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OfflineAchillita
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Bernie sanders takes lead in Iowa
    #22220462 - 09/11/15 07:06 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Bernie Sanders now has passed Hillary Clinton in Iowa in the polls. It's only by 1%, but it's still a victory. Here's the article from CNN
Quote:

Bernie Sanders has drawn even with Hillary Clinton for the first time in Iowa, according to a new poll Thursday, underscoring the possibility that the once prohibitive Democratic favorite could lose both of the first two presidential contests.

Sanders edges Clinton 41% to 40% in a new survey by Quinnipiac University, overtaking the former secretary of state as she continues to be dogged by questions about her use of a private email server when she was in public office. Sanders trailed her by 21 points the last time Quinnipiac surveyed the field two months ago, and that margin has more or less held in surveys in Iowa throughout the summer -- until recently.

Vice President Joe Biden, who is mulling a late entry into the race, collected 12% support in Thursday's poll.

For Clinton, the poll will come as a sharp reminder of her 2008 race, when she also faltered in Iowa despite her once-inevitable nominee status. Clinton also trails Sanders in New Hampshire polling, the second nominating state.

Clinton still maintains solidly double-digit leads in national polls and remains the overwhelming favorite of the Democratic establishment. But Sanders' rise has injected new drama to the Democratic race.

"He is the candidate of the Democratic left, against his own party's bosses and their prized presidential candidate," explained Quinnipiac pollster Peter A. Brown. "Sanders has seized the momentum by offering a message more in line with disproportionately liberal primary and caucus voters."

Even if she were to ultimately lose Iowa and New Hampshire, Clinton's financial and political power could make her formidable in the states that vote next, especially in the south. But her ratings on key personality questions are giving some Democrats pause. Clinton chose to issue a formal apology this week for some of her email practices, but 30% of Democratic voters responding to the poll said they do not find her honest and trustworthy. Only 4% said the same was true of Sanders and 5% of Biden.

Former Maryland governor Martin O'Malley earned 3% support in the poll, and former Virginia senator Jim Webb won 1%. Lincoln Chafee of Rhode Island did not register in the survey.

Quinnipiac polled 832 likely Iowa caucus-goers between Aug. 27-Sept. 8 for a margin of error of plus or minus 3.4 percentage points.



http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/10/politics/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-iowa-poll/

Discuss :grin:


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OfflinePatlal
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Re: Bernie sanders takes lead in Iowa [Re: Achillita]
    #22221124 - 09/11/15 09:58 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Sanders - Trump 2016


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OfflineSidestreet
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Re: Bernie sanders takes lead in Iowa [Re: Patlal] * 1
    #22221304 - 09/11/15 10:47 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Sanders isn't qualified to be president.  He's way too sincere. :smile:


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OfflineAchillita
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Re: Bernie sanders takes lead in Iowa [Re: Sidestreet]
    #22221503 - 09/11/15 11:35 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
Sanders - Trump 2016



That's honestly how it's looking out to be. Both underdogs and are lead by the need for some sort of real change. Both are kinda radicals, but not really. But it'd be one hell of a presidential debate. I feel like in a 1v1 debate, trump would lose on many points. I'd imagine he'd at least try to prepare pretty well for this debate though.
Quote:

Sidestreet said:
Sanders isn't qualified to be president.  He's way too sincere. :smile:



Sounds like a president I'd want :grin:


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OfflineSidestreet
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Re: Bernie sanders takes lead in Iowa [Re: Achillita]
    #22221735 - 09/11/15 12:21 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I like that he refuses to talk shit and I like his positions.

He makes it hard for interviewers to pull him off his message.

He did say that he wouldn't accept super PAC support.  I mean, he can't really stop a super PAC from spending money on him.  Would it be hard for him to keep up in a post-Citizens United billionaire-funded race without accepting big money?  I don't know.  People sure love him though.

I really like that he wants to keep out of the ISIS mess, especially at a time when some politicians seem intent on throwing us back into the endless cycle of war in the middle east. 


Edited by Sidestreet (09/11/15 12:23 PM)


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OfflineAchillita
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Re: Bernie sanders takes lead in Iowa [Re: Sidestreet]
    #22221746 - 09/11/15 12:24 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I've donated to him:shrug:


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OfflineSidestreet
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Re: Bernie sanders takes lead in Iowa [Re: Achillita]
    #22221757 - 09/11/15 12:27 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Nice!


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Invisibleairclay
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Re: Bernie sanders takes lead in Iowa [Re: Sidestreet]
    #22221774 - 09/11/15 12:31 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Bernie's alright. At the end of the day tho he's still just fighting for a better oppression.Just a part of one of the two pro big business right wing parties. More protectionist than internationalist and minus the last twelve years of iraq/afghan can't really claim to be anti-war. In my best hopes tho he's the path of least resistance for some sort of meaningful change.


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OfflineAchillita
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Re: Bernie sanders takes lead in Iowa [Re: airclay]
    #22221811 - 09/11/15 12:41 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Do you know of any of the issues Bernie Sanders is leading on? He is running against big corporations. He wants to tax the large corporations. He wants to break up the banks that are too big to fail. Free public college, free healthcare ect. He also voted against going to Iraq after 9/11.

Here's a site that highlights all of his issues! It'll go in detail through which one to pick.
http://feelthebern.org/ (It was a site made by supporters of his campaign)

Also, he said he smoked weed 2 times, but it made him cough too much. He's supposed to be announcing his view on recreational marijuana very soon. He already supports medical marijuana.


