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Offlineglimpee
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When do you give advice?
    #22220729 - 09/11/15 08:27 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

An enlightened man often has a lot of wisdom, but one cannot be enlightened and give advice to every single person.

Theres a sense of "I know better" when giving advice. A bit of pretention.


When is it spiritually sound to give advice? Should one only give advice when they know it will be received well and provide benefit?

I know a decent amount about mental health, addiction, and a bunch of similar shit, scientific and spiritual. But if I tried to give life advice to every single person, I would be a dick.


Even giving advice every once in a while makes me feel like a dick.


Should I just abstain from advice until I am asked for it?


--------------------
Just because I am arrogant does not mean I forget my place. It is how I choose to talk. I am not a monk. I am my own path, and I am without influence. Talk to me about my core being before you question my mental stability or life-choices. Chances are, they're only shocking to you because they don't fit your idea of what is.




Check out my Art Journal for some stuff I do http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21647069


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: When do you give advice? [Re: glimpee]
    #22220750 - 09/11/15 08:36 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

It's a generally male thing about wanting to "fix" things and to solve problems.  Many times all the woman wanted was to be held, and not held to the higher standards of advice.

Damn I'm good, not a dick at all.  I'm not from Venus but did visit there once.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: When do you give advice? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #22220936 - 09/11/15 09:17 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

People usually only want advice when it's something they want to hear. You could have pretty stellar advice to give but if they don't like what it implies then it's like talking to a wall.

As for the male and female bit, I find that both give out advice in equal amounts. I haven't met a woman yet who just wants to be held.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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OfflineMatt87
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Re: When do you give advice? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22220975 - 09/11/15 09:23 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I give advice any time I think it could help if they want it.


--------------------

Once you understand the way broadly, you see it in all things. -Musashi


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OfflineDivineO
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Re: When do you give advice? [Re: Matt87]
    #22221063 - 09/11/15 09:41 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

My advice comes with a disclaimer, I always take and give advice with a grain of salt.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: When do you give advice? [Re: glimpee] * 2
    #22221371 - 09/11/15 11:08 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I've been a psychotherapist, licensed since 1985. More often than not, people do not ask for advice, so that is not the nature of the interaction. They need to be listened to and are prepared to pay a fee for careful listening. Most people do not truly stop thinking and listen. They are busy formulating a response in their heads before they have even heard the whole message. So listening is the first thing. The second thing is my interpretation of what I've heard. Clients want to hear my interpretation because they trust that I have training and experience. But ultimately, people will weigh the 'wisdom' of my interpretation against their own and those of others. My interpretation may be the final arbiter if it is in agreement with other trusted people (someone's wise old grandma for example), because I often hear things like "Oh, that's what my mom/dad/grandma/etc. has been saying." The biblical verse which says in Luke 4:24 "No prophet is accepted in his own country" might apply here. People go outside their family and friends for serious matters to get an 'objective' perspective.

Giving advice too often means laying one's own trip on someone else, basically saying, "This is what I would do in your situation," but that kind of advice-giving is useless. One has to place oneself, empathetically, in someone else's shoes to arrive at a an interpretation and then perhaps suggest an action that fits with THEIR situation, based on what kind of personality THEY are. You cannot legitimately advise someone to act in a manner that does not fit with their personality type. If, for example, you're an extravert, you cannot advise an introvert to approach a situation in a typically extroverted manner that does not issue from their usual way of being-in-the-world. It will more than likely result in a failed attempt.

Yes, you should wait for someone to ask for your 'opinion,' or you can ask them if they want your opinion before just launching into it. They may decline your offer, but don't be offended. It may not be because they don't value your opinion/advice, but they'll decline because if you're correct, they're afraid they will resent you for being 'superior' or smarter, and that will mess up your friendship. Sometimes I wish my old friends had said something to me about my ex-wife since it was clear a couple of them didn't like her. But I suppose I had to find out for myself. I probably would've taken offense, or thought they were jealous, and not listened anyway had they volunteered their opinion. :shrug:


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleBayerPhi
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Re: When do you give advice? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #22221964 - 09/11/15 01:17 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

...when asked.


