|
paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
|
|
Oh wait, are you playing the liberalism is literally a disease card? Again Michael Savage and a single psychiatrist don't get to set DSM standards.
Show one state without minimum wage laws that pays service workers $12 an hour.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
|
hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
|
|
Quote:
paperbackwriter said: Oh wait, are you playing the liberalism is literally a disease card? Again Michael Savage and a single psychiatrist don't get to set DSM standards.
Show one state without minimum wage laws that pays service workers $12 an hour.
Lol, what? They have minimum wages, it's federal law, but no one starts at that. Starting wages here in North Dakota are 12-15, check and mate mathafucka!
|
paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
|
|
No they're not. Pay is good but service workers still make less than half the liveable wage for the area. And quite a bit less than the $12 you claim.
And I meant state minimum wages.
Edit: ahh... It's an oil boom. Saw those in my home state. Once the oils gone the economy crashes. Boom and bust isn't a sustainable system and far from a healthy economy. Enjoy it while it lasts. Just don't invest in real estate unless you plan to flip it before the oil industry packs up.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
Edited by paperbackwriter (09/20/15 05:50 PM)
|
Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
|
|
Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: At what number do wages start going down for everyone? You're argument is flawed.
Ya see, there is no flaw in my argument, becaus I know when the economy is strong, wages go up
Before you said when there is more labor, wages go down. Now you're changing your argument to the obvious.
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: socialism doesn't make higher wages, economic prosperity does...
Where's a country with high wages and no socialism? Empirical evidence shows socialism creates higher wages.
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: Since the 80's? Wages have stagnated under Obama, please explain that...
They had already stagnated since the 80's (except a small bump under Clinton):
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
|
Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
|
|
Lets see, since all countries have socialism to some degree that must mean socialism = prosperity
>evidence shows socialism creates higher wages.
But what of the countries with socialism that are not doing so well? What is your excuse for them? Is it bush again? Russia is going down the drain economically, they are beyond socialist. For every one you cherry pick that is doing well, there are 2 doing not so well or poorly. Must we bring up Greece, Cyprus, spain, Italy, etc? Those are big countries. USA isn't doing so great either, seems like too much socialism.
Wages have not only stagnated under the incompetent obumble but actually have fallen behind more each year. His so called jobs recovery means people are working mostly part time for low wages and benefits. That's the outcome when you vote in an ideologue rather than someone who knows how the nuts and bolts work. We had years of the idiot, lets see how a loud mouth successful businessman does it. He can't do any worse and surely will be better.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
|
paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
|
Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: Stonehenge] 1
#22266599 - 09/20/15 07:26 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Greece's problems aren't because of socialism. They're mostly because of corruption and predatory lending by neighbor states.
http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/06/19/is-greece-a-case-of-failed-socialism/
And socialism isn't 'better social safety nets' though countries with more socialism tend to have them because labor has more say.
Finally I assume we mean Democratic socialism when we use the word which Russia is only in name. In truth it's very corrupt.
The other countries I'm not going to look at because really I think it would be beating a dead horse at this point.
Exploitive economics is the problem. Rather it's state corruption or just the nature of the system. It is quite obvious when we look at Scandinavian countries. It makes sense to ask ourselves what they're doing right. I know some of these countries have no minimum wage because union participation is so high. I also admire their education system.
Lol... I can't believe I just typed all that shit on my tablet fucking
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
|
Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
|
|
So if socialism doesn't work its the fault of capitalism? Or because of corruption? You do realize all leaders are corrupt don't you? Its human nature.
Obumble reportedly requested this inscription for his tombstone "its all bush's fault!"
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
|
Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs




Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,337
Last seen: 29 minutes, 12 seconds
|
Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: Stonehenge] 1
#22266723 - 09/20/15 07:58 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
A 'saturated labor market' is simply defined as a market in which every job is filled. An over-saturated labor market is a market in which labor exceeds the number of jobs. When there are more workers than jobs, wages are driven down, because everyone is dispensible.
Illegal immigration prevents the government from controlling the number of job-seekers, and the labor market inflates. That is why I am against illegal immigration. Controlled immigration is fine. I am not against immigrants.
