In situations like these, all the options that can be used should. The best treatment would be both medication and meditation.




I agree both meditation and medication are the best thing. Taking medication, mediating, eating healthy, going to the gym, ect. are all things you should do to improve your condition.

But ya nothing is wrong with ADD medication and it is proven to be very effective for ADD. :shrug:


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Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.




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OfflineLSDreamer
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22233100 - 09/13/15 06:19 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

If you have a serious problem, you should be seeing both a psychiatrist and a psychologist, and they should be coordinating your care. They should not be working independently. If they are, they're kinda shitty.


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OfflineBitter Cactus
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Registered: 01/26/12
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: LSDreamer]
    #22233118 - 09/13/15 06:21 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

When you go to a doctor though their job is not to tell you to be eating good food and exercising.

I am pretty sure that you are assumed to be doing your best at that. They shouldn't have to tell you every time.


--------------------
Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.




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OfflineLSDreamer
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Registered: 03/11/08
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22233133 - 09/13/15 06:24 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
When you go to a doctor though their job is not to tell you to be eating good food and exercising.

I am pretty sure that you are assumed to be doing your best at that. They shouldn't have to tell you every time.




I suppose that's somewhat true, but a good psychiatrist is not simply a pill dispenser. While medication is their primary tool, a good psychiatrist will also have a genuine interest in your self-care practices.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Registered: 08/28/09
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: Bitter Cactus] * 1
    #22233142 - 09/13/15 06:26 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
Quote:

akira_akuma said:
lets face it. ADHD is treated with Amps. there are two routes here; the drugs or no drugs.

either way, what harm is there really behind the medicine that someone can, by all means, choose for themselves to take, if they want?




I agree with this. For ADD, you should be trying to manage symptoms with things like a healthy diet, exercise, meditation. I also think for a lot of people the best results are achieved with a healthy life style AND medication/ therapy.

Doctors treat a bunch of people each day. Doctors prescribe stuff, psychologists talk to you. You can go to a nutritionist to improve you diet and and meet a personal trainer to get more exercise.

Doctors assume you are doing your best to live a healthy life, and if you aren't you should always be trying to improve. But what they have at their disposal are medications and referrals to psychologists/ psychiatrists. The rest is up to you.

But ya, the most effective treatment for ADD is stimulants and it is not even close.




sure, but what's the cure? surely all of the above simply pale in comparison to an actual cure.

but there is none. so of course medication if your symptoms are effecting your life, or alternative treatment can help, but it's not without coordination and a plan at outset that you'll get any benefit from it, but medication can at least give you motivation or concentration for those who are effected the most by ADHD. say if a kid is in school...is he suppose to regiment visits to the doctors, school, what amounts to frankly rigorous exercise for a child, and then lets suppose do his homework, eat, and well, that's an already pretty rigorous outset and day, and schedule too.

it's not likely kids have that kind of support. the point is it to relieve strain where it's needed.


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OfflineBitter Cactus
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Registered: 01/26/12
Posts: 11,773
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22233166 - 09/13/15 06:33 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Okay so we can all agree:

1. medication combined with healthy lifestyle changes are the best approach
2. ADD is real and a proper diagnosis requires being evaluated by your doctor.
3. Everyone gets anxious once in a while but we do not all have general anxiety disorder. We all get sad every once in a while but we are all not clinically depressed. We all get distracted but that does not mean we have ADD. To be diagnosed with these disorders a doctor must evaluate you and assess if the symptoms support a diagnosis and that they are adversely effecting your life.
4. Topdog does not understand modern psychiatry. Someone with severe general anxiety disorder can not just meditate and it will all go away. Lifestyle changes and different approaches combined with therapy/ medication is necessary for best results.

Anything else?


--------------------
Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.




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Invisiblebukkake
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Registered: 05/28/05
Posts: 2,764
Loc: Classified
Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: topdog82]
    #22233167 - 09/13/15 06:33 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Sure must be nice to not have ADHD and accuse others who have been diagnosed with it of faking it or lying. Then posting a video with some douchebag holding up a non-scientific book titled, "ADHD Does Not Exist." Did I miss any anything else? Not that I expect much here.


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OfflineBitter Cactus
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Registered: 01/26/12
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Loc: Alberta, Canada
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: bukkake]
    #22233184 - 09/13/15 06:36 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

He was misdiagnosed but claims because he was misdiagnosed ADD therefore does not exist.


--------------------
Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.




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OfflineLSDreamer
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Registered: 03/11/08
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22233194 - 09/13/15 06:39 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
Okay so we can all agree:

1. medication combined with healthy lifestyle changes are the best approach
2. ADD is real and a proper diagnosis requires being evaluated by your doctor.
3. Everyone gets anxious once in a while but we do not all have general anxiety disorder. We all get sad every once in a while but we are all not clinically depressed. We all get distracted but that does not mean we have ADD. To be diagnosed with these disorders a doctor must evaluate you and assess if the symptoms support a diagnosis and that they are adversely effecting your life.
4. Topdog does not understand modern psychiatry. Someone with severe general anxiety disorder can not just meditate and it will all go away. Lifestyle changes and different approaches combined with therapy/ medication is necessary for best results.

