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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: Bernie sanders takes lead in Iowa [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #22226883 - 09/12/15 12:18 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

The corporations don't write legislation.  The Senate does.  The Corporations don't control the flow of money.  They House does.  The corporations don't sign the bills into law.  The president does.


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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
Re: Bernie sanders takes lead in Iowa [Re: starfire_xes]
    #22228458 - 09/12/15 06:37 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

And most of these people owe a lot of favors to corporate interests.


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley


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OnlineBigbadwooof
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Re: Bernie sanders takes lead in Iowa [Re: starfire_xes]
    #22229183 - 09/12/15 09:47 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
The corporations don't write legislation.  The Senate does.  The Corporations don't control the flow of money.  They House does.  The corporations don't sign the bills into law.  The president does.




Actually the TPP was written, in large part, by citigroup, I believe.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Bernie sanders takes lead in Iowa [Re: starfire_xes]
    #22230045 - 09/13/15 06:20 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
Quote:

Sidestreet said:
He advocates holding the elite ruling class and the biggest companies accountable for the benefits they receive by virtue of living and doing business here.  This implies a disruption of the collusion between government officials and big business.





I agree with that.  How is he going to do it?  Make government bigger and give them more power? :lolsy:

its a noble and worthy goal, I agree.  But growing government to fix the problem isn't going to work since oversized government, with a plethora of officials who get rich by having a slush fund of tax payer money to spend on companies, is the problem in the first place.



Fixing the problem isn't going to fix the problem?  I disagree.  The idea is to get big money out of Government and that's exactly what Bernie wants to do.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Registered: 11/11/09
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Re: Bernie sanders takes lead in Iowa [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #22230283 - 09/13/15 07:56 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Starfires's brain short circuits when you tell him that the legislative branch can regulate big business.

"DAE corruption?!?! Lmfao!"


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Invisibleairclay
Morbid and Wrong
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Registered: 05/13/11
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Re: Bernie sanders takes lead in Iowa [Re: starfire_xes]
    #22230451 - 09/13/15 08:39 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
Quote:

airclay said:
Yes I actually saw him speak in Dallas. But, here this is where I pulled most that info of top from https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/07/16/sand-j16.html

Bernie is not a true leftist. He stands for the american liberal that has yet to realize, or merely refuses to, the problems they're fighting are systemic within capitalism. He wants to tax the profits of big business in order to make education and healthcare available. Great but, that still leaves the working class fractured and exploited. It's simply a better oppression.




The problems are NOT systemic within capitalism.  They are intrinsic to STATE CAPITALISM/SOCIALISM... that is, they become systemic problems in any economic system when the government gets too big and you have an Elite RUling Class supported by corporations.  Obama's Administration is a fine example of a move to State Capitalism.  government is too fucking big, and making it bigger makes the problem worse. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_capitalism






I understand the sort of tomato/tom-ah-to argument here but, oppression is indeed systemic to capitalism. This exact set of problems at present may be the results of a move towards state capitalism but that's a whole other wormhole of a topic.


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Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!


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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
Re: Bernie sanders takes lead in Iowa [Re: airclay]
    #22230551 - 09/13/15 09:04 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Wait, a system based on exploitation is oppressive?

:mindblown:


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley


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Invisibleairclay
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Re: Bernie sanders takes lead in Iowa [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #22230589 - 09/13/15 09:15 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

paperbackwriter said:
Wait, a system based on exploitation is oppressive?

:mindblown:




yeah no shit.


--------------------
Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Registered: 06/20/04
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Re: Bernie sanders takes lead in Iowa [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #22230804 - 09/13/15 10:07 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I've been talking about eliminating legal bribery, aka big money in politics since way back. Its nice that the left is slowly coming around to that concept as well. Hitlery is a prime example of a bought and sold politician. She has taken many millions from special interests including foreign countries. That's where her loyalty lies, not with the American people.

Sanders is better than jeb or hill, he has some good ideas and some nutty ones. Trump has good ideas, but has not fleshed out his position on everything. He will be a new broom when he gets in and will sweep clean.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Bernie sanders takes lead in Iowa [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22230898 - 09/13/15 10:22 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
I've been talking about eliminating legal bribery, aka big money in politics since way back. Its nice that the left is slowly coming around to that concept as well.



The left has been there long before you were.

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Hitlery is a prime example of a bought and sold politician. She has taken many millions from special interests including foreign countries. That's where her loyalty lies, not with the American people.



I don't disagree, but what politicians other than Bernie and Trump aren't bought?

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Sanders is better than jeb or hill, he has some good ideas and some nutty ones.



Care to share one of his "nutty" ideas with us?

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Trump... has not fleshed out his position on everything. He will be a new broom when he gets in and will sweep clean.



How do you know that?  He hasn't provided his plans on much besides immigration.  He likes to keep things generic like "I'll clean things up".  Hard to believe without specifics.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Bernie sanders takes lead in Iowa [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #22230939 - 09/13/15 10:30 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

>Care to share one of his "nutty" ideas with us?

Bernie is a socialist, wants to tax the hell out of companies which will of course drive even more overseas. Hasn't obumble done enough of that? Good jobs are scarce now days unless you count flipping burgers as a good job. Most of our manufacturing has been sent overseas because of liberal policies. I agree the gop is worthless but that does not mean the dems have good ideas. Why do you think almost everything you see in the stores comes from china?

