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InvisibleBoldAsLove
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Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 2,549
Loc: Kanto Region
Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: Stonehenge] * 2
    #22227870 - 09/12/15 04:34 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
>They aren't bums, they are refugees. There is a MASSIVE difference. Those who are fleeing have done nothing to deserve the massive cluster fuck they are living in.

And... what is your point? I can show you people living in much worse conditions all over the globe. Where are your tears for the Chinese peasants forced to work 80 hours a week for slave wages and to breath polluted air, drink polluted water, the people in yemen your hero is supplying cluster bombs to use on, literally millions in many countries.

Are we supposed to rush to the rescue of everyone on earth who is having trouble? Why is it you say nothing about our poor and homeless? Why don't you care about them? The fact is that we can not even solve our own problems let alone those of the entire world. Since the msm is focusing on that particular group, naturally you are all concerned about them. If Africa gets the spotlight then they are on your mind. Try to think for yourself now and then.

If we could solve everyone's problems then I'd say go for it but to pick and choose and particularly when it means passing over our own needy, I have to say no. Charity begins at home.




You raise valid points, but you need to understand the difference between living in a war zone and living in a poor country and living poor in a rich country. They don't compare.

I can speak to this directly as my family was forced to flee during the Yugoslav wars. During a war, you don't have food, water, electricity, heat, and often times, even a roof and walls. You live in constant fear of shelling, snipers, mines, and explosives. People are vile. They do unspeakable things, tortures and rapes that defy imagination. Innocent people aren't collateral damage, they are purposely targeted. Your aggressors build fear by destroying everything, especially the populace's hearts and minds. Your day to day life is entirely built around survival. You fashion tools out of whatever you can find, survive on measly rations (if you are lucky enough to have them at all) and try to avoid the violence that surrounds you. You aren't just poor, you are a moving target.

These people aren't fleeing because they are tired of being poor. They are fleeing because the life they live in Syria isn't a style of living. Thousands have died making the crossing, and yet they still try to make it.

You are absolutely right that there are situations causing suffering all over the world, but the crisis in Iraq and Syria is amongst the worst. We should absolutely do more to help our homeless population, but that demands a complex and long-term solution. Right now there are thousands upon thousands of desperate people who just need a home, and as the United States has the means to help them, they absolutely should.

And given that this is a country with a population of over 300 million, allowing 10,000 refugees to enter (less than 0.005%) of our population isn't going to significantly affect the citizens living here. They aren't going to collapse the economy or health care system or anything like that. Many of them are educated and all of them are willing to work. I don't see why we would refuse to help these people who so desperately need it and have done nothing wrong.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #22227925 - 09/12/15 04:49 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

>We should absolutely do more to help our homeless population, but that demands a complex and long-term solution.

Its nice that you devote a few words for our own poor and suffering. Of course you put in a "but..." meaning forget them.

>Right now there are thousands upon thousands of desperate people who just need a home, and as the United States has the means to help them, they absolutely should.

That does not follow. FIRST, we take care of our own and if there is anything left over then we can think about helping other refugees, bums, those fleeing wars, fleeing poverty, etc. I'm sorry but your concept of kicking our people to the curb and helping foreigners does not fly. Its pie in the sky thinking like that which has gotten us to the point of bankruptcy. That and idiot waging war all over the map.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisibleBoldAsLove
Pokemon Master


Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 2,549
Loc: Kanto Region
Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: Stonehenge] * 2
    #22227964 - 09/12/15 04:56 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
>We should absolutely do more to help our homeless population, but that demands a complex and long-term solution.

Its nice that you devote a few words for our own poor and suffering. Of course you put in a "but..." meaning forget them.

>Right now there are thousands upon thousands of desperate people who just need a home, and as the United States has the means to help them, they absolutely should.

That does not follow. FIRST, we take care of our own and if there is anything left over then we can think about helping other refugees, bums, those fleeing wars, fleeing poverty, etc. I'm sorry but your concept of kicking our people to the curb and helping foreigners does not fly. Its pie in the sky thinking like that which has gotten us to the point of bankruptcy. That and idiot waging war all over the map.