--------------------
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:alert: Mycology Fundamentals and Misc. Info :mushroom:

:chemistry: Stains, Reagents, and Media :alert:

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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: When do you give advice? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #22222046 - 09/11/15 01:38 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
I've been a psychotherapist, licensed since 1985. More often than not, people do not ask for advice, so that is not the nature of the interaction. They need to be listened to and are prepared to pay a fee for careful listening. Most people do not truly stop thinking and listen. They are busy formulating a response in their heads before they have even heard the whole message. So listening is the first thing. The second thing is my interpretation of what I've heard. Clients want to hear my interpretation because they trust that I have training and experience. But ultimately, people will weigh the 'wisdom' of my interpretation against their own and those of others. My interpretation may be the final arbiter if it is in agreement with other trusted people (someone's wise old grandma for example), because I often hear things like "Oh, that's what my mom/dad/grandma/etc. has been saying." The biblical verse which says in Luke 4:24 "No prophet is accepted in his own country" might apply here. People go outside their family and friends for serious matters to get an 'objective' perspective.

Giving advice too often means laying one's own trip on someone else, basically saying, "This is what I would do in your situation," but that kind of advice-giving is useless. One has to place oneself, empathetically, in someone else's shoes to arrive at a an interpretation and then perhaps suggest an action that fits with THEIR situation, based on what kind of personality THEY are. You cannot legitimately advise someone to act in a manner that does not fit with their personality type. If, for example, you're an extravert, you cannot advise an introvert to approach a situation in a typically extroverted manner that does not issue from their usual way of being-in-the-world. It will more than likely result in a failed attempt.

Yes, you should wait for someone to ask for your 'opinion,' or you can ask them if they want your opinion before just launching into it. They may decline your offer, but don't be offended. It may not be because they don't value your opinion/advice, but they'll decline because if you're correct, they're afraid they will resent you for being 'superior' or smarter, and that will mess up your friendship. Sometimes I wish my old friends had said something to me about my ex-wife since it was clear a couple of them didn't like her. But I suppose I had to find out for myself. I probably would've taken offense, or thought they were jealous, and not listened anyway had they volunteered their opinion. :shrug:




Awesome perspective as usual.  Just yesterday I was rereading some old posts and PM's and noted how the advice (for lack of a better word) of another user had really stuck with me many years later.  I sent them a PM thanking them and letting them know how valuable their efforts had been.  I tend to find "advice" can often have affected you in ways that take a long time to realize.

Waiting for someone to ask for you opinion is probably the best approach the majority of the time, but I would suggest considering that sometimes, when you feel strongly compelled to share some heartfelt wisdom that perhaps overriding this rule is appropriate.


--------------------
I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: When do you give advice? [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #22224556 - 09/11/15 10:03 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

:cheers:


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlineglimpee
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Re: When do you give advice? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #22227044 - 09/12/15 01:11 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
I've been a psychotherapist, licensed since 1985. More often than not, people do not ask for advice, so that is not the nature of the interaction. They need to be listened to and are prepared to pay a fee for careful listening. Most people do not truly stop thinking and listen. They are busy formulating a response in their heads before they have even heard the whole message. So listening is the first thing. The second thing is my interpretation of what I've heard. Clients want to hear my interpretation because they trust that I have training and experience. But ultimately, people will weigh the 'wisdom' of my interpretation against their own and those of others. My interpretation may be the final arbiter if it is in agreement with other trusted people (someone's wise old grandma for example), because I often hear things like "Oh, that's what my mom/dad/grandma/etc. has been saying." The biblical verse which says in Luke 4:24 "No prophet is accepted in his own country" might apply here. People go outside their family and friends for serious matters to get an 'objective' perspective.

Giving advice too often means laying one's own trip on someone else, basically saying, "This is what I would do in your situation," but that kind of advice-giving is useless. One has to place oneself, empathetically, in someone else's shoes to arrive at a an interpretation and then perhaps suggest an action that fits with THEIR situation, based on what kind of personality THEY are. You cannot legitimately advise someone to act in a manner that does not fit with their personality type. If, for example, you're an extravert, you cannot advise an introvert to approach a situation in a typically extroverted manner that does not issue from their usual way of being-in-the-world. It will more than likely result in a failed attempt.

Yes, you should wait for someone to ask for your 'opinion,' or you can ask them if they want your opinion before just launching into it. They may decline your offer, but don't be offended. It may not be because they don't value your opinion/advice, but they'll decline because if you're correct, they're afraid they will resent you for being 'superior' or smarter, and that will mess up your friendship. Sometimes I wish my old friends had said something to me about my ex-wife since it was clear a couple of them didn't like her. But I suppose I had to find out for myself. I probably would've taken offense, or thought they were jealous, and not listened anyway had they volunteered their opinion. :shrug:





I agree with all of you. When I give advice, I always try to emphisise that its only my perspective, and to take it with a grain of salt. But each perspective is important to everyone.