As far as the Capitalism vs Socialism debate, it is quite simple. Firstly, Socialism does work (in the context of Democratic Socialism), and it would work in America just fine. What we have to decide as a people, is whether we want a society in which everyone has a 1st world standard of living, at the expense of producing and obscenely wealthy few, or if we want a society in which many fall through he cracks, but if you strike gold you will have enough money to buy a country of your own!
Socialism (as defined) reduces crime rates, increases overall happiness and education levels, and eliminates starvation, poor healthcare and homelessness, at the expense of also eliminating he billionaire plutocrat class.
By the way, the melting pot is not some liberal idea or liberal political agenda. Its a term which has always been used to describe America as a country of immigrants forever. What a silly bullshit thing to say. 'The liberal melting pot'. Jesus christ 
Just admit you're racist as all fuck already.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
|
hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
|
Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: Stonehenge]
#22267030 - 09/20/15 08:57 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Stonehenge said: So if socialism doesn't work its the fault of capitalism? Or because of corruption? You do realize all leaders are corrupt don't you? Its human nature.
Obumble reportedly requested this inscription for his tombstone "its all bush's fault!"
You nailed it man, when socialism fails, and it always does, they blame something else for it.... Fact is, before 1913 we had no federal income tax, no social programs, and a booming economy... Kids still went to school, we fought wars and had roads...
|
ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,852
Loc: Foreign Lands
|
|
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: Since the 80's? Wages have stagnated under Obama, please explain that...

hmmmm...what happened a little before 1975?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1972_Nixon_visit_to_China
Quote:
U.S. President Richard Nixon's 1972 visit to the People's Republic of China was an important step in formally normalizing relations between the United States (U.S.) and the People's Republic of China (PRC). It marked the first time a U.S. president had visited the PRC, which at that time considered the U.S. one of its foes, and the visit ended 25 years of separation between the two sides.
Some consider that Nixon's diplomacy failed all three of them, as Taiwan is still facing a military threat from People's Republic of China after the Third Taiwan Strait Crisis in 1996, Vietnam was soon captured by the PRC-aided North Vietnam Communists as US withdrew troops from there soon after Nixon's trip to the PRC, and the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991 was mainly on the internal/domestic economic causes of its unproductive centrally planned economic system. However, no one can dispute that President Nixon's visit opened the door to Sino-American foreign relations, and paved the way to the strong economic ties that bind the two countries today.
what a coincidence...
--------------------
Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here
|
ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,852
Loc: Foreign Lands
|
Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: Stonehenge]
#22267245 - 09/20/15 09:44 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Must we bring up Greece, Cyprus, spain, Italy, etc? Those are big countries. USA isn't doing so great either, seems like too much socialism.
www.tradingeconomics.com/ Greek GDP:Quote:
The Gross Domestic Product (GDP) in Greece was worth 237.59 billion US dollars in 2014.
Cyprus GDP:Quote:
$23.269 billion (nominal, 2014 est.)[1] $27.415 billion (PPP, 2014 est.)[1]
Italian GDP:Quote:
The Gross Domestic Product (GDP) in Italy was worth 2144.34 billion US dollars in 2014.
Spanish GDP:Quote:
The Gross Domestic Product (GDP) in Spain was worth 1404.31 billion US dollars in 2014.
Yeah, those are big countries...
USA GDP:Quote:
The Gross Domestic Product (GDP) in the United States was worth 17419 billion US dollars in 2014. The GDP value of the United States represents 28.10 percent of the world economy.
--------------------
Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here
|
Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs




Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,337
Last seen: 29 minutes, 12 seconds
|
|
Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
Stonehenge said: So if socialism doesn't work its the fault of capitalism? Or because of corruption? You do realize all leaders are corrupt don't you? Its human nature.
Obumble reportedly requested this inscription for his tombstone "its all bush's fault!"
You nailed it man, when socialism fails, and it always does, they blame something else for it.... Fact is, before 1913 we had no federal income tax, no social programs, and a booming economy... Kids still went to school, we fought wars and had roads...
Capitalism has failed more times than socialism, and it's always blaming 'regulation' or socialism or whatever. You're flat out wrong and lying with this post. It is the other way around. Everyone's been chearleading Capitalism for centuries, and ignoring its many shortcomings.