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Edited by Achillita (09/11/15 12:45 PM)


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Invisibleairclay
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Re: Bernie sanders takes lead in Iowa [Re: Achillita]
    #22221963 - 09/11/15 01:17 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Yes I actually saw him speak in Dallas. But, here this is where I pulled most that info of top from https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/07/16/sand-j16.html

Bernie is not a true leftist. He stands for the american liberal that has yet to realize, or merely refuses to, the problems they're fighting are systemic within capitalism. He wants to tax the profits of big business in order to make education and healthcare available. Great but, that still leaves the working class fractured and exploited. It's simply a better oppression.


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Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Bernie sanders takes lead in Iowa [Re: airclay]
    #22223207 - 09/11/15 05:40 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Should just post this is in the existing Bernie thread. :thumbup:


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: Bernie sanders takes lead in Iowa [Re: airclay]
    #22223663 - 09/11/15 07:06 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

airclay said:
Yes I actually saw him speak in Dallas. But, here this is where I pulled most that info of top from https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/07/16/sand-j16.html

Bernie is not a true leftist. He stands for the american liberal that has yet to realize, or merely refuses to, the problems they're fighting are systemic within capitalism. He wants to tax the profits of big business in order to make education and healthcare available. Great but, that still leaves the working class fractured and exploited. It's simply a better oppression.




The problems are NOT systemic within capitalism.  They are intrinsic to STATE CAPITALISM/SOCIALISM... that is, they become systemic problems in any economic system when the government gets too big and you have an Elite RUling Class supported by corporations.  Obama's Administration is a fine example of a move to State Capitalism.  government is too fucking big, and making it bigger makes the problem worse. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_capitalism



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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Bernie sanders takes lead in Iowa [Re: starfire_xes]
    #22223681 - 09/11/15 07:11 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

A move to state capitalism? As if that wasn't the plan all along?


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Bernie sanders takes lead in Iowa [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #22223690 - 09/11/15 07:13 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Oh wait no I forgot the founding fathers were day laborers.


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: Bernie sanders takes lead in Iowa [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #22223729 - 09/11/15 07:21 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

state capitalism isn't the same thing as free market capitalism.  state capitalism is also shown in its extreme as the final system that as in place before the collapse of the USSR.


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OfflineSidestreet
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Re: Bernie sanders takes lead in Iowa [Re: starfire_xes]
    #22225971 - 09/12/15 07:17 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I'm not sure I agree that what we have is state capitalism.  In state capitalism, the government owns the means of production or "has considerable control over the allocation of credit and investment."  I feel like those things are in private hands, which exert undue influence on or collude with government to gain favor at the expense of 95% of our people.

One of the things I like about what Bernie advocates is a move toward the social support structures of much of the modern world.  You know, the places that lead the world in terms of health:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2015/04/03/24-7-wall-st-healthiest-countries/70859728/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_health_coverage_by_country

and education:

http://247wallst.com/special-report/2014/09/11/the-most-educated-countries-in-the-world-3/

Yes, the US is one of the top ten countries for number of college degrees, but it is also by far the most expensive places to go to college.  The burden of student loans has reached crisis level.

Bernie advocates that we join the rest of the civilized world and TAKE CARE OF OUR CITIZENS.  Which is just another way of saying take care of ourselves.  He advocates holding the elite ruling class and the biggest companies accountable for the benefits they receive by virtue of living and doing business here.  This implies a disruption of the collusion between government officials and big business.


Edited by Sidestreet (09/12/15 07:19 AM)


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Bernie sanders takes lead in Iowa [Re: starfire_xes]
    #22225975 - 09/12/15 07:19 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

@starfire

I'm aware of the differences. But we've had state capitalism and aristocracy from the beginning.


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OfflineSidestreet
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Re: Bernie sanders takes lead in Iowa [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #22225980 - 09/12/15 07:21 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

No doubt.  I think there's more aristocracy at play than the other though.


Edited by Sidestreet (09/12/15 07:22 AM)


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: Bernie sanders takes lead in Iowa [Re: Sidestreet]
    #22225990 - 09/12/15 07:27 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Sidestreet said:
He advocates holding the elite ruling class and the biggest companies accountable for the benefits they receive by virtue of living and doing business here.  This implies a disruption of the collusion between government officials and big business.





I agree with that.  How is he going to do it?  Make government bigger and give them more power? :lolsy:

its a noble and worthy goal, I agree.  But growing government to fix the problem isn't going to work since oversized government, with a plethora of officials who get rich by having a slush fund of tax payer money to spend on companies, is the problem in the first place.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Bernie sanders takes lead in Iowa [Re: starfire_xes]
    #22226237 - 09/12/15 09:05 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
Quote:

Sidestreet said:
He advocates holding the elite ruling class and the biggest companies accountable for the benefits they receive by virtue of living and doing business here.  This implies a disruption of the collusion between government officials and big business.





I agree with that.  How is he going to do it?  Make government bigger and give them more power? :lolsy:

its a noble and worthy goal, I agree.  But growing government to fix the problem isn't going to work since oversized government, with a plethora of officials who get rich by having a slush fund of tax payer money to spend on companies, is the problem in the first place.




Why does it have to be a slush fund? Legislating against corporate overreach doesn't mean someone just writes "Legislation X" on a bag of money and puts it in a room on Capitol Hill. The problem is the corporations are typically writing the legislation which allows loopholes.


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