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Offlinetwoseeeye
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Carlos Castaneda, Don Juan: A Yaqui Way Of Knowlege
    #22217272 - 09/10/15 03:00 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Have you read it? what are your thoughts?


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Carlos Castaneda, Don Juan: A Yaqui Way Of Knowlege [Re: twoseeeye]
    #22217733 - 09/10/15 05:04 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I have read it.  There are two things you should understand.  First, that it is very good, and fantastically and compellingly interesting.  It is a brilliantly crafted book.

However, here's the catch:

The second thing you need to understand is that even though Castaneda presented this book as a factual account of events that really happened as laid out in his Ph.D. thesis -- it wasn't.  He was a fraud.  The book is a work of genius, but Don Juan was an invented character.  A lot of people, even after finding this out, cling to the notion that maybe, maybe it's true.  I was like that.  Then, cutting through it, I found out that his ex-wife spilled the beans.  She confirmed that Castaneda, her then husband, was working on the narratives for all of the books as early as 1962 -- years before they were alleged to have taken place.  Once I learned that I realized they really were fabricated, and there was no Don Juan. :shrug:

Now you know what you need to.


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Offlinetwoseeeye
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Re: Carlos Castaneda, Don Juan: A Yaqui Way Of Knowlege [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22217776 - 09/10/15 05:15 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I'm actually more happy to hear that he's a fraud and a brilliant writer than the weasel I thought he was after reading the second half of the book. It seemed to me that he sold out and discarded all that he learned as mysticism, painting Don Juan as an old swindler in the end, just to be accepted by modern science and scholars.

I very much enjoyed the first half of the book, and to hear that it's just a story doesn't put me off a bit. I do wish he would have published it as fiction but hey, maybe then it wouldn't have reached us in the same way. Thanks for the update, my mind is now at ease.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Carlos Castaneda, Don Juan: A Yaqui Way Of Knowlege [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22217793 - 09/10/15 05:19 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Did he at least do a lot of peyote?


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Offlinetwoseeeye
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Re: Carlos Castaneda, Don Juan: A Yaqui Way Of Knowlege [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #22217821 - 09/10/15 05:23 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Good question Lunar, I don't know how he could have made that all up without any experience.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Carlos Castaneda, Don Juan: A Yaqui Way Of Knowlege [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #22218140 - 09/10/15 06:40 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

twoseeeye said:
I'm actually more happy to hear that he's a fraud and a brilliant writer than the weasel I thought he was after reading the second half of the book. It seemed to me that he sold out and discarded all that he learned as mysticism, painting Don Juan as an old swindler in the end, just to be accepted by modern science and scholars.

I very much enjoyed the first half of the book, and to hear that it's just a story doesn't put me off a bit. I do wish he would have published it as fiction but hey, maybe then it wouldn't have reached us in the same way. Thanks for the update, my mind is now at ease.




Glad to inform you. :smile:


Quote:

LunarEclipse said:
Did he at least do a lot of peyote?




I agree with two, he must have had to in order to have the perspective he did.  All I know is that after the success of his books, he became a total recluse and headed a cult.  A literal cult.  There's stuff on it on the web, check it out, it's pretty out there.


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Invisiblecaman
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Re: Carlos Castaneda, Don Juan: A Yaqui Way Of Knowlege [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22218221 - 09/10/15 06:55 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

He is a fraud? damn, that's disappointing. I literally just started reading my first book of his "The Art Of Dreaming".


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In the province of the mind, what one believes to be true is true or becomes true, within certain limits to be found experientially and experimentally. These limits are further beliefs to be transcended. In the mind, there are no limits.- John C. Lilly


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InvisibleJufin
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Re: Carlos Castaneda, Don Juan: A Yaqui Way Of Knowlege [Re: twoseeeye]
    #22221325 - 09/11/15 10:54 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

They are entertaining and addictive books.  He always plays the idiot in the beginning of the books, and by the end he's all pro and experienced, and you as the reader get to feel that, which gives endorphins and shit.  Yeah, smart guy he was to pull that off, but full of shit.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Carlos Castaneda, Don Juan: A Yaqui Way Of Knowlege [Re: Jufin]
    #22221431 - 09/11/15 11:21 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Jufin said:
Yeah, smart guy he was to pull that off, but full of shit.




