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hostileuniverse
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Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: airclay]
#22355711 - 10/09/15 06:28 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Do you people really not see that developing third world countries is actually a GOOD thing?
They have jobs and the infrastructure that will provide a better life for generations to come, how the fuck that's exploitation, I'll never understand...
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Buying a cities water supply, treating it with addictive drugs, and selling it back to them for a profit is definitely a form of exploitation.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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hostileuniverse
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said: Buying a cities water supply, treating it with addictive drugs, and selling it back to them for a profit is definitely a form of exploitation.
America started out as a third world country, maybe not how we think of them today, but it did, and we had some growing pains .. And look at us now!
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airclay
Morbid and Wrong




Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 2,788
Loc: Texas
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it's not cause those infrastructures are paid for usually through govt projects publicly funded and then made to exclude the poorer working class that is exploited through low to no benefits and exploitative pay/hours/safety.
and is it really a good thing to allow corps to come in and hold them legally hostage to protect their profits under the threat of leaving (much akin to what they do here in the US w taxes). Large factories in places that don't have the systems to properly maintain pollution and wastes?
and even to concede that, it's absolutely illogical to think that the things you're describing wouldn't be superior w a wealthier and more educated working class
-------------------- Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!
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airclay
Morbid and Wrong




Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 2,788
Loc: Texas
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
paperbackwriter said: Buying a cities water supply, treating it with addictive drugs, and selling it back to them for a profit is definitely a form of exploitation.
America started out as a third world country, maybe not how we think of them today, but it did, and we had some growing pains .. And look at us now!
yes we exploited native americans, african americans, chinese immigrants to build it and have sinced moved onto our own poor, pinning the same strawmen on them.
yaaaaaaaay slaves and lies, we're here, we're number 1, crumbling slowly but yaaaaaaaaay we did it
-------------------- Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!
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hostileuniverse
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Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: airclay]
#22355805 - 10/09/15 06:45 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
airclay said: it's not cause those infrastructures are paid for usually through govt projects publicly funded and then made to exclude the poorer working class that is exploited through low to no benefits and exploitative pay/hours/safety.
and is it really a good thing to allow corps to come in and hold them legally hostage to protect their profits under the threat of leaving (much akin to what they do here in the US w taxes). Large factories in places that don't have the systems to properly maintain pollution and wastes?
and even to concede that, it's absolutely illogical to think that the things you're describing wouldn't be superior w a wealthier and more educated working class
True enough, but we all don't start out at the top, hell, look at China 50 years ago and look at it today, by allowing capitalism to thrive, more and more people are lifted up out of poverty, nowadays GM sells more Cadillacs in China than they do in the US...
If you're fresh outta high school, do you go and apply for a manager job? Nope, you start out bussing or waitressing or dishwashing and WORK your way up... I just don't see how that's a bad thing
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hostileuniverse
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Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: airclay]
#22355811 - 10/09/15 06:47 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
airclay said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
paperbackwriter said: Buying a cities water supply, treating it with addictive drugs, and selling it back to them for a profit is definitely a form of exploitation.
America started out as a third world country, maybe not how we think of them today, but it did, and we had some growing pains .. And look at us now!
yes we exploited native americans, african americans, chinese immigrants to build it and have sinced moved onto our own poor, pinning the same strawmen on them.
yaaaaaaaay slaves and lies, we're here, we're number 1, crumbling slowly but yaaaaaaaaay we did it
Then you should move to Venezuela, equal misery for everyone! You can wait in line for toilet paper just like everyone else, ain't equality grand?!?!?!
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airclay
Morbid and Wrong




Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 2,788
Loc: Texas
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^has nothing to do w/ my point, unless of course you're endorsing the atrocities committed against the above listed minorities as acceptable building blocks in society?
and venezuela is a failed dictatorship?
-------------------- Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!
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Stonehenge
Alt Center

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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I hear all this talk about exploitation but what does it mean? If a company moves to a backward country and starts offering jobs at the prevailing wage, the usual suspects start wailing and crying about exploitation. Meanwhile, the workers don't agree with that, they are glad to get the jobs even if they pay $1 an hour. That beats the 25 cents an hour they might make scrounging for firewood or sweeping walks. Soon their standard of living goes up.
What most leftists don't understand is that profit is not a bad thing, it does not mean stealing or cheating. Without profit no one has a motive to open a factory or store and provide jobs. Many new businesses fail and the owners lose lots of money. But when they succeed, then the commie wannabes cry about the fact they are making money and "exploiting" workers. I guess people out of work aren't being exploited... but many of them would like to be.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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airclay
Morbid and Wrong




Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 2,788
Loc: Texas
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
airclay said: it's not cause those infrastructures are paid for usually through govt projects publicly funded and then made to exclude the poorer working class that is exploited through low to no benefits and exploitative pay/hours/safety.
and is it really a good thing to allow corps to come in and hold them legally hostage to protect their profits under the threat of leaving (much akin to what they do here in the US w taxes). Large factories in places that don't have the systems to properly maintain pollution and wastes?
and even to concede that, it's absolutely illogical to think that the things you're describing wouldn't be superior w a wealthier and more educated working class
True enough, but we all don't start out at the top, hell, look at China 50 years ago and look at it today, by allowing capitalism to thrive, more and more people are lifted up out of poverty, nowadays GM sells more Cadillacs in China than they do in the US...
If you're fresh outta high school, do you go and apply for a manager job? Nope, you start out bussing or waitressing or dishwashing and WORK your way up... I just don't see how that's a bad thing
but you have to make enough to live. if you give forty hours a week to your employer to help grow and sustain that business, the least in return could expect is a living wage. not one that leaves you short or stretched thin every month. I feel the need to insert here that no one has the right to judge the economics or human experience of another. So you pay them a fair wage that allows them to feed, clothe and educate their children who may grow to become the white collar workers you describe.
also china is very state controlled so nah
-------------------- Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!
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hostileuniverse
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Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: airclay]
#22355859 - 10/09/15 06:57 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
airclay said: ^has nothing to do w/ my point, unless of course you're endorsing the atrocities committed against the above listed minorities as acceptable building blocks in society?
and venezuela is a failed dictatorship?
My point is libs seems intent on blaming past atrocities on current businessman, that's dumb, IMO
bUilding up a third world country is a noble effort, not exploitation, do they use cheap labor? Of course, but it's a win win for everyone, we get cheaply made goods and a destitute people get a chance to feed their families, build thier infrastructure and enrich their nation...
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hostileuniverse
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Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: Stonehenge]
#22355869 - 10/09/15 06:59 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: I hear all this talk about exploitation but what does it mean? If a company moves to a backward country and starts offering jobs at the prevailing wage, the usual suspects start wailing and crying about exploitation. Meanwhile, the workers don't agree with that, they are glad to get the jobs even if they pay $1 an hour. That beats the 25 cents an hour they might make scrounging for firewood or sweeping walks. Soon their standard of living goes up.
What most leftists don't understand is that profit is not a bad thing, it does not mean stealing or cheating. Without profit no one has a motive to open a factory or store and provide jobs. Many new businesses fail and the owners lose lots of money. But when they succeed, then the commie wannabes cry about the fact they are making money and "exploiting" workers. I guess people out of work aren't being exploited... but many of them would like to be.
BINGO!
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airclay
Morbid and Wrong




Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 2,788
Loc: Texas
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
airclay said: ^has nothing to do w/ my point, unless of course you're endorsing the atrocities committed against the above listed minorities as acceptable building blocks in society?
and venezuela is a failed dictatorship?
My point is libs seems intent on blaming past atrocities on current businessman, that's dumb, IMO
bUilding up a third world country is a noble effort, not exploitation, do they use cheap labor? Of course, but it's a win win for everyone, we get cheaply made goods and a destitute people get a chance to feed their families, build thier infrastructure and enrich their nation...
a win win for who? you totally speak for and assume what the working class wants. In reality the opposite has been shown to play out.
if you're ok exploiting others for your personal comfort that's your deal but just understand that what "do they use cheap labor? Of course, but it's a win win for everyone, we get cheaply made goods", like definition case. Your ideas abt the fairness and how it actually place out are not based in reality but merely your expectation that others are less than and should be happy to slave so you can live a more privileged life.
-------------------- Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!
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Stonehenge
Alt Center