Tell me what you blame for the Great Depression, and for this recession we're in?
America is a Capitalist country, and always has been. Capitalism is destined to fail, over and over and over again, and then find a scapegoat, always. What you need to do is turn off the Alex Jones, and go read a fucking book. When are you people going to wake up.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
|
ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,852
Loc: Foreign Lands
|
|
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: You nailed it man, when socialism fails, and it always does, they blame something else for it.... Fact is, before 1913 we had no federal income tax, no social programs, and a booming economy... Kids still went to school, we fought wars and had roads...
yep, the federal reserve (and reserve banking in general) is a big scam. what is your point? that it is a liberal scam? thats just foolish, its a big money scam(which crosses party lines). and no, there is absolutely no comparison between the system of roads pre and post interstate highway system, which was constructed well after 1913. (with tax dollars and prison labor). We fought an imperialist war right before that, and we kept most of the territory gained at the time(barring cuba) I wonder if they thought they might need money to fight another war soon after?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I#Background
Quote:
Austria-Hungary precipitated the Bosnian crisis of 1908–1909 by officially annexing the former Ottoman territory of Bosnia and Herzegovina, which it had occupied since 1878. This angered the Kingdom of Serbia and its patron, the Pan-Slavic and Orthodox Russian Empire.[22] Russian political manoeuvring in the region destabilised peace accords, which were already fracturing in what was known as the "powder keg of Europe".[22] In 1912 and 1913, the First Balkan War was fought between the Balkan League and the fracturing Ottoman Empire. The resulting Treaty of London further shrank the Ottoman Empire, creating an independent Albanian State while enlarging the territorial holdings of Bulgaria, Serbia, Montenegro, and Greece. When Bulgaria attacked Serbia and Greece on 16 June 1913, it lost most of Macedonia to Serbia and Greece and Southern Dobruja to Romania in the 33-day Second Balkan War, further destabilising the region.[23]
--------------------
Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here
|
qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 1 minute, 35 seconds
|
|
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: An over saturated labor market drives wages down, liberals want to let in millions to compete for jobs, then say we should raise the minimum wage....
If more people are working, then more people are spending money, and it all balances out. If that's weren't true, then what number is "saturated"? 10 people? 1 million people? 100 million people? At what number do wages start going down for everyone? You're argument is flawed.
Quote:
"what number is saturated?"
It's what we have today in every developed economy, too many workers competing for too few jobs.
"At what number do wages start going down for everyone?"
What the hell cares? When an employers gets 100 applicants for 1 opening, that drives the wage lower.
"You're argument is flawed"
What the is main reason why we have a open border today? The people at the top don't keep it open to help out underprivileged people, it's to over supply the US labor markets, this is obvious to everyone, including the people that cross the border.
|
Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs




Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,337
Last seen: 29 minutes, 12 seconds
|
Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: qman]
#22268342 - 09/21/15 08:00 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
qman said: What the is main reason why we have a open border today? The people at the top don't keep it open to help out underprivileged people, it's to over supply the US labor markets, this is obvious to everyone, including the people that cross the border.
I think it also has to do with the steady flow of drugs that perpetuate the prison industry. The CIA has a close friendship with at least one drug cartel in Mexico, that I know of.
I don't know why left wingers have picked up this issue and run with it, but it really is bad policy, from an economic standpoint. From a humanitarian standpoint, it may be somewhat ok. I think it hurts everyone in the long run, but maybe not.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
|
paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
|
Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: Stonehenge]
#22268371 - 09/21/15 08:11 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Stonehenge said: So if socialism doesn't work its the fault of capitalism? Or because of corruption? You do realize all leaders are corrupt don't you? Its human nature.
Obumble reportedly requested this inscription for his tombstone "its all bush's fault!"
Transparency lowers corruption. Worker participation increases transparency. Again we see this in Scandinavia.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
|
qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 1 minute, 35 seconds
|
Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22268377 - 09/21/15 08:13 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
qman said: What the is main reason why we have a open border today? The people at the top don't keep it open to help out underprivileged people, it's to over supply the US labor markets, this is obvious to everyone, including the people that cross the border.