I'm not ignoring the homeless crisis in this country. Something absolutely needs to be done about it, but it isn't an easy fix. I would love to be able to provide homes and jobs for the 3.5 million people who are homeless each year, but it isn't feasible. But allowing 10,000 people to simply enter the country is not hard. You act like letting the refugees in is somehow going to harm our own poor or prevent us from helping them. That isn't true, we can and should do both.

And I want to point out once again, that being homeless in this country does not compare to what's happening in Syria. I think if people were more aware of the suffering that these refugees have experienced, they would be more welcoming.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #22228007 - 09/12/15 05:05 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

> I would love to be able to provide homes and jobs for the 3.5 million people who are homeless each year, but it isn't feasible.

Neither is it feasible to support the millions of illegals we have now let alone the tens of thousands obumble wants to bring in on top of that.

>But allowing 10,000 people to simply enter the country is not hard. You act like letting the refugees in is somehow going to harm our own poor or prevent us from helping them. That isn't true, we can and should do both.

We all know the 10k is just the camel's nose under the tent, there will be no limit on how many come in while the jackass still has some power. I know it and even you know it though you will deny.

I have news for you, we are not in recovery, we still have less of our work force employed than ever before in the last 38 years, and things will get worse. We may flee to Canada if they are dumb enough to let us in and if people are dumb enough to go there. Our manufacturing has gone offshore due to the dems and idiots policies. We have over $18T in debt. Send all your cash to random refugees that you want to but keep your mitts off my wallet.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisibleBoldAsLove
Pokemon Master


Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 2,549
Loc: Kanto Region
Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: Stonehenge] * 1
    #22228068 - 09/12/15 05:15 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I hope to god that if you are ever in the situation that these refugees are in, that someone helps you out. You'll definitely need it.
Quote:

Stonehenge said:
> I would love to be able to provide homes and jobs for the 3.5 million people who are homeless each year, but it isn't feasible.

Neither is it feasible to support the millions of illegals we have now let alone the tens of thousands obumble wants to bring in on top of that.






Two different issues. The immigrants here illegally are a strain on our system and something has to be done about it. If you aren't a citizen and don't/haven't paid taxes, you shouldn't get the government's help. Unless of course you are fleeing some of the worst living conditions known to man and our government can help you without much extra burden.

Quote:


>But allowing 10,000 people to simply enter the country is not hard. You act like letting the refugees in is somehow going to harm our own poor or prevent us from helping them. That isn't true, we can and should do both.

We all know the 10k is just the camel's nose under the tent, there will be no limit on how many come in while the jackass still has some power. I know it and even you know it though you will deny.





As I've said before, I hope we welcome far more than 10,000 refugees. I hope we do all we can to help this situation. And I hope that if you ever find yourself in their situation, someone helps you too. You'll absolutely need it.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.


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OfflineWAN
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Registered: 10/20/14
Posts: 1,895
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #22228084 - 09/12/15 05:19 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

BoldAsLove said:
Quote:

Stonehenge said:
>We should absolutely do more to help our homeless population, but that demands a complex and long-term solution.

Its nice that you devote a few words for our own poor and suffering. Of course you put in a "but..." meaning forget them.

>Right now there are thousands upon thousands of desperate people who just need a home, and as the United States has the means to help them, they absolutely should.

That does not follow. FIRST, we take care of our own and if there is anything left over then we can think about helping other refugees, bums, those fleeing wars, fleeing poverty, etc. I'm sorry but your concept of kicking our people to the curb and helping foreigners does not fly. Its pie in the sky thinking like that which has gotten us to the point of bankruptcy. That and idiot waging war all over the map.




I'm not ignoring the homeless crisis in this country. Something absolutely needs to be done about it, but it isn't an easy fix. I would love to be able to provide homes and jobs for the 3.5 million people who are homeless each year, but it isn't feasible. But allowing 10,000 people to simply enter the country is not hard. You act like letting the refugees in is somehow going to harm our own poor or prevent us from helping them. That isn't true, we can and should do both.

And I want to point out once again, that being homeless in this country does not compare to what's happening in Syria. I think if people were more aware of the suffering that these refugees have experienced, they would be more welcoming.