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: airclay]
#22355945 - 10/09/15 07:13 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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> if you give forty hours a week to your employer to help grow and sustain that business, the least in return could expect is a living wage. not one that leaves you short or stretched thin every month
That depends. If the person's only skills are basic manual labor like sweeping floors or carrying stuff around, why should they get enough to live in luxury? Because that is what you are really talking about isn't it? You think cable, a cell phone, wide screen tv, nice car, ac are all necessities. I have news for you, many people live just fine without any of those things.
The person who graduated from college, maybe got an advanced degree, has experience and does a good job should and will get a good wage. Not so much the grunt who has few if any skills. Let him live in a trailer and do without luxuries. Our poor live better than most of the rest of the world.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
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Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: airclay]
#22355962 - 10/09/15 07:15 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
airclay said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
airclay said: it's not cause those infrastructures are paid for usually through govt projects publicly funded and then made to exclude the poorer working class that is exploited through low to no benefits and exploitative pay/hours/safety.
and is it really a good thing to allow corps to come in and hold them legally hostage to protect their profits under the threat of leaving (much akin to what they do here in the US w taxes). Large factories in places that don't have the systems to properly maintain pollution and wastes?
and even to concede that, it's absolutely illogical to think that the things you're describing wouldn't be superior w a wealthier and more educated working class
True enough, but we all don't start out at the top, hell, look at China 50 years ago and look at it today, by allowing capitalism to thrive, more and more people are lifted up out of poverty, nowadays GM sells more Cadillacs in China than they do in the US...
If you're fresh outta high school, do you go and apply for a manager job? Nope, you start out bussing or waitressing or dishwashing and WORK your way up... I just don't see how that's a bad thing
but you have to make enough to live. if you give forty hours a week to your employer to help grow and sustain that business, the least in return could expect is a living wage. not one that leaves you short or stretched thin every month. I feel the need to insert here that no one has the right to judge the economics or human experience of another. So you pay them a fair wage that allows them to feed, clothe and educate their children who may grow to become the white collar workers you describe.
also china is very state controlled so nah
"pay them a fair wage that allows them to feed, clothe and educate their children"
Why should a employer have to compensate enough for a worker and his CHILDREN? That's too much to expect. He didn't ask his employee to have children.
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
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Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: airclay]
#22355979 - 10/09/15 07:19 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
airclay said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
airclay said: ^has nothing to do w/ my point, unless of course you're endorsing the atrocities committed against the above listed minorities as acceptable building blocks in society?
and venezuela is a failed dictatorship?
My point is libs seems intent on blaming past atrocities on current businessman, that's dumb, IMO
bUilding up a third world country is a noble effort, not exploitation, do they use cheap labor? Of course, but it's a win win for everyone, we get cheaply made goods and a destitute people get a chance to feed their families, build thier infrastructure and enrich their nation...
a win win for who? you totally speak for and assume what the working class wants. In reality the opposite has been shown to play out.
if you're ok exploiting others for your personal comfort that's your deal but just understand that what "do they use cheap labor? Of course, but it's a win win for everyone, we get cheaply made goods", like definition case. Your ideas abt the fairness and how it actually place out are not based in reality but merely your expectation that others are less than and should be happy to slave so you can live a more privileged life.
Well let's explore this phrase, "exploitation"
Is it exploitive to take over 50% of someone's earnings to give it to someone who isn't working at all? The American worker has been exploited, by its govt, who has usurped their income and spent it foolishly...
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airclay
Morbid and Wrong




Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 2,788
Loc: Texas
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I know a living wage might be hard to grasp if it's a new idea to you but here's some reading for y'all to understand it better to argue against a living wage for all humans working forty hours a week is purely judgmental hang-ups of of your own.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_wage http://livingwage.mit.edu/
-------------------- Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



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Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: airclay]
#22356028 - 10/09/15 07:31 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
airclay said: I know a living wage might be hard to grasp if it's a new idea to you but here's some reading for y'all to understand it better to argue against a living wage for all humans working forty hours a week is purely judgmental hang-ups of of your own.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_wage http://livingwage.mit.edu/
I've never argued against the living wage, I mean, it is a third world country, and I've spent time in. Them and can see what the actual costs are
As for here, what good is a living wage if the govt takes most of it?
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,347
Last seen: 1 hour, 50 minutes
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Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: Stonehenge]
#22356047 - 10/09/15 07:36 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: I hear all this talk about exploitation but what does it mean? If a company moves to a backward country and starts offering jobs at the prevailing wage, the usual suspects start wailing and crying about exploitation. Meanwhile, the workers don't agree with that, they are glad to get the jobs even if they pay $1 an hour. That beats the 25 cents an hour they might make scrounging for firewood or sweeping walks. Soon their standard of living goes up.
What most leftists don't understand is that profit is not a bad thing, it does not mean stealing or cheating. Without profit no one has a motive to open a factory or store and provide jobs. Many new businesses fail and the owners lose lots of money. But when they succeed, then the commie wannabes cry about the fact they are making money and "exploiting" workers. I guess people out of work aren't being exploited... but many of them would like to be.
You're not wrong. Although the conditions of some of these workers are often times unsettling. Like the walmart factories with nets around them to catch people attempting suicide.
Regardless, as I said, you are correct, it does raise their standard of living in the long run. It raises their standard of living at the expense of American jobs. This is something that some people support, but I do not. We need to get rid of free trade deals, and deincentivize companies from moving offshore.
The solution is not to reduce American wages to those of 3rd world countries in order to remain competitive.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
Edited by Bigbadwooof (10/09/15 07:37 PM)
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,347
Last seen: 1 hour, 50 minutes
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said: Buying a cities water supply, treating it with addictive drugs, and selling it back to them for a profit is definitely a form of exploitation.
Whoa... what are you talking about? I've never heard of anyone doing this.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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