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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: qman]
#22268409 - 09/21/15 08:31 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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qman said: The "left wingers" don't understand the economics of the situation, the MSM doesn't spoon fed them the reality of how it harms their standard of living.
Every liberal that has made the argument that illegals doesn't harm US workers has demonstrated their ignorance, I've been told by many of this site that without them I wouldn't be able to afford lettuce. 
I've told you many times that immigrants, like it or not, are currently part of our economy. Other posters have told you that they can't get U.S. workers to work as hard as immigrants on construction job sites.
You claim we don't understand economics while your own understanding boils down too...
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 2 hours, 6 minutes
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said:
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qman said: The "left wingers" don't understand the economics of the situation, the MSM doesn't spoon fed them the reality of how it harms their standard of living.
Every liberal that has made the argument that illegals doesn't harm US workers has demonstrated their ignorance, I've been told by many of this site that without them I wouldn't be able to afford lettuce. 
I've told you many times that immigrants, like it or not, are currently part of our economy. Other posters have told you that they can't get U.S. workers to work as hard as immigrants on construction job sites.
"they can't get U.S. workers to work as hard as immigrants"
It's not about work ethic, it's about WAGES, US workers aren't going to do hard work for a low wage that a illegal will, that's the reality of the situation. Illegals drive wages LOWER, thank you for proving my point once again. 
Why do we have US workers doing hard jobs today? Because they're getting fairly compensated!!
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Astral Pain
Strange

Registered: 11/10/14
Posts: 2,923
Loc: Chicago
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Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: qman]
#22268510 - 09/21/15 09:12 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Russia military backing for Syria counterproductive: Kerry
http://news.yahoo.com/us-85-000-refugees-2016-100-000-2017-165422619.html
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"We will now go up to 85,000 with at least 10,000 over the next year in Syria specifically. And in the next fiscal year we will target 100,000," Kerry said.
Four out of five migrants are NOT from Syria: EU figures expose the 'lie' that the majority of refugees are fleeing war zone
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3240010/Number-refugees-arriving-Europe-soars-85-year-just-one-five-war-torn-Syria.html
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Only one in every five migrants claiming asylum in Europe is from Syria.
The EU logged 213,000 arrivals in April, May and June but only 44,000 of them were fleeing the Syrian civil war.
Campaigners and left-wing MPs have suggested the vast majority of migrants are from the war-torn state, accusing the Government of doing too little to help them.
'This exposes the lie peddled in some quarters that vast numbers of those reaching Europe are from Syria,' said David Davies, Tory MP for Monmouth. 'Most people who are escaping the war will go to camps in Lebanon or Jordan.
'Many of those who have opted to risk their lives to come to Europe have done so for economic reasons.'
-------------------- "I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out" -Bill Hicks-
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22268514 - 09/21/15 09:13 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Bigbadwooof said:
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hostileuniverse said:
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Capitalism has failed more times than socialism, and it's always blaming 'regulation' or socialism or whatever. You're flat out wrong and lying with this post. It is the other way around. Everyone's been chearleading Capitalism for centuries, and ignoring its many shortcomings.
Tell me what you blame for the Great Depression, and for this recession we're in?
America is a Capitalist country, and always has been. Capitalism is destined to fail, over and over and over again, and then find a scapegoat, always. What you need to do is turn off the Alex Jones, and go read a fucking book. When are you people going to wake up.
Let's see, before capitalism, you mostly had kings and queens, an elite ruling class, was that better? Fact is, capitalism has lifted more people out of poverty than any socialist program. Let's look at the "war on poverty", what has it really done? We still have virtually the same number, percentage wise, of poor that we had then, after spending 20 Trillion dollars...
America hasn't been a capitalist country for decades... Sure, we have some parts that resemble it. SSI, Medicare, Medicaid, Obamacare, welfare, forcing banks to make bad loans, over regulation of industry, once you start "socializing" your economy, you no longer have a capitalistic economy...
Wait a minute. You think we have a 'war on poverty' here in the US, and you think we've spent 20 trillin dollars fighting that war? I wish I had time to respond to this ridiculous post, but I'll have to save it for later.
You're right, that 20 trillion number was wrong, as of 2012, we have spent 22 Trillion, that was three years ago... I can only wonder what it's up to now... I'll wait for your rebuttal...
http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2014/09/the-war-on-poverty-after-50-years
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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paperbackwriter said: Other posters have told you that they can't get U.S. workers to work as hard as immigrants on construction job sites.
