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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,368
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 2 hours, 11 minutes
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Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: qman]
#22245346 - 09/16/15 10:59 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Everyone can bitch about the refugee crisis, but maybe you'll think twice next time you start with the "we need to invade and kill all the animals in [country]" bullshit again.
I don't think Stone is a pro-Iraq War supporter, so that generalization doesn't apply to him.
Believe it or not, one can be against the foreign wars and still be against illegal immigration/refugees entering the US.
What does supporting the Iraq war from over 10 years ago have to do with the current (mostly Syrian) refugee crisis?
From what I recall, almost all the usual suspects (you, stoney, starfire, zappa) said Obama wasn't bombing Assad routinely enough.
Now there's consequences to the war you wanted ramped up, and you're blaming the same people you were before (Obama and the weak liberals).
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 3 minutes, 42 seconds
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Everyone can bitch about the refugee crisis, but maybe you'll think twice next time you start with the "we need to invade and kill all the animals in [country]" bullshit again.
I don't think Stone is a pro-Iraq War supporter, so that generalization doesn't apply to him.
Believe it or not, one can be against the foreign wars and still be against illegal immigration/refugees entering the US.
What does supporting the Iraq war from over 10 years ago have to do with the current (mostly Syrian) refugee crisis?
From what I recall, almost all the usual suspects (you, stoney, starfire, zappa) said Obama wasn't bombing Assad routinely enough.
Now there's consequences to the war you wanted ramped up, and you're blaming the same people you were before (Obama and the weak liberals).
I can't speak for the "usual suspects", but I never encouraged further involvement in that part of the world, we should have never been there in the first place.
Also, I don't blame Obama or the US for the current refugee crisis, bad things happen in the Middle East and the US isn't directly at fault, I find that line of reasoning insane.
You seem to be justifying the acceptance of refugees because some people marketed this war over a decade ago, that line of reasoning doesn't cut it. Even IF the US was directly responsible for this issue (which I don't think is the case), that still doesn't justify bringing in refugees.
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,368
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 2 hours, 11 minutes
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Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: qman] 1
#22245752 - 09/16/15 12:15 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I don't want refugees eating up my nation's resources anymore than you do, but America and her allies made this bed and now they have to sleep in it.
If a crisis like this has to happen for the warhawks to keep their guns holstered next time around, it's worth it.
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs




Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,337
Last seen: 41 minutes, 59 seconds
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Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: qman]
#22245813 - 09/16/15 12:25 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Everyone can bitch about the refugee crisis, but maybe you'll think twice next time you start with the "we need to invade and kill all the animals in [country]" bullshit again.
I don't think Stone is a pro-Iraq War supporter, so that generalization doesn't apply to him.
Believe it or not, one can be against the foreign wars and still be against illegal immigration/refugees entering the US.
What does supporting the Iraq war from over 10 years ago have to do with the current (mostly Syrian) refugee crisis?
From what I recall, almost all the usual suspects (you, stoney, starfire, zappa) said Obama wasn't bombing Assad routinely enough.
Now there's consequences to the war you wanted ramped up, and you're blaming the same people you were before (Obama and the weak liberals).
I can't speak for the "usual suspects", but I never encouraged further involvement in that part of the world, we should have never been there in the first place.
Also, I don't blame Obama or the US for the current refugee crisis, bad things happen in the Middle East and the US isn't directly at fault, I find that line of reasoning insane.
You seem to be justifying the acceptance of refugees because some people marketed this war over a decade ago, that line of reasoning doesn't cut it. Even IF the US was directly responsible for this issue (which I don't think is the case), that still doesn't justify bringing in refugees.
How does the fact that it has been happening for a decade (based on faulty information and flat out lies from a decade ago) absolve us from responsibility for the consequences? We most certainly played a role in what is happening in the middle east these days. We destabilized that entire region and made way for ISIS to grow into the monster it is today. Hell, they're using American made equipment.
I think we should accept the risk of being subjected to some of the death and destruction we've created. We can't go around murdering innocent civilians the world over, toppling governments, arming terrorists and expect someone else to pay all of the consequences, so some fat stupid asshole warmonger redneck can vote for more war (like Trump who wants to go back into Iraq) and do it all over again and never feel the true pain of it.
We have more onus than anyone else in the world.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
Edited by Bigbadwooof (09/16/15 01:26 PM)
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs




Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,337
Last seen: 41 minutes, 59 seconds
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: I don't want refugees eating up my nation's resources anymore than you do, but America and her allies made this bed and now they have to sleep in it.
If a crisis like this has to happen for the warhawks to keep their guns holstered next time around, it's worth it.
Well said. Exactly what I was trying to say, but much shorter lmao
In reality though, I don't think they are capable of putting 2 and 2 together. They will cry for more war, and blame Syria.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
Edited by Bigbadwooof (09/16/15 12:37 PM)
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 3 minutes, 42 seconds
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Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22245898 - 09/16/15 12:43 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Everyone can bitch about the refugee crisis, but maybe you'll think twice next time you start with the "we need to invade and kill all the animals in [country]" bullshit again.
I don't think Stone is a pro-Iraq War supporter, so that generalization doesn't apply to him.
Believe it or not, one can be against the foreign wars and still be against illegal immigration/refugees entering the US.
What does supporting the Iraq war from over 10 years ago have to do with the current (mostly Syrian) refugee crisis?
From what I recall, almost all the usual suspects (you, stoney, starfire, zappa) said Obama wasn't bombing Assad routinely enough.
Now there's consequences to the war you wanted ramped up, and you're blaming the same people you were before (Obama and the weak liberals).
I can't speak for the "usual suspects", but I never encouraged further involvement in that part of the world, we should have never been there in the first place.
Also, I don't blame Obama or the US for the current refugee crisis, bad things happen in the Middle East and the US isn't directly at fault, I find that line of reasoning insane.
You seem to be justifying the acceptance of refugees because some people marketed this war over a decade ago, that line of reasoning doesn't cut it. Even IF the US was directly responsible for this issue (which I don't think is the case), that still doesn't justify bringing in refugees.
How does the fact that it has been happening for a decade (based on faulty information and flat out lies from a decade ago) absolve us from responsibility for the consequences? We most certainly played a role in what is happening in the middle east these days. We destabilized that entire region and made way for ISIS to grow into the monster it is today. Hell, they're using American made equipment.
I think regardless of the risk, we should be subject to some of the death and destruction we've created. If they come here and bomb America, that's retribution for our crimes. We can't go around murdering innocent civilians the world over, toppling governments, arming terrorists and expect someone else to pay all of the consequences, so some fat stupid asshole warmonger redneck can vote for more war (like Trump who wants to go back into Iraq) and do it all over again and never feel the true pain of it.
We have more onus than anyone else in the world.
"we should be subject to the same death and destruction we've created"
Who's this "we"? Why should US citizens be subject to death and destruction for something that had nothing to do with? That's a warped line of reasoning to say the least.
"We destabilized that entire region"
So you're suggesting it was stable before the Iraq War?
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,368
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 2 hours, 11 minutes
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Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22245899 - 09/16/15 12:43 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: I don't want refugees eating up my nation's resources anymore than you do, but America and her allies made this bed and now they have to sleep in it.
If a crisis like this has to happen for the warhawks to keep their guns holstered next time around, it's worth it.
Well said. Exactly what I was trying to say, but much shorter lmao
In reality though, I don't think they are capable of putting 2 and 2 together. They will cry for more war, and blame Syria.
I've already seen the talking heads blaming ISIS for this mess.
That's like stabbing someone with rusty metal and then blaming the metal when they get tetanus.
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 3 minutes, 42 seconds
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Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22245920 - 09/16/15 12:47 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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"If they come here and bomb American, that's retribution for our crimes"
Sounds like you're advocating terrorism against innocent US citizens for something they're not responsible for, you should be ashamed of yourself, you might want to rethink that statement.
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: qman]
#22245934 - 09/16/15 12:51 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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>Who's this "we"? Why should US citizens be subject to death and destruction for something that had nothing to do with? That's a warped line of reasoning to say the least.
You are talking with a ll'ist. They never mention the crap obumble did, always try to blame everything on shrub like obumble had no choice but to do the same thing. Their logic has no logic to it. Left wing logic is based on emotions primarily and they toss in whatever facts seem to fit and ignore those that don't. I quit trying to reason with them or even correct their constant mistakes and deliberate lies.
>Sounds like you're advocating terrorism against innocent US citizens for something they're not responsible for, you should be ashamed of yourself, you might want to rethink that statement.
A perfect example of what I'm talking about.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs




Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,337
Last seen: 41 minutes, 59 seconds
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Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: qman]
#22245977 - 09/16/15 01:00 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said: "If they come here and bomb American, that's retribution for our crimes"
Sounds like you're advocating terrorism against innocent US citizens for something they're not responsible for, you should be ashamed of yourself, you might want to rethink that statement.
I don't advocate terrorism, and I don't want that to happen. When I hear Trump talking about going back into Iraq, and all these idiots support him, I have to wonder how we will ever learn. We owe it to the world to take these refugees, and we should be taking all of them regardless of the risk. Why should Germany pay for our fuckups more than we do?
America took the bait hook line and sinker, and chastised anyone who was against the wars in the middle east. I can't count the number of times a conservative warhawk told me 'if you dont like the wars you can GIIIIT out'
The American people could have stopped the war in Iraq the same way we stopped the war in Syria.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 3 minutes, 42 seconds
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Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22245997 - 09/16/15 01:05 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
qman said: "If they come here and bomb American, that's retribution for our crimes"
Sounds like you're advocating terrorism against innocent US citizens for something they're not responsible for, you should be ashamed of yourself, you might want to rethink that statement.
I don't advocate terrorism, and I don't want that to happen. When I hear Trump talking about going back into Iraq, and all these idiots support him, I have to wonder how we will ever learn. We owe it to the world to take these refugees, and we should be taking all of them regardless of the risk. Why should Germany pay for our fuckups more than we do?
America took the bait hook line and sinker, and chastised anyone who was against the wars in the middle east. I can't count the number of times a conservative warhawk told me 'if you dont like the wars you can GIIIIT out'
The American people could have stopped the war in Iraq the same way we stopped the war in Syria.
"The American people could have stopped the war in Iraq"
Really, how?
"the same way we stopped the war in Syria"
How was that? You're in dream world my friend, the American people didn't stop anything, the boys at the Pentagon decided it was in their interest, nothing more.
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs




Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,337
Last seen: 41 minutes, 59 seconds
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Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: qman]
#22246017 - 09/16/15 01:10 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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There was no support for it. We are not absolved from the actions of our government. If the American people had a more anti-war attitude we wouldn't be in so many wars. We control our government, believe it or not.
I may have worded my statements too strongly. I changed it.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
Edited by Bigbadwooof (09/16/15 01:27 PM)
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 3 minutes, 42 seconds
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Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22246273 - 09/16/15 02:12 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: There was no support for it. We are not absolved from the actions of our government. If the American people had a more anti-war attitude we wouldn't be in so many wars. We control our government, believe it or not.
I may have worded my statements too strongly. I changed it.
You do remember the Vietnam protests?
"We control our government"
Wishful thinking, big money controls it, always have and always will.
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs




Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,337
Last seen: 41 minutes, 59 seconds
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Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: qman]
#22246303 - 09/16/15 02:22 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: There was no support for it. We are not absolved from the actions of our government. If the American people had a more anti-war attitude we wouldn't be in so many wars. We control our government, believe it or not.
I may have worded my statements too strongly. I changed it.
You do remember the Vietnam protests?
"We control our government"
Wishful thinking, big money controls it, always have and always will.
If we elect a Jeb Bush, Hillary Clinton, or Donald Trump, we already know for a fact that we are voting for war. The president first and foremost controls the military. I don't believe that the American people are powerless.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: qman] 1
#22246306 - 09/16/15 02:22 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Though, I do understand and sympathize with the feeling of powerlessness when it comes to the government keep in mind that the U.S. military is still made up of American people. If the will of the people was not to go to war we wouldn't have gone to war.
The truth is that Bush played on two fears. 9/11 and the threat of nuclear warfare from Iraq. The first fear he used to drum up patriotic support (the people) and the second fear to curb congressional debate.
We destabilized the region. We elected Bush for a second term. We invaded Iraq.
Anti-war sentiment didn't set in heavily, even amongst the left, until we saw the reality of what we were doing. Right about the time images of 'Shock and Awe' hit the TV and we all realized that we were bombing civilians.
At least, that's how I remember it.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs




Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,337
Last seen: 41 minutes, 59 seconds
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We also didn't come to the defense of whistleblowers like Bradley Manning, who made us privy to the violence against civilians. The reason the government stifled whistleblowing is because the American people do have power, and they didn't want us to exercise it.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 3 minutes, 42 seconds
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Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22246441 - 09/16/15 02:52 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: There was no support for it. We are not absolved from the actions of our government. If the American people had a more anti-war attitude we wouldn't be in so many wars. We control our government, believe it or not.
I may have worded my statements too strongly. I changed it.
You do remember the Vietnam protests?
"We control our government"
Wishful thinking, big money controls it, always have and always will.
If we elect a Jeb Bush, Hillary Clinton, or Donald Trump, we already know for a fact that we are voting for war. The president first and foremost controls the military. I don't believe that the American people are powerless.
"The president first and foremost controls the military"
Wow, I didn't think people would still be so naive at this point in history.
So why did Obama (who won the Noble Peace award) invade Libya?
Do you really think the real people in power let some liberal black man from Chicago (with ZERO military and foreign policy experience) really control the worlds most powerful military? Are you interested in some bridges, I got some big ones for sale!
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs




Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,337
Last seen: 41 minutes, 59 seconds
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Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: qman]
#22246658 - 09/16/15 03:50 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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So you think that if Bernie was president he would have invaded Libya? How about Jill Stein? If she managed to become the president do you think she would have invaded Libya?
The way i see it, the president has many advisers, but at the end of the day, he makes the decision.
The president most certainly does have power. People don't run for president for the money. Hillary, Trump, and Jeb have plenty of money. They want power. The media doesn't attempt to pick the winners and losers for no reason.
You have a very apathetic, cynical view of the world, and I suppose you have many reasons to feel that way, but I think your views are a misrepresentation of reality. Yes, I do think a black, Harvard and Columbia educated, Senator from Illinois is in control of our military.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
Edited by Bigbadwooof (09/16/15 03:51 PM)
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,505
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22246680 - 09/16/15 03:54 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: So you think that if Bernie was president he would have invaded Libya? How about Jill Stein?
I'm not sure Bernie hasn't invaded Jill Stein.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 3 minutes, 42 seconds
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Re: Idiot lets in more refugees [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22246690 - 09/16/15 03:56 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: So you think that if Bernie was president he would have invaded Libya? How about Jill Stein? If she managed to become the president do you think she would have invaded Libya?
The way i see it, the president has many advisers, but at the end of the day, he makes the decision.
The president most certainly does have power. People don't run for president for the money. Hillary, Trump, and Jeb have plenty of money. They want power. The media doesn't attempt to pick the winners and losers for no reason.
You have a very apathetic, cynical view of the world, and I suppose you have many reasons to feel that way, but I think your views are a misrepresentation of reality. Yes, I do think a black, Harvard and Columbia educated, Senator from Illinois is in control of our military.
Obama was bought and paid for, of course he follows the instruction he's given. If a president were to be elected without "big money" behind them, then you might have a case.
Does Obama also have influence of economic policies? If so, why did the greatest wealth and income inequality in over 80 years take place on his watch the past 6 years? I thought Obama was suppose to change that trend, not ACCELERATE IT!!
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