Exactly.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Carlos Castaneda, Don Juan: A Yaqui Way Of Knowlege [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22230411 - 09/13/15 08:30 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Wait what?  You mean we aren't luminous eggs with strings emanating from our body that we can use to fly?


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Carlos Castaneda, Don Juan: A Yaqui Way Of Knowlege [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22231007 - 09/13/15 10:44 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

:lol:


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Offlinemindfckery
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Re: Carlos Castaneda, Don Juan: A Yaqui Way Of Knowlege [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22231483 - 09/13/15 12:30 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Castaneda earned a PhD in Anthropology by presenting his work with the Don Juan/Nagual as factual. This was after becoming a well known author and highly successful. He did study with individuals/naguales but there was no nagual named Don Juan who made him his apprentice. It is unfortunate the books are not "real" but only a work of fiction. Nevertheless they are amazing and close to accurate for possible experiences. He wrote about what he learned from the people in Mexico. The man was an amazing author and captivates his reader. His writings, to me, display what he wanted to learn or experience while studying in mexico.

They are a great starting point for young adults trying psychedelics/plants/medicine and realizing there is more than simply getting fucked up and having a good time. Castaneda opened the possibility of their being a spiritual aspect to recreational usage for many people. He does an amazing job at encompassing many aspects of a nagual/shaman/teacher in his books. The underworld and dark energy makes reoccurring appliances in his work and it has beautiful narratives of personal pain, experiences, growth and emotional associated with being a young journeyer.

Castaneda, again, is a great starting point. Read his work as fiction written by a well versed anthropologist who studied in mexico with naguales, curanderos ,shamans, etc. From there you can move onto shamanism, jungian psychology, further entheogenic studies, etc.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Carlos Castaneda, Don Juan: A Yaqui Way Of Knowlege [Re: mindfckery] * 1
    #22231575 - 09/13/15 12:47 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Given what he did, I have to wonder about his anthropology credentials.  It is my understanding from my research into this that he submitted completely false information in his thesis.  He was a fraud all the way around, no matter how you look at it.  I do admit the books are quite good, but come on, what a swindle.


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Offlinetwoseeeye
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Re: Carlos Castaneda, Don Juan: A Yaqui Way Of Knowlege [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22231593 - 09/13/15 12:52 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Couldn't he have his P.H.D revoked for falsifying his thesis?


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Carlos Castaneda, Don Juan: A Yaqui Way Of Knowlege [Re: twoseeeye]
    #22231629 - 09/13/15 01:00 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I don't think they knew it was false until much later.  Plus, there was a lot of money in it, anyway.


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Offlinemindfckery
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Re: Carlos Castaneda, Don Juan: A Yaqui Way Of Knowlege [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22231720 - 09/13/15 01:15 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

A lot of people worked toward the revoking of his PhD, but as mentioned above, it wasn't until much longer. Carlos was a great writer and he did indeed submit false field studies, narratives and false teachings. Part of his field research and requirements for his Phd was to travel and conduct "real" fieldwork. Whatever happened there, we will never know.
Carlos should have been a writer not an anthropologist. However, it is extremely difficult to fool a panel of professors/researchers in anthropology at UCLA. It leads me to believe he did indeed learn a lot from his fieldwork and there was some sort of validity to his thesis. Meaning, he used the right elements but romanticized them to make himself the main attraction by giving himself the role of the apprentice.
In the Second Ring of Power he even wrote himself to be the future nagual to the rest of those involved with Don Juan. He truly took what he learned and wrote a series of fiction novels from it. His use of magic, toltec teachings, etc are all good.

You can take great things from the books. My judgement of Castaneda stays there.


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go on go on
I'm still here, waiting.


Edited by mindfckery (09/13/15 01:23 PM)


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