It is NOT the US's responsibility to help the world's downtrodden.  If you have such a big heart, why don't you open YOUR OWN HOME to some of the refugees.

p.s. are you a slav?


Edited by WAN (09/12/15 05:20 PM)


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OfflineWAN
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Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #22228115 - 09/12/15 05:26 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

BoldAsLove said:
Quote:

Stonehenge said:
>They aren't bums, they are refugees. There is a MASSIVE difference. Those who are fleeing have done nothing to deserve the massive cluster fuck they are living in.

And... what is your point? I can show you people living in much worse conditions all over the globe. Where are your tears for the Chinese peasants forced to work 80 hours a week for slave wages and to breath polluted air, drink polluted water, the people in yemen your hero is supplying cluster bombs to use on, literally millions in many countries.

Are we supposed to rush to the rescue of everyone on earth who is having trouble? Why is it you say nothing about our poor and homeless? Why don't you care about them? The fact is that we can not even solve our own problems let alone those of the entire world. Since the msm is focusing on that particular group, naturally you are all concerned about them. If Africa gets the spotlight then they are on your mind. Try to think for yourself now and then.

If we could solve everyone's problems then I'd say go for it but to pick and choose and particularly when it means passing over our own needy, I have to say no. Charity begins at home.



Many of them are educated and all of them are willing to work.




sounds to me like they would take work from Americans.


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22228120 - 09/12/15 05:27 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

>Send all your cash to random refugees that you want to but keep your mitts off my wallet

This, exemplifies the absurdity of liberal, progressive, socialist ideology... The very people who tout these high taxation policies for the "greater good", have no problem themselves using tax loopholes and havens to their own advantage. If they were genuine, they'd volunteer 60, 70, 80, or even 90% of their income. The federal govt wouldn't turn it down...

Take bill gates for example, donating half his wealth to his own charity, why? So he could control where it's spent of course, he knows that if he just wrote a check to federal govt, that money would be wasted, proving once again the private sector manages money much better than the govt...


--------------------
http://www.countdowntotrump.com





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OfflineWAN
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Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22228158 - 09/12/15 05:34 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Helping refugees is not a government's job.  Governments are only meant to collect taxes from their people and then use these monies to provide services and infrastructure for these very same people.

Helping the world's refugees, while it sounds lofty, should not be forced upon a nation's population.  It should be a private event.  Let people freely and voluntarily donate their money to it.


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InvisibleBoldAsLove
Pokemon Master


Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 2,549
Loc: Kanto Region
Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: WAN] * 1
    #22228205 - 09/12/15 05:43 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

WAN said:
It is NOT the US's responsibility to help the world's downtrodden.  If you have such a big heart, why don't you open YOUR OWN HOME to some of the refugees.

p.s. are you a slav?




You are correct, but I'm not saying the US should help out of responsibility. The US should help out of compassion for the millions of people who are immensely suffering.

Yes, I am a slav.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.


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OfflineWAN
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Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #22228224 - 09/12/15 05:45 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

BoldAsLove said:
Quote:

WAN said:
It is NOT the US's responsibility to help the world's downtrodden.  If you have such a big heart, why don't you open YOUR OWN HOME to some of the refugees.

p.s. are you a slav?




You are correct, but I'm not saying the US should help out of responsibility. The US should help out of compassion for the millions of people who are immensely suffering.




It is not the job of the US government to help non-citizens, whether it's out of compassion or responsibility.

Also, you didnt answer my question.  Are you opening your home to these refugees?  Most likely you aren't.  sounds to me you are big on spending other peoples money.


Edited by WAN (09/12/15 05:48 PM)


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InvisibleBoldAsLove
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Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 2,549
Loc: Kanto Region
Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: WAN] * 1
    #22228299 - 09/12/15 05:58 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

WAN said:
Quote:

BoldAsLove said:
Quote:

WAN said:
It is NOT the US's responsibility to help the world's downtrodden.  If you have such a big heart, why don't you open YOUR OWN HOME to some of the refugees.

p.s. are you a slav?




