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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: spacechildo]
#23246592 - 05/19/16 04:03 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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I'm just now getting in to manure subs because I live in an apartment. It just so happens I found someone I know that is able to get me access to a horse pasture, so getting it is easy now.
I can see the value in purchasing dried manure, not sterilized or pasteurized. Living in an apartment adds hurdles to storage and processing. The stuff I got was wet underneath from the rain we had gotten, but it seems to be drying out okay in a tote I used to use for my SGFC. I just put tape on the bottom holes to keep dust from getting everywhere. Given my space, I can only keep so much at one time without drawing attention. I'm not sure yet if I want to store it inside.
Those vendor bags are probably not sterilized, but pasteurized. Calling them sterile is probably a marketing trick. If they were really sterilized, they would contaminate much easier if spawning in open air.
There's no inherent reason why you couldn't inoculate manure with LC. Using grain spawn has advantages though. It's easier to control moisture content and do large grows. It seems like I could get enough grain spawn ready for a mono faster than enough LC and the LC carries the extra potential risk.
The manure from stables often has anti-fungals or cedar, which is naturally anti-fungal.
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mary fairchild
Pantheist

Registered: 12/06/14
Posts: 777
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#23246683 - 05/19/16 04:24 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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I got some stable derived horse poo off Craigslist- aside from the urine it's loaded with Cedar chips- BAD.
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: mary fairchild]
#23246846 - 05/19/16 05:09 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Fucking cedar.
That's the main reason why I'm trying so hard to get straw to work. There is no way I can ever gather enough field aged poo for me to use it exclusively. A straw bale makes a shitload of tubs and it's cheap enough to not give a fuck about it. An 8euro bale will last me for months.
If straw fails I am definitely in trouble. Coir is too expensive here to spawn the amount of tubs and trays I would like to.
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mary fairchild
Pantheist

Registered: 12/06/14
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#23246874 - 05/19/16 05:17 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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I've been buying my sub. It's ok for small scale grows but too expensive to scale up to lotsa mono tubs. Can't wait to get my own cow based sub to work- cow pies are easy to collect in the intermountain west USA.
I get my coir from pet shops- but again its small scale.
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: mary fairchild]
#23246910 - 05/19/16 05:24 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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I get mine from a lizard pet shop. It's the only petshop I found on the internet that stocks it in my country. 5.50euro a brick though, definitely on the expensive side. Importing coir is insane, talked to a couple of sellers on ebay and the prices were as much as the coir itself. Shipping prices from the UK are ridiculous, almost as expensive as US's shipping for some items. US is like 3 times more far away from the UK for us so I really don't know what that's about.
Shipping companies in the UK must be millionares.
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lusus
Stranger

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#23246930 - 05/19/16 05:28 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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What!!!!! You pay €5.50 for a brick of coir? like a 650g brick of coir?
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: lusus]
#23246954 - 05/19/16 05:35 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yeah . Just used my last brick with a bunch of trays to make sure that my jars are clean since my first try using straw was a crash and burn. If I had to keep using coir as my main bulk substrate it would really limit how much tubs I can make.
Straw and poo are the only cheaper alternatives, what else can you do if you aren't able to use them both? If straw keeps failing I will keep trying until I die from mold spores, that's for sure. Fuck if I don't at least try to grow using cheap stuff.
Edit: I actually don't know the brick's weight, all it says is that it expands to 8l. I think that is equivalent to the 650g bricks you are talking about though.
Edited by Supalemonhaze (05/19/16 05:37 PM)
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cigam



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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: mary fairchild]
#23247004 - 05/19/16 05:51 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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This is all good info on the subject of hpoo. You guys know your shit. Im still trying to learn. So what if i take my bag of vendor sterilized hpoo and in my sab i pull some hpoo out and put some in a couple of small trays with my clean grain spawn, see if it colonizes then case it and put in my sgfc. If it contams or dosn't work i would still have the bag of hpoo . I could then try just dumping a quart or two of grain spawn in the bag and let it colonize. If or when it colonizes in the bag it would than be safe to put in trays and case and into the sgfc? Or make a couple of small monotubs ? What would you do? Shit i got a 5 lb. bag of vendor sterilized hpoo that actually might just be pasteurized, Idk, I would like to try and use it. You hit it on the nail about buying hpoo as opposed to going out collecting it. I know im lazy, for me its a 45min drive i dont really have any solid contacts yet plus i want to make sure i get good hpoo if im going to put the time and effort into it. I know i will eventually find a place and be out there like a pig in shit. Thanks for all the help guys.
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lusus
Stranger

