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Jakeoncid419
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: jbgtaa]
#26240442 - 10/09/19 02:12 PM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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As long as it’s properly aged it will be fine you want to poo to be dry and fluffy, wet black cow diesel smelling manure will not work. Fresh poo won’t work (at least not anywhere near as well) I have a pile I leave outside that I turn over with a shovel every few days. I get mine loaded into trash cans from a feed store but if all u can find is the online stuff if it’s not aged properly you can always age it, but often times as long as it’s not fresh and wet you can compensate non optimal poo with extra straw and get a ok yield but properly aged and mixed poo makes a big difference
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Toxic enigma
High priest of his own madness



Registered: 05/26/19
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: jbgtaa]
#26240542 - 10/09/19 03:03 PM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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The first one is what I have, far as I can tell it should be good.
-------------------- The goal of life is not to arrive safely at the grave, but rather to slide in side ways yelling " holy crap what a ride". CAUTION: contents under pressure, highly volatile, may contain language of a vulgar, subversive or blasphemous nature, handle with care, point away from face when opening.
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jbgtaa
extraterrestrial



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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Toxic enigma]
#26240548 - 10/09/19 03:07 PM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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I have a hunch it's sufficient but JOC is sketching me out
-------------------- If the thunder don't get ya, the lightning will. In another time's forgotten space, your eyes looked through your mother's face. Trade List Forever giving away prints. PM at anytime for a free print.
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Jakeoncid419
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: jbgtaa]
#26240588 - 10/09/19 03:27 PM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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Odds are it’s fine or you can make it fine just def don’t get black kow manure
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Asura
Cyantist


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Jakeoncid419]
#26240650 - 10/09/19 04:00 PM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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Shroom Supply poo is mostly what I use. It's absolutely perfect for what we are trying to do here.
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spiritlands



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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Jakeoncid419]
#26240703 - 10/09/19 04:25 PM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Jakeoncid419 said: Odds are it’s fine or you can make it fine just def don’t get black kow manure
I just bought a bunch of mixed steer manure. What is wrong with black cow manure? The last time I used manure I had a huge bag of turkey shit and it was awesome. I'm also looking for straw locally, I know where to go I just haven't got there yet. I'm going to follow a couple teks to the letter but I'm wondering how important the straw is, is it a fruiting requirement or is it just for better flushes?
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High Night Expanse
Vast Embrace ♬

Registered: 11/07/18
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: spiritlands]
#26240739 - 10/09/19 04:48 PM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
spiritlands said:
Quote:
Jakeoncid419 said: Odds are it’s fine or you can make it fine just def don’t get black kow manure
I just bought a bunch of mixed steer manure. What is wrong with black cow manure? The last time I used manure I had a huge bag of turkey shit and it was awesome. I'm also looking for straw locally, I know where to go I just haven't got there yet. I'm going to follow a couple teks to the letter but I'm wondering how important the straw is, is it a fruiting requirement or is it just for better flushes?
Cut your lawn if you have one and use the grass clippings, or go road side and snag some grass lol. I cut lawns on the side & bag up the grass.
oh what a lovely job, going the extra mile!
Its not important for fruiting, its just one more useful substrate.
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spiritlands



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Ha, I wouldn't call it the extra mile. I just think it's funny when ppl are going to try something different and instead of following directions they want to start changing things. I'll buy whatever I need to do it right, I just didn't want that stigma attached to my straw question. The straw should be waiting for me when I get home.
 I've grown bioluminescent and cubes on straw, I just haven't used it for pans yet
Edited by spiritlands (10/09/19 05:21 PM)
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Jakeoncid419
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: spiritlands]
#26241042 - 10/09/19 06:57 PM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
spiritlands said:
Quote:
Jakeoncid419 said: Odds are it’s fine or you can make it fine just def don’t get black kow manure
I just bought a bunch of mixed steer manure. What is wrong with black cow manure? The last time I used manure I had a huge bag of turkey shit and it was awesome. I'm also looking for straw locally, I know where to go I just haven't got there yet. I'm going to follow a couple teks to the letter but I'm wondering how important the straw is, is it a fruiting requirement or is it just for better flushes?
Black cow menu or is often thick and dense pans are already prone to going anaerobic so you want a fluffy substrate that’s why we keep them under 3 inches thick also the straw helps fluff it up even more fluffier the more air can get through and the better your overall yields will be
-------------------- Natural omt/detox online pant cult classes available last Saturday of every month go to buymeacoffee.com/jakeoncid to sign up (1 on 1 consultations also available JOC PAN TEK CORDYCEPS MILITARIS EXOTICS [
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Psilotyl
נָזִיר