Why would they when they can get by without doing so? Benefits for not working are far too high.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
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paperbackwriter said: Other posters have told you that they can't get U.S. workers to work as hard as immigrants on construction job sites.
Why would they when they can get by without doing so? Benefits for not working are far too high.
I agree. Illegal immigrants are simply hungrier than their U.S. counterparts. I also agree with qman that fairer wages would encourage more U.S. workers to seek out employment.
However, where I disagree is that immigrants are to blame for either one of these. I'm not saying we should let in more illegals and flood the job market. I am saying that there's many people here that already live here and that our immigration policies make it very hard to become a citizen.
That's what liberals mean by a path to citizenship. Why kick out all the hard workers when they've built lives here and our economy is already reliant on them?
Yeah, yeah, because they're here illegally. Well I can't help but find irony in the contrast between what you guys say and where you guys say it.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,369
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 29 minutes, 42 seconds
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Taking notes on public debt from the Heritage Institute?
Next, we can learn about concussions from the NFL and the safety of oxycontin from Bayer.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Our policies should make it even more difficult to become a citizen. At the least immigrants should be required to: 1. Have at minimum years worth of funds to live on while seeking employment. 2. Know at least a minimum amount of English.
Illegals do share the blame, but no... it's not theirs alone.
Illegals, whatever the reason they are illegals, should never receive American citizenship. You 'kick' them out precisely for the reason you wrote... they're here illegally. No better reason than that need exist, though they do.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 2 hours, 6 minutes
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said:
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luvdemshrooms said:
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paperbackwriter said: Other posters have told you that they can't get U.S. workers to work as hard as immigrants on construction job sites.
Why would they when they can get by without doing so? Benefits for not working are far too high.
I agree. Illegal immigrants are simply hungrier than their U.S. counterparts. I also agree with qman that fairer wages would encourage more U.S. workers to seek out employment.
However, where I disagree is that immigrants are to blame for either one of these. I'm not saying we should let in more illegals and flood the job market. I am saying that there's many people here that already live here and that our immigration policies make it very hard to become a citizen.
That's what liberals mean by a path to citizenship. Why kick out all the hard workers when they've built lives here and our economy is already reliant on them?
Yeah, yeah, because they're here illegally. Well I can't help but find irony in the contrast between what you guys say and where you guys say it.
"disagree is that illegals are to blame"
Having more workers chase fewer jobs lowers wages, so yes illegals are partially responsible for the lack of wage growth.
They are also responsible for fewer US citizens having jobs, so once again they are responsible for the higher unemployment of Americans.
"our economy is already reliant on them"
No, employers that like paying cheap wages and seeing high profits margins by hiring them, that's about it.
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Again I find it ironic a bunch of shroomers and potheads want to get self-righteous on something because it's illegal. I guess you don't support amnesty. What about when the President pardons potheads given life sentences? Is amnesty cool then?
As far as your proposals people with that much liquid currency probably aren't as motivated to move as people fleeing war or poverty.
I'm not going to justify the 'this is England speak english' shit so I'll just leave it at that.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: qman]
#22268650 - 09/21/15 10:06 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said: "disagree is that illegals are to blame"
Having more workers chase fewer jobs lowers wages, so yes illegals are partially responsible for the lack of wage growth.
Wal-mart seems pretty good about hiring legal residents. They still pay shit wages.
Quote:
They are also responsible for fewer US citizens having jobs, so once again they are responsible for the higher unemployment of Americans.
Look at the cotton industry. What happened when slavery was abolished? Did white people go work in the fields and make more money? No, capitalists went to automation. Immigrants compete mainly with two sources of labor, other unskilled workers (such as high school drop outs) and machines.
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"our economy is already reliant on them"
No, employers that like paying cheap wages and seeing high profits margins by hiring them, that's about it.
So every capitalist?
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 2 hours, 6 minutes
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said: Again I find it ironic a bunch of shroomers and potheads want to get self-righteous on something because it's illegal. I guess you don't support amnesty. What about when the President pardons potheads given life sentences? Is amnesty cool then?
As far as your proposals people with that much liquid currency probably aren't as motivated to move as people fleeing war or poverty.
I'm not going to justify the 'this is England speak english' shit so I'll just leave it at that.