>what politicians other than Bernie and Trump aren't bought?

None, that's why they are the only two I could support. The choice between jeb and hill is like choosing between a turd sandwich on rye bread vs wheat. Biden is too old and too beholden to the big money people same as obumble.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
Re: Bernie sanders takes lead in Iowa [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22231018 - 09/13/15 10:48 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Bernie is a socialist.  I am too.  Being a socialist doesn't mean 'tax the hell out of Capitalists' though it's true he does want to do that.  But that's just part of the equation.

The other part is supporting worker owned businesses and moving away from capitalism completely.  If we really want special interests out of politics how about we quit supporting special interests?

If you really want to understand his 'nutty ideas' maybe take a read of his actual platform and a look at bills he's actually written.  Here's some stuff to get you started.

http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/recent-business/an-economic-agenda-for-america-12-steps-forward

http://www.politicususa.com/2015/01/03/bernie-sanders-flexes-muscles-introducing-bill-create-13-million-jobs.html

And here's his liberal 'open borders agenda' which isn't open borders at all.

http://www.epi.org/blog/bernie-sanders-is-correct-on-immigration/


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley


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InvisibleBoldAsLove
Pokemon Master


Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 2,549
Loc: Kanto Region
Re: Bernie sanders takes lead in Iowa [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22231039 - 09/13/15 10:52 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
>Care to share one of his "nutty" ideas with us?

Bernie is a socialist, wants to tax the hell out of companies which will of course drive even more overseas. Hasn't obumble done enough of that? Good jobs are scarce now days unless you count flipping burgers as a good job. Most of our manufacturing has been sent overseas because of liberal policies. I agree the gop is worthless but that does not mean the dems have good ideas. Why do you think almost everything you see in the stores comes from china?





Yes, Bernie wants to raise taxes on corporations, but he also wants to end trade agreements that send American jobs oversees. So manufacturing jobs will be returning to the US, not the other way around.

He also supports a small FTT which can raise huge amounts of money and slow down Wall Street speculation, both great things for our economy.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Bernie sanders takes lead in Iowa [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #22231107 - 09/13/15 11:05 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

BoldAsLove said:
Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Bernie is a socialist, wants to tax the hell out of companies which will of course drive even more overseas.



Yes, Bernie wants to raise taxes on corporations, but he also wants to end trade agreements that send American jobs oversees. So manufacturing jobs will be returning to the US, not the other way around.



:thumbup:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OnlineBigbadwooof
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Re: Bernie sanders takes lead in Iowa [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #22237924 - 09/14/15 06:15 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

http://nypost.com/2015/09/13/bernie-is-wiping-the-floor-with-hillary-in-latest-polls/

'Sanders wiping the floor with Hillary in Iowa'

Sanders is beating Hillary 43% to 33% in Iowa, and 52 to 30 in NH. It's ON fellas! Bernie's going to win this thing! :smile:


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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InvisibleLe_Canard
The Duk Abides


Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
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Re: Bernie sanders takes lead in Iowa [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22237982 - 09/14/15 06:31 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Oh fuck yes, go Mr. Sanders, Go! :laugh: I'm going to vote for him in my states democratic primary. If you like him, you should do the same.


Edited by Le_Canard (09/14/15 07:33 PM)


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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
Re: Bernie sanders takes lead in Iowa [Re: Le_Canard]
    #22237994 - 09/14/15 06:33 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Le_Canard said:
Oh fuck ye3s, go Mr. Sanders, Go! :laugh: I'm going to vote for him in my states democratic primary. If you like him, you should do the same.




:nodofunderstanding:


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,357
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Re: Bernie sanders takes lead in Iowa [Re: Le_Canard]
    #22238015 - 09/14/15 06:37 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Temper enthusiasm, chaps. Hillary still up 13 points in South Carolina and 16 points in California. Up 18 points nationwide.

Not to mention the super delegates shes basically guaranteed to get in NY. Its still a near vertical hill for Bernie to climb, but the good news is the media has to start taking notice, and the momentum from NH and Iowa will boost his numbers everywhere else.



The real problem is this 6 debates bullshit, there were 26 in 2008. Heres the schedule for anyone wondering:

October 13, Wynn Hotel, Las Vegas NV, CNN

November 14, Drake University, Des Moines IA, CBS

December 19, Manchester NH, ABC

Feb/March, Miami FL, Univision/WaPo

Feb/March, Milwaukee WI, PBS


--------------------


Edited by The Ecstatic (09/14/15 06:47 PM)


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InvisibleBoldAsLove
Pokemon Master


Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 2,549
Loc: Kanto Region
Re: Bernie sanders takes lead in Iowa [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #22238152 - 09/14/15 07:06 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

We're still several months out though. Plenty of time for Sanders to build support in those states. He's got all the momentum right now and that's huge in the primaries. If he wins Iowa and New Hampshire, he's got a really decent shot of winning the primary.

And yes, the debate schedule is utter bullshit.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Registered: 06/20/04
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Re: Bernie sanders takes lead in Iowa [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #22238180 - 09/14/15 07:13 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

But enlil said sanders didn't have a chance and he claims he has called the winner and hasn't been wrong in 30 years. How can you go against that?

Of course he is the same guy who said cops should let criminals go if they resist so....


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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