Registered: 08/30/19
Posts: 469
Loc: עולם
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Quote:
Jakeoncid419 said: Yeah it will definitely come up without a casing I’ve had trays that when I opened to put the case down there we’re already pins coming up but it does help get a better yield and larger pin sets
Quote:
High Night Expanse said:
Quote:
Psilotyl said: So with regard to casing for this species, I have gathered that it is an absolute must. In Stamet's "The Mushroom Cultivator" it indicates as much, as does all the information on this thread with the beautiful results I am seeing by you all to back it up.
It is interesting that in Dr. Steven Pollock's now long out of print book "Magic Mushroom Cultivation" (I managed to find a .pdf) he recommends NOT casing Panaeolus. I'm going to chalk this up to the book being outdated (it came out around the same time as the McKenna's book - late 70's - when at home Cubensis growing was still extremely new). The argument could also be made that the guy was a bit of a kook, despite his great accomplishment in discovering Tampensis and apparent proficiency in Cubensis growing (which he oddly calls "San Isidro" - never heard that one until reading). Anyway, Pollock is a very mysterious figure indeed, given he is the only figure I am aware of from the era of early enthusiasts to meet in untimely end in the form of mysterious and grisly murder - but that's a whole other subject. Perhaps for all he was, a competent Copelandia grower might not have been one of them.
Getting back to the point: Is there a general consensus on how to case? Different methods that are working for different folks? Waylit Jim's TEK seems to be favored. Should I case with pasteurized cactus mix? How are you guys doing it?
Any pointers would be appreciated. My short time on Shroomery thus far has been superb - I am really enjoying it here. I'm continuing to read though this dense and informative thread, which likely contains all the answers I need. Just have that "new grower" lost feeling a little, since after all it is a new species for me.. For any info shared - thanks in advance, and happy growing 
To answer the question no it doesnt need a casing, its simply the common consensus on how we do it, it helps. Iv used a few different casings, leaf litter, coconut, humus... once it holds moisture, doesnt contaminate easily over a few flushes, and is easy for the mycelium to grow through eg not chunky, then you could probably use many mediums to case.
Ill just be that guy that tickles us into questioning everything we thought we knew, forgive me... No offense meant what so ever to anyone, id rather people not get too set onto one way of doing things, not yet.
Honestly it seems to me we are just beginning to understand this species.
From my abundance of hyphal knots
and lack of canopies  
to my first grow which i did not case, pure straw uncased. Oh gosh! what is this lol.
To the amazing canopies of noodle pans, and the lovely canopies of thick fruit, which none would complain of! Alas mother nature shows she still has the biggest.
No it doesnt need a casing, its simply the common consensus on how we do it, it helps.
They usually dont have a casing in the wild.
I appreciate everyone who posts pics here, lets not stop learning & questioning ourselves & be careful with certain statements, in this case - casings, or say old books are bunk.
Even TMC still has adequate info "Chopped wheat straw pasteurized in a hot water bath at 160 ° for 20-30 minutes, cooled and spawned" - basically all I do except its sterilized, no spawning necessary.
The more people testing the edges, the more we see, the more we learn. I love the noodle pans, excellent just wish they'd open up, What ever you are doing keep doing it, maybe give extra fresh air when the shrooms are half the height of maturity. The cool shrooms with blueing stems I wish someone could point that out and help.
There is so much going on here that we can all learn from our differences, mistakes and successes, and it helps if we're not all doing the same thing or thinking the same necessarily limited ideas.