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#23247024 - 05/19/16 05:58 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yeah that's the 650g brick. that is atrocious!
Straw is a good alternative though, good job is cheap as chips.
I can buy a 650kg bale of chopped straw for about 60 euros, problem is where the f@%* does one store more than half a ton of straw? I live in the city lol
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: lusus]
#23247074 - 05/19/16 06:15 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
cigam said: This is all good info on the subject of hpoo. You guys know your shit. Im still trying to learn. So what if i take my bag of vendor sterilized hpoo and in my sab i pull some hpoo out and put some in a couple of small trays with my clean grain spawn, see if it colonizes then case it and put in my sgfc. If it contams or dosn't work i would still have the bag of hpoo . I could then try just dumping a quart or two of grain spawn in the bag and let it colonize. If or when it colonizes in the bag it would than be safe to put in trays and case and into the sgfc? Or make a couple of small monotubs ? What would you do? Shit i got a 5 lb. bag of vendor sterilized hpoo that actually might just be pasteurized, Idk, I would like to try and use it. You hit it on the nail about buying hpoo as opposed to going out collecting it. I know im lazy, for me its a 45min drive i dont really have any solid contacts yet plus i want to make sure i get good hpoo if im going to put the time and effort into it. I know i will eventually find a place and be out there like a pig in shit. Thanks for all the help guys.
You can obviously try. You will need to make room for your grain in there anyway. I would try it but I suggest you get enough spawn to use in both the tray and the bag in the same session.
Yeah, when it finishes colonizing the bag, you can break it up and put it in trays, it will not contam due to being already colonized thoroughly. I personally would prefer to do a bunch of small trays and fill a monotub with them or fill the mono itself. Doesn't matter the size of the tote as long as you fill it. An SGFC is cool and all but I see it more as a cake FC than anything else. It can still give you good results but remember, Pans like more FAE than cubes and with a SGFC the only way to dial that in is by either increasing holes or the size of them. A mono can be dialed by the polyfill at any point in the grow. I also feel like a mono loses less moisture since none of the holes are open.
Quote:
lusus said: Yeah that's the 650g brick. that is atrocious!
Straw is a good alternative though, good job is cheap as chips.
I can buy a 650kg bale of chopped straw for about 60 euros, problem is where the f@%* does one store more than half a ton of straw? I live in the city lol
They should make smaller bales. I think you are talking about those giant round ones, right? I bought the one that is roughly 25-30kg in weight. It was still barely small enough to fit in my 150lt tote though . This is it, I have already taken quite a bit of it, I have about 30-40lt worth of chopped straw in another container and I used it to spawn a mono and around 8 or 10 trays and an oyster laundry basket.

You can still see how I had to bend the lid to close the tote . If I tried to fit it in there when I got it, it definitely wouldn't have fit in there. But hey, at least I found a genuine use for my SAB.
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mary fairchild
Pantheist

Registered: 12/06/14
Posts: 777
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: cigam]
#23247135 - 05/19/16 06:35 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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It's sterilized- I asked the guy- they put it in a big autoclave, (autoclave= PC). I believe him, for future reference- he said if you want it pasteurized he can do that too.
Best to do what you are most comfortable with- if your concerned about contamination
Pour some of the sub out in the SAB and use that to spawn to a tray outside the SAB, keeping the remainder sterile for future use; & see if it contaminates.
If you could spawn one tray inside the SAB and seal it with a lid and cover the holes with microprobe tape to convince yourself that airborne stuff can't get in.... and one tray spawned outside the SAB, you could compare the two. I wouldn't bother with trying this but...
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: mary fairchild]
#23247157 - 05/19/16 06:43 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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that's another weird thing, why bother autoclaving manure when its easily sterilized in atmospheric pressure?
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lusus
Stranger