You are correct, but I'm not saying the US should help out of responsibility. The US should help out of compassion for the millions of people who are immensely suffering.




It is not the job of the US government to help non-citizens, whether it's out of compassion or responsibility.

Also, you didnt answer my question.  Are you opening your home to these refugees?  Most likely you aren't.  sounds to me you are big on spending other peoples money.




No, it isn't the government's job, but I would hope they do it anyways. People in the US and the West live an incredibly coddled life. They don't understand how bad things get, so they complain and bitch about people who are trying to escape the worst situations on earth. If you knew what these refugees were going through I bet you'd be more compassionate.

I would absolutely open my home to a refugee if he/she needed it. I'm not allowed to sublet though, so it would have to be temporary, but they could certainly take refuge here.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.


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OfflineWAN
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Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #22228315 - 09/12/15 06:01 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

BoldAsLove said:
Quote:

WAN said:
Quote:

BoldAsLove said:
Quote:

WAN said:
It is NOT the US's responsibility to help the world's downtrodden.  If you have such a big heart, why don't you open YOUR OWN HOME to some of the refugees.

p.s. are you a slav?




You are correct, but I'm not saying the US should help out of responsibility. The US should help out of compassion for the millions of people who are immensely suffering.




It is not the job of the US government to help non-citizens, whether it's out of compassion or responsibility.

Also, you didnt answer my question.  Are you opening your home to these refugees?  Most likely you aren't.  sounds to me you are big on spending other peoples money.




No, it isn't the government's job, but I would hope they do it anyways. People in the US and the West live an incredibly coddled life. They don't understand how bad things get, so they complain and bitch about people who are trying to escape the worst situations on earth. If you knew what these refugees were going through I bet you'd be more compassionate.

I would absolutely open my home to a refugee if he/she needed it. I'm not allowed to sublet though, so it would have to be temporary, but they could certainly take refuge here.




One cannot help the whole world's poor/downtrodden/the refugees.  Sometimes, these people have to realize that they shouldn't fuck up their own countries.


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InvisibleBoldAsLove
Pokemon Master


Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 2,549
Loc: Kanto Region
Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: WAN] * 2
    #22228332 - 09/12/15 06:05 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

They didn't. The people fucking up the country are not the same people fleeing the country. The people who are in this situation have done absolutely nothing to deserve the situation they were thrown in. Their suffering is nothing more than a product of the country they were born into.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.


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OfflineWAN
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Posts: 1,895
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #22228344 - 09/12/15 06:08 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

BoldAsLove said:
They didn't. The people fucking up the country are not the same people fleeing the country. The people who are in this situation have done absolutely nothing to deserve the situation they were thrown in. Their suffering is nothing more than a product of the country they were born into.



this is correct.  However, I still stand by my statement that one cannot help the whole world's downtrodden.


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InvisibleBoldAsLove
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Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 2,549
Loc: Kanto Region
Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: WAN] * 1
    #22228370 - 09/12/15 06:15 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

True, but we can help some. Do you suggest we refuse to help those who fleeing a war-torn country simply because we can't help everyone?


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #22228376 - 09/12/15 06:17 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

>Do you suggest we refuse to help those who fleeing a war-torn country simply because we can't help everyone?

Why should we help them and not others? Why should we help anyone if we can't take care of our own? Yes we should refuse and rightly so.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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InvisibleBoldAsLove
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Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 2,549
Loc: Kanto Region
Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: Stonehenge] * 2
    #22228392 - 09/12/15 06:20 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

We should help them because of the situation they are in. A situation I'm pretty sure you can't even fathom. These people who are fleeing have had some of the world's worst lives in the last months. They have lived much worse lives than our homeless and worse lives than most of the world's poor. Living in a war zone is not the same as being poor.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.


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OfflineWAN
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Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #22228406 - 09/12/15 06:22 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Where do you draw the line though?  When is "enough" enough?


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InvisibleBoldAsLove
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Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 2,549
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Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: WAN] * 1
    #22228425 - 09/12/15 06:27 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

You don't have to draw a line if you aren't close to it. Letting in 10,000 refugees is something we have the means to do without any really noticeable impact to our country. It isn't close to the enough is enough line.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.


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