Anything else?




It took 10 pages to get to this. And there's still that one douchebag who says everyone with a mental illness is lying. :justkillmenow:


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OfflineBitter Cactus
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Registered: 01/26/12
Posts: 11,773
Loc: Alberta, Canada
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: LSDreamer]
    #22233201 - 09/13/15 06:40 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

NO GUYZ EVERY1 GETZ DISTRACTED WE ALL HAVE ADD!!!!!!!!!!


--------------------
Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.




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Offlinetopdog82
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Registered: 07/16/10
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22233277 - 09/13/15 06:49 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
Oh man I just clicked the link at it was just a google search. :canthelpbutlaugh:

GIVE ME ONE STUDY SHOWING MEDITATION IS PROVEN TO TREAT OR CURE ADD AND IT IS MORE EFFECTIVE THEN MEDICATION.

You have no evidence, just anecdotes. You were misdiagnosed with ADD but your situation is not the same as people who have real ADD.


Clinical depression is different then being depressed because your dog died or your girlfriend got rammed by a bus. A doctor doing a proper diagnosis would take into consideration recent events.



http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/124/3/e532.short
http://jad.sagepub.com/content/11/6/737.short
http://cie.asu.edu/ojs/index.php/cieatasu/article/view/1569
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD006507.pub2/abstract?userIsAuthenticated=false&deniedAccessCustomisedMessage=

Theres 4 brah. I could get a lot more. Entire books are written on this
Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
He was misdiagnosed but claims because he was misdiagnosed ADD therefore does not exist.



There was months of scans and tests that were done on me over a period of years. I have ADHD much more than you bro
what do you have? a 20 minutes discussion with a psychiatrist? its not like he was going to gain anything financially from it? Wait then again he would because he gives you speed...
Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
Okay so we can all agree:

1. medication combined with healthy lifestyle changes are the best approach
2. ADD is real and a proper diagnosis requires being evaluated by your doctor.
3. Everyone gets anxious once in a while but we do not all have general anxiety disorder. We all get sad every once in a while but we are all not clinically depressed. We all get distracted but that does not mean we have ADD. To be diagnosed with these disorders a doctor must evaluate you and assess if the symptoms support a diagnosis and that they are adversely effecting your life.
4. Topdog does not understand modern psychiatry. Someone with severe general anxiety disorder can not just meditate and it will all go away. Lifestyle changes and different approaches combined with therapy/ medication is necessary for best results.

Anything else?



No there is still 0 evidence for number 2. All you have told me is that speed helps you focus (really bro?) and that I was misdiagnosed (when I have had much more tests done on me but the top psychiatrists in the country). Also, you have told me that people who have low attention spans are correlated with a whole bunch of stuff. (no way bro?) And 1 is wrong too. Healthy lifestyle is the main approach. speed is nessacary if there are structural issues in the brain

Also, there is 0 evidence that people who have attention issues cannot simply make lifestyle changes and train their brain to be more focused and clear (via neurofeedback and meditation).


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Offlinetopdog82
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Registered: 07/16/10
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: topdog82]
    #22233296 - 09/13/15 06:50 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

BC; provide me a single shred of evidence that ADHD is an uncurable disease from birth, not simply being unable to pay attention

10 pages in...and we are yet to get a proper piece of evidence


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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: topdog82]
    #22233344 - 09/13/15 06:52 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

the fact that your thread's title espouses that ADHD doesn't exist makes me doubt your hypothesis.


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OfflineLSDreamer
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Registered: 03/11/08
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Last seen: 7 years, 8 days
Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: topdog82]
    #22233366 - 09/13/15 06:53 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

topdog82 said:
BC; provide me a single shred of evidence that ADHD is an uncurable disease from birth, not simply being unable to pay attention

10 pages in...and we are yet to get a proper piece of evidence




Dude, you're practically getting into epistimology now, and it's just not useful. I kinda thought we pretty much resolved this, but apparently not. There is a cluster of symptoms associated with AD(H)D. You seem to mainly contest whether or not this cluster of symptoms should be called a "disease" or not.

Let me ask you a question: If you terminated your self-care practices, whatever they are, would your symptoms return?


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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: ADHD does not exist... [Re: LSDreamer]
    #22233408 - 09/13/15 06:55 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

LSDreamer said:
Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
When you go to a doctor though their job is not to tell you to be eating good food and exercising.

I am pretty sure that you are assumed to be doing your best at that. They shouldn't have to tell you every time.




I suppose that's somewhat true, but a good psychiatrist is not simply a pill dispenser. While medication is their primary tool, a good psychiatrist will also have a genuine interest in your self-care practices.



Well yes. They should. Taking speed to solve life's issues before trying the more basic things such as eating and sleeping properly is an issue

Patient: "I have trouble focusing. I eat fried chicken every meal, drink 4 nights a week, pop molly, have 6 different social networks, smoke weed everyday, and dont go class"
Doctor: "here have some speed. Its called ADHD"
Patient: "Gee thanks! This is a smart long term plan for the rest of my life"


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