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#23247175 - 05/19/16 06:51 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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I have never grown panaeolus before, only just germinated some cambodginiensis and I want to go with straw as my substrate but the whole pasteurisation process doesn't appeal to me much.
I'm considering using the same container you use for agar plates but with 1L capacity and do Pasty's straw tek in them with about 1/4 cup of pelleted manure per container.
As in giant pf cakes to be crumbled and cased.
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mary fairchild
Pantheist

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: spacechildo]
#23247190 - 05/19/16 06:57 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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He said they sterilize it because it extends the shelf life to 1yr. I should have asked 1year at what temperature? I've been putting 1lb bags in the freezer and they're good months later.
For tray scale grows its not too pricy especially if you can't easily make you own poo based sub. a problem I'm working on right now.
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
Posts: 6,725
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: mary fairchild]
#23247255 - 05/19/16 07:29 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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They should still pasteurize them to order. That's a lazy excuse IMO for a vendor.
If you are going to spawn to a tray and put it in a room, no need for micropore tape. Something will still probably get in regardless. If it contams, nothing else to do. At least you tried, you would still have to remove some poo to make room for the grains to inoculate the bag so you might as well try it. But as I said, he should have enough spawn to spawn the tray and inoculate the bag with sterility before he opens it. Once it's open, you never know.
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mary fairchild
Pantheist

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#23247298 - 05/19/16 07:44 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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I know, that last sentence was stretching credibility, thats why I said I wouldn't do it.
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: mary fairchild]
#23247319 - 05/19/16 07:48 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Best place to buy manure if you can't get it for free is the composted/dried one from shops, nothing like pasteurizing your own sub to have some peace of mind. It isn't all that expensive here IIRC. We used to sell it when Iworked in a pet shop/agri shop. I haven't seen it since then but Inever really asked for it either.
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mary fairchild
Pantheist

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#23247412 - 05/19/16 08:08 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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In the states you can get bags of "Composted Steer Manure" or the like in the gardening section of the big box stores but the brands and sources keep changing. As soon as I find something that works its no longer available. Thats why I would rather collect poo in the fields.
Found an interesting "poo with additives recipe: https://www.shroomery.org/9376/Poo-with-Extras
Edited by mary fairchild (05/20/16 11:03 AM)
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Grey
⇜ ✯ ⇝



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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: mary fairchild]
#23248859 - 05/20/16 06:21 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Black kow manure is one of the most common ones I see. It gets muddy, but can be mixed with coir or straw. Macmerdin uses it in his pan cakes tek. well manure, not black kow specifically.
Don't forget about zoo's. They sell/giveaway poo sometimes.
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Grey]
#23248954 - 05/20/16 07:08 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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All poo tends to get muddy, although some more than others I guess.
An update of the epic travesty that is me trying to grow pans.
As I suspected, the best looking culture that I had which was starting to yellow is most probably Galindoi. I must have mislabeled it.
 
The last plate that I managed to get germination from ended up giving me 6 germination spots, hopefully none are molds. They are much better looking than the other 2 cultures I posted about a week/week and a half ago. Still a bit small but you should be able to see that they look organized.
  
These are the ones that I said don't look too good. Really thick mycelium which you can't see through even with a light at the back of the plate. I don't think I will risk putting any of these on grains but I will keep them just in case the other better looking cultures turn out to be bad. The rate at which these are growing is also very suspicious but none have sporulated yet so I am unsure if they are actually molds. Pic in the middle is 2nd transfer that was made from the last pic.
  
This is another culture from a different plate. It was the only germination spot I got from that plate so I am still suspicious. It does look linear and organized though so I don't know what to think about this one.

I am going to make my 2nd transfer of the ones that came all from the same plate, the ones which I think ought to be pan mycelium to ensure cleanliness. After that I will grow the plates out and inoculate some jars. Wish me luck.
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