I think it also has to do with the steady flow of drugs that perpetuate the prison industry. The CIA has a close friendship with at least one drug cartel in Mexico, that I know of.
I don't know why left wingers have picked up this issue and run with it, but it really is bad policy, from an economic standpoint. From a humanitarian standpoint, it may be somewhat ok. I think it hurts everyone in the long run, but maybe not.
The "left wingers" don't understand the economics of the situation, the MSM doesn't spoon fed them the reality of how it harms their standard of living.
Every liberal that has made the argument that illegals doesn't harm US workers has demonstrated their ignorance, I've been told by many of this site that without them I wouldn't be able to afford lettuce.
|
hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
|
Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: qman]
#22268383 - 09/21/15 08:16 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Capitalism has failed more times than socialism, and it's always blaming 'regulation' or socialism or whatever. You're flat out wrong and lying with this post. It is the other way around. Everyone's been chearleading Capitalism for centuries, and ignoring its many shortcomings.
Tell me what you blame for the Great Depression, and for this recession we're in?
America is a Capitalist country, and always has been. Capitalism is destined to fail, over and over and over again, and then find a scapegoat, always. What you need to do is turn off the Alex Jones, and go read a fucking book. When are you people going to wake up.
Let's see, before capitalism, you mostly had kings and queens, an elite ruling class, was that better? Fact is, capitalism has lifted more people out of poverty than any socialist program. Let's look at the "war on poverty", what has it really done? We still have virtually the same number, percentage wise, of poor that we had then, after spending 20 Trillion dollars...
America hasn't been a capitalist country for decades... Sure, we have some parts that resemble it. SSI, Medicare, Medicaid, Obamacare, welfare, forcing banks to make bad loans, over regulation of industry, once you start "socializing" your economy, you no longer have a capitalistic economy...
|
Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs




Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,337
Last seen: 29 minutes, 12 seconds
|
|
Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
Capitalism has failed more times than socialism, and it's always blaming 'regulation' or socialism or whatever. You're flat out wrong and lying with this post. It is the other way around. Everyone's been chearleading Capitalism for centuries, and ignoring its many shortcomings.
Tell me what you blame for the Great Depression, and for this recession we're in?
America is a Capitalist country, and always has been. Capitalism is destined to fail, over and over and over again, and then find a scapegoat, always. What you need to do is turn off the Alex Jones, and go read a fucking book. When are you people going to wake up.
Let's see, before capitalism, you mostly had kings and queens, an elite ruling class, was that better? Fact is, capitalism has lifted more people out of poverty than any socialist program. Let's look at the "war on poverty", what has it really done? We still have virtually the same number, percentage wise, of poor that we had then, after spending 20 Trillion dollars...
America hasn't been a capitalist country for decades... Sure, we have some parts that resemble it. SSI, Medicare, Medicaid, Obamacare, welfare, forcing banks to make bad loans, over regulation of industry, once you start "socializing" your economy, you no longer have a capitalistic economy...
Wait a minute. You think we have a 'war on poverty' here in the US, and you think we've spent 20 trillin dollars fighting that war? I wish I had time to respond to this ridiculous post, but I'll have to save it for later.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
|
paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
|
|
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: Let's see, before capitalism, you mostly had kings and queens, an elite ruling class, was that better? Fact is, capitalism has lifted more people out of poverty than any socialist program. Let's look at the "war on poverty", what has it really done? We still have virtually the same number, percentage wise, of poor that we had then, after spending 20 Trillion dollars...
Capitalism was an improvement on Feudalism and Slavery, no one is debating that. It's still an exploitive system. We've just replaced kings and serfs with corporate feudalism and wage slaves.
Quote:
America hasn't been a capitalist country for decades... Sure, we have some parts that resemble it. SSI, Medicare, Medicaid, Obamacare, welfare, forcing banks to make bad loans, over regulation of industry, once you start "socializing" your economy, you no longer have a capitalistic economy...
Again you're mixing up social systems with socialism. Socialism was a means to some of these ends. 40 hour work week, ending child labor, social security.
And you dodged the question. Who do you blame for the Great Depression?
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
|
|