What does drug use and immigration polices have to do with each other? Nothing!!
I even have an issue with work visas for high skilled workers, and that's LEGAL!! This is an economic issue, it's not about being self-righteous.
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: qman]
#22268699 - 09/21/15 10:24 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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The left constantly tries to shift the discussion over to something other than what it is so that they will have traction. If they can't argue that illegals take jobs away and lower wages, then they focus on the illegal part. Like if obumble lets them in free, that takes care of the problem. We object to the depressed wages and americans out of work, not so much to the illegal part though that is wrong too.
If they can focus our attention on some trifle then they can avoid discussing the real issues.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 2 hours, 6 minutes
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said:
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qman said: "disagree is that illegals are to blame"
Having more workers chase fewer jobs lowers wages, so yes illegals are partially responsible for the lack of wage growth.
Wal-mart seems pretty good about hiring legal residents. They still pay shit wages.
Quote:
They are also responsible for fewer US citizens having jobs, so once again they are responsible for the higher unemployment of Americans.
Look at the cotton industry. What happened when slavery was abolished? Did white people go work in the fields and make more money? No, capitalists went to automation. Immigrants compete mainly with two sources of labor, other unskilled workers (such as high school drop outs) and machines.
Quote:
"our economy is already reliant on them"
No, employers that like paying cheap wages and seeing high profits margins by hiring them, that's about it.
So every capitalist?
Wal-Mart pays shit wages because there's a EXCESS POOL OF LABOR, why is that? Because of globalization and ILLEGALS flowing the domestic labor market.
Do you know there was a time in the US when retail jobs actually paid a livable wage? True story, it happens in a tight labor market.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,510
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: qman]
#22268711 - 09/21/15 10:28 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Walmart pays extravagant wages in comparison to what most people on the planet make.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: qman]
#22268753 - 09/21/15 10:40 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said: Wal-Mart pays shit wages because there's a EXCESS POOL OF LABOR, why is that? Because of globalization and ILLEGALS flowing the domestic labor market.
Do you know there was a time in the US when retail jobs actually paid a livable wage? True story, it happens in a tight labor market.
You have no understanding of how monopolies work. It's not just price fixing its wage fixing too. When Wal-Mart opens up and shuts down all the competition retail workers have very little choice when it comes to who they work for. If it was ten workers or a million the story is the same. You can work at Wal-Mart for $9 an hour or not work.
As I've recently mentioned we're seeing collusion in the tech industry to fix wages even in fields that are in high demand. This is illegal but as the cost of paying the fine is less than the profit they receive they do it anyway.
This magical free market shit you guys believe in is nothing but a faery tale. Business shows more solidarity than our working class and that's fucking sad.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 2 hours, 6 minutes
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Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: Enlil]
#22268763 - 09/21/15 10:42 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Enlil said: Walmart pays extravagant wages in comparison to what most people on the planet make.
I'm sure in a few years politicians will use that same line of reasoning to justify the current environment.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,510
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: qman]
#22268769 - 09/21/15 10:44 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Hopefully, they won't need to.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said: Again I find it ironic a bunch of shroomers and potheads want to get self-righteous on something because it's illegal.
Find it as ironic as you wish. My positions on what should be legal have been repeatedly articulated and consistent.
A law that regulates my personal behavior is generally to be ignored (drugs, prostitution, sexual preferences). A law which regulates societal behavior is generally, though not always, to be followed (murder, rape, theft, drunk driving, immigration)
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I guess you don't support amnesty.
Depends on what it's for.
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What about when the President pardons potheads given life sentences? Is amnesty cool then?
Depends, for possession and use? Yup. Selling to kids? No. Selling tainted drugs? No.
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As far as your proposals people with that much liquid currency probably aren't as motivated to move as people fleeing war or poverty.
Good. Let them stay home.
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I'm not going to justify the 'this is England speak english' shit so I'll just leave it at that.
Good, because your inability to comprehend nuance pretty much renders your positions laughable.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Quote:
Enlil said: Walmart pays extravagant wages in comparison to what most people on the planet make.
Cost of living is based on your geographic location. Yes, I could take a Walmart salary and go live in another country quite comfortably for several years.
That doesn't mean I can live here comfortably on the same salary.
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luvdemshrooms said: Good. Let them stay home.
And if there home is bombed partially because of our actions in the region?
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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