I try to only give advice when I think I can actually help/am worried, or if someone is asking for it/talking about a problem. And when I do give advice, I tailor it to the person/situation in a way they wont reject it... I have to give advice to them in their words - or get them to agree to my precursoers to the advice. Otherwise I agree, giving advice to people who dont want it is useless.

Great answers everyone, especially you Markos, you hit the nail on the head imo


--------------------
Just because I am arrogant does not mean I forget my place. It is how I choose to talk. I am not a monk. I am my own path, and I am without influence. Talk to me about my core being before you question my mental stability or life-choices. Chances are, they're only shocking to you because they don't fit your idea of what is.




Check out my Art Journal for some stuff I do http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21647069


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: When do you give advice? [Re: glimpee]
    #22227880 - 09/12/15 04:38 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Thanks glimpee. When I'm not playing psychotherapist at home, I'm practicing my home carpentry skills.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlineglimpee
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Re: When do you give advice? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #22262932 - 09/20/15 12:04 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Thanks glimpee. When I'm not playing psychotherapist at home, I'm practicing my home carpentry skills.




Working with ones hands is one of the greatest things one can do imo

In a way I wish I could have pursued psychology in an educational/professional level, but I'll keep what I have learned in class and on my own through personal obseravation and study in mind as I travel through life and work to maintain/improve the self


--------------------
Just because I am arrogant does not mean I forget my place. It is how I choose to talk. I am not a monk. I am my own path, and I am without influence. Talk to me about my core being before you question my mental stability or life-choices. Chances are, they're only shocking to you because they don't fit your idea of what is.




Check out my Art Journal for some stuff I do http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21647069


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: When do you give advice? [Re: glimpee]
    #22263834 - 09/20/15 08:48 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Working with ones hands is one of the greatest things one can do imo


That's why I hit the nail on its head. :wink:


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleBayerPhi
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Re: When do you give advice? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #22263838 - 09/20/15 08:49 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Is writing and taking notes considered working with one's hands?


--------------------
Μανθάνων μὴ κάμνε

:alert: Mycology Fundamentals and Misc. Info :mushroom:

:chemistry: Stains, Reagents, and Media :alert:

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: When do you give advice? [Re: BayerPhi]
    #22266021 - 09/20/15 05:23 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

BayerPhi said:
Is writing and taking notes considered working with one's hands?




Seriously? No, not in my opinion. Neither is masturbating. But I think we can all agree that we all do all of these things :wink: I'm not an artisan, but I'll repair what I can around my house, and cobble together small projects like this Voodoo Baron Samedi coffin stash-box I made for an artist friend who was obsessed with that L'wa. He got a big kick out of it, and that's what mattered. :yesnod:



--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlineglimpee
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Re: When do you give advice? [Re: BayerPhi]
    #22296803 - 09/27/15 01:14 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

BayerPhi said:
Is writing and taking notes considered working with one's hands?




Is typing working with your hands?

I think there needs to be something physical - not just mental as a result of working with ones hands.

There has to be three dimensions - in a way. Drawing is working with ones hands.

While writing can give a message - I think working with hands also provides a physical means to a message - rather than the message or idea itself

Interesting question though


--------------------
Just because I am arrogant does not mean I forget my place. It is how I choose to talk. I am not a monk. I am my own path, and I am without influence. Talk to me about my core being before you question my mental stability or life-choices. Chances are, they're only shocking to you because they don't fit your idea of what is.




Check out my Art Journal for some stuff I do http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21647069


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InvisibleHigher Love
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Re: When do you give advice? [Re: glimpee]
    #22296821 - 09/27/15 01:24 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

We all give good advice, but the reception of said advice I've never had good luck with. Listening with empathy and intent has proven more effective.
'Suggestions' speaking from personal experience using "I" or "Me" terms are easiest to phrase, but have proven best if are spoken only WHEN ASKED. Also sometimes I ask them first if they would like to hear what I have to say pertaining to the subject; this seems to help open a receptive door.


--------------------


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Invisibleenlightened seed
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Re: When do you give advice? [Re: glimpee]
    #22320023 - 10/01/15 04:53 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

whenever you want to.  not everyone deserves "good" advise :smile:


Edited by enlightened seed (10/01/15 04:57 PM)


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