Okay interesting, thanks for the info guys. I think I will case mine lightly with 50/50 spagnum peat/verm and some lime so the PH is around 7.5 or so and keep my fingers crossed. Starting my Marta builds next week as well
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High Night Expanse
Vast Embrace ♬

Registered: 11/07/18
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: spiritlands]
#26242025 - 10/10/19 07:55 AM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
spiritlands said: Ha, I wouldn't call it the extra mile. I just think it's funny when ppl are going to try something different and instead of following directions they want to start changing things. I'll buy whatever I need to do it right, I just didn't want that stigma attached to my straw question. The straw should be waiting for me when I get home.
 I've grown bioluminescent and cubes on straw, I just haven't used it for pans yet
Not sure who's directions you think we should follow, I read a lot of books, front to back. Over 2000 species and over 800 photos? hehe *rubs hands together*
And everyone here has added to our knowledge pool.
Raking up cut grass & bagging it up is going the extra mile, around here a person is lucky if they get the paved surfaces swept after the job. Dont misunderstand, and I hope I didn't misunderstand you.
We're not worrying about stigmas in here, trying for progress. #NoShame
The reason I keep saying straw straw straw, is because I am consciously thinking of the other people around the world, in even more remote places than mine.
Maybe they haven't got manure, maybe they cant access decent grains, no access to vermiculite, no perlite, maybe they're in suburbia with little to no money.
They simply have to find another way and this...
Its too easy, anyone can go outside clip some grass with a knife, dry it, sterilize it or pasteurize it and presto, ready substrate which Pans love.
Respect to the guys with the non straw substrate prep on point, and to the guys with the grow tents dialed in, and the amount of work that goes into that. Shoot it looks fun!
In my experience the fruiting chamber doesnt need to be high tech, nor the substrate complicated, and as we see many natural casings work.
I want to continually highlight this because people around the world in worse off situations will benefit.
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High Night Expanse
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Psilotyl]
#26242028 - 10/10/19 07:56 AM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Psilotyl said: Okay interesting, thanks for the info guys. I think I will case mine lightly with 50/50 spagnum peat/verm and some lime so the PH is around 7.5 or so and keep my fingers crossed. Starting my Marta builds next week as well
Good luck man
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Psilotyl
נָזִיר


Registered: 08/30/19
Posts: 469
Loc: עולם
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Quote:
High Night Expanse said:
Quote:
Psilotyl said: Okay interesting, thanks for the info guys. I think I will case mine lightly with 50/50 spagnum peat/verm and some lime so the PH is around 7.5 or so and keep my fingers crossed. Starting my Marta builds next week as well
Good luck man
Thank you sir. I have a good feeling.
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spiritlands



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Well I'll be following asura's Tek in the beginning of the thread and then I'll be doing Jakeonacids's way side by side. I don't know if I'm being impatient but there's no growth on these agar and it's been almost a week. I had a couple spots of bacteria show up in other plates so I'm going to start again this weekend but with gloves and a mask. I think a little bacteria is better than mold contams. This place doesn't have carpet which is nice.
I started some cubes at the same time in this agar and they show no growth either. But I did my first transfer of some cubes and they are doing fine. Perfectly uniform growth. I'm just going to toss any that even seem bad and do it again. These prints are from 2013.
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Jakeoncid419
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: spiritlands]
#26243076 - 10/10/19 04:14 PM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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If you don’t see germ in 7-10 days it’s dud. What’s ur agar recipe?
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spiritlands



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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Jakeoncid419]
#26243100 - 10/10/19 04:27 PM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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I usually just use a splash of beer but I have maltdextrose too. This batch is beer+snake shit. I think I'm being impatient but I may as well make more while I'm waiting just in case. The snake shit is just an experiment. It's the constancy of bird poop but it dries fast and it turns into powder easily. It mixed in with the agar with only a few pieces not dissolving.
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Jakeoncid419
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: spiritlands]
#26243111 - 10/10/19 04:31 PM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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Interesting l? Although that may be ur problem. Most times simple malt will work but I’ve found difficult ones response best to peptone. I have a few different recipes I use but for pans I like peptone some potatoe starch a pinch of yeast extract, some malt and a little gentamicin. But most of that is just me experimenting too my dishes do move