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bertblack
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Jakeoncid419]
#26516763 - 03/04/20 04:01 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Jakeoncid419 said: OK so I did this so you guys can see the difference the fruiting chamber makes. I feel like there are a lot of people that think as long as they follow the rest of the tech to a T they can slack on the FC. I know some people simply don’t have the room or the resources right away and that’s fine here soon I’m going to try and build a mini JOC Chamber And see if I can’t come up with a design for people that fit this category. These trays are both clones in the Jartha they would be canopies almost undoubtably. I did everything the exact same as I normally do except stuck in these in a traditional mono tub instead of the Jartha. Pan Jalisco clone (left) Pan peace river clone right

That's a cool comparison, Can't wait to build a martha one of these days!

-------------------- When in doubt - Bod's Repository
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Prietenul
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Jakeoncid419]
#26516792 - 03/04/20 04:16 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Jakeoncid419 said: Your case is too thick
Is it really? I don't think it's over 1/3 inch. And if so, what is the thing to do now? Toss it? Scrape some casing off? Leave it like that and just wait longer? Look:


Edited by Prietenul (03/04/20 04:20 PM)
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Jakeoncid419
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Prietenul]
#26516802 - 03/04/20 04:22 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Yes that’s too thick. You want to keep it paper thin. I make it as thin as I possibly can. you want to see some mycelium peeking through
-------------------- Natural omt/detox online pant cult classes available last Saturday of every month go to buymeacoffee.com/jakeoncid to sign up (1 on 1 consultations also available JOC PAN TEK CORDYCEPS MILITARIS EXOTICS [
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Prietenul
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Jakeoncid419]
#26516812 - 03/04/20 04:26 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Jakeoncid419 said: Yes that’s too thick. You want to keep it paper thin. I make it as thin as I possibly can. you want to see some mycelium peeking through

All right. I wouldn't have thought of that. No chance. Thanks again Jake 
What should I do now? Wait longer? Scrape some casing off? Or just toss it and start over? Is there any chance of still getting some fruits?
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Jakeoncid419
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Prietenul]
#26516826 - 03/04/20 04:33 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Harvest what you have scrape some off spray down really well place back in fruiting chamber
-------------------- Natural omt/detox online pant cult classes available last Saturday of every month go to buymeacoffee.com/jakeoncid to sign up (1 on 1 consultations also available JOC PAN TEK CORDYCEPS MILITARIS EXOTICS [
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Prietenul
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Jakeoncid419]
#26516840 - 03/04/20 04:41 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Jakeoncid419 said: Harvest what you have scrape some off spray down really well place back in fruiting chamber
There's nothing to harvest 
Ok, I'll do that.
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Asura
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Jakeoncid419] 1
#26516845 - 03/04/20 04:45 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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@Preitenul I've run trays with casing that thick and even thicker. 2mm-4mm thick or so.

I don't think that's the cause of whatever issue you are having. A major cause at least.
But I do like the casing thinner like jake says, because it's easier to keep WET.
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Prietenul
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Asura]
#26516851 - 03/04/20 04:51 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Asura said: @Preitenul I've run trays with casing that thick and even thicker. 2mm-4mm thick or so.

I don't think that's the cause of whatever issue you are having. A major cause at least.
But I do like the casing thinner like jake says, because it's easier to keep WET.
Yep, I'm working according to the TEK in your signature. Still I don't know why I'm at day 8-9 and still don't see pins. Just that little spots of overlay.
I read in one of Mary's grow logs that it took her 9 days for pins but that was Pan Bisporus. I have Cyan Jams. No idea if that makes a difference for pinning.
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Jakeoncid419
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Prietenul]
#26516859 - 03/04/20 04:55 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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It could also partially be genetics some genetics are better at pushing through then others. Keeping casing that is that thick as wet as it should be also risks starving your sub for oxygen. Ultimately your issue is you don’t have enough evaporation taking place or where it is evaporating from is on the surface of the casing and it’s not effecting your sub. The consistency of your casing could make a difference to if yours is a little more dense than what Azurá had done then it caused issues
-------------------- Natural omt/detox online pant cult classes available last Saturday of every month go to buymeacoffee.com/jakeoncid to sign up (1 on 1 consultations also available JOC PAN TEK CORDYCEPS MILITARIS EXOTICS [
Edited by Jakeoncid419 (03/04/20 04:56 PM)
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Prietenul
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Jakeoncid419]
#26516865 - 03/04/20 04:57 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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That makes sense. I used Jiffy Mix (had some lying around) but Asura has his own recipe...
I'll need to get the stuff to make my own casing and just apply it thinner.
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Asura
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Prietenul]
#26516909 - 03/04/20 05:19 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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From your pics, that culture does not look too good. That shaving cream looking myc is never a good sign. The fact that it hasn't completely overrun the casing is in your favor.
See the the tufts of myc at the base of the stipes in my pic? That built up after pin development. On some trays the initial pins look they they are just popping up out of dirt. On other trays there might be some light wispy myc on parts of the surface.
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Prietenul
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Asura]
#26516960 - 03/04/20 05:47 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Asura said: From your pics, that culture does not look too good. That shaving cream looking myc is never a good sign. The fact that it hasn't completely overrun the casing is in your favor.
I have some clean Pan on agar. Will start over and try again. Now that I have all the tools needed, it'll go easier. This one was still trial and error (dialing in martha, setting up controllers, relocating fog hose many times....). Next one will work.
Quote:
See the the tufts of myc at the base of the stipes in my pic? That built up after pin development. On some trays the initial pins look they they are just popping up out of dirt. On other trays there might be some light wispy myc on parts of the surface.
That's good to know. I was constantly watching those white overlays on the surface, waiting for pins to show up. Then I guess I'll have to monitor the casing. That will make it hard to spot the pins. I've never seen a Pan-pin in real life 
While the LC gets done, I'll let these trays in the FC and see if something pops up.
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jcm4620
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Prietenul]
#26517058 - 03/04/20 06:24 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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there is a good chance that may end up overlaying like this pic of some jams i had the same problem with. im not as familiar with pans as jake and asura are but i do know that every single time i had growth like that id end up with shit like the pic that never fruited
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Prietenul
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: jcm4620]
#26517064 - 03/04/20 06:30 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
jcm4620 said: there is a good chance that may end up overlaying like this pic of some jams i had the same problem with. im not as familiar with pans as jake and asura are but i do know that every single time i had growth like that id end up with shit like the pic that never fruited

As I understand it, that's simply genetics. Nothing you can do about it, right?
Edit: Or too many nutes in the casing
Edited by Prietenul (03/04/20 06:35 PM)
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jcm4620
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Prietenul]
#26517090 - 03/04/20 06:36 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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ya for the most part these jams were terrible for that and it took a while b4 i had good growth that i could use on grains. but i even had a few that looked good on plates and colonized my bulk fine but when i cased it just overlayed like that. im so glad i saved my good jam cultures cuz that shit startting from spores for me was a nightmare. however now looking back it really did help me out getting the eye for pan myc so in the end it was a good thing
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Prietenul
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: jcm4620]
#26517103 - 03/04/20 06:41 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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I have some Bisporus in the plates. Just waiting to make the final transfer and let them grow a bit, then I'll post some pictures. Maybe someone else can spot the best myc...
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Prietenul
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Prietenul]
#26518565 - 03/05/20 12:23 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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It's so frustrating. I can't seem to get definite answer on how the RH for pans should be in the GH.
Apart from the TEKs that don't state the RH conditions at all, you have many different values throughout the forum. Just some of them:
- some say ~95% but let it drop to at least 88% (so 88%-95%) (Jake)
- others say 97-98% before pinning, 96-97% after pinning (Mary)
- again others seem to imply ~97-99% before pinning, then reducing it to 92-95% after pinning (Asura)
- according to the Pans FAQ it's 95%+ during pinning and 85-92% during cropping (Stamets)
- some say 79-94% RH (spiritlands)
I find this very confusing.
So do you guys think it is possible to establish a common baseline? Can we clear up somehow if it is better to drop RH into the 80ies or keep it constantly up at around 95+? Some discussion may be needed but I think it's worth it.
I think this (and in many other cases) is an inherent problem of providing cultivation information in the form of a forum. A forum is for discussion not for information/knowledge management. That would be the purpose of a wiki...
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Asura
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Prietenul]
#26518583 - 03/05/20 12:37 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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The thing is you can't just plug in numbers. I talk about this a lot in my write up. It's all about managing the conditions and learning how everything in your environment affects everything else.
You're going to want the RH as high as you can get it without flooding your trays. How does temp affect that? How does FAE affect that? How does the moisture already in your fresh air affect that?
There's just a lot of things to track and get a feel for and you learn it by doing grows.
That's just my opinion.
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shroompy
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Prietenul]
#26518585 - 03/05/20 12:37 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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If I'm getting it tight it's not alone a RH% question. Think about nature... It won't be able to hold RH% or temperature as good as we can in a GH.
If I'm understanding it right it's all about inducing hyphal knots, which happens when evaporation occurs and at the same time keeping the cake with enough water to be able to create fruits.
Evaporation happens with FAE and/or temperature. FAE has a way to lower your temperature, depending on how the temperature is outside of your tent. (in my experience) so be careful not to cool all down to much. Having a high temperature in the tent allows for easier evaporation without a lot of FAE. But it also dries out the cake.
So it's not about absolute values, but more about having it wet enough, warm enough and FAEed enough so that hyphal knots can build, and then keep it wet enough for fruits to grow.
Am I right?
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Prietenul
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: shroompy]
#26518612 - 03/05/20 12:52 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
shroompy said: If I'm getting it tight it's not alone a RH% question. Think about nature... It won't be able to hold RH% or temperature as good as we can in a GH.
If I'm understanding it right it's all about inducing hyphal knots, which happens when evaporation occurs and at the same time keeping the cake with enough water to be able to create fruits.
Evaporation happens with FAE and/or temperature. FAE has a way to lower your temperature, depending on how the temperature is outside of your tent. (in my experience) so be careful not to cool all down to much. Having a high temperature in the tent allows for easier evaporation without a lot of FAE. But it also dries out the cake.
So it's not about absolute values, but more about having it wet enough, warm enough and FAEed enough so that hyphal knots can build, and then keep it wet enough for fruits to grow.
Am I right?
I don't think you understand my question. Of course it has to be warm enough, wet enough and you have to give it enough FAE. Nobody questions that.
But you have some values that need to be met for certain species, or you would not need a FAQ with growth parameters for cubes, pans, certain edibles, ...
In my opinion it makes a huge difference if I keep RH between 79-94% or if I keep it between 96-97% and 97-98% all the time.
I know you can play with other parameters and thus a specific 100% correct value will not exist for all setups. But you definitely can specify a certain value that is reasonable.
And if there are different opinions why one would be better than the other, I would like to hear them. Then maybe we could find a conclusion on what the TCs and seasoned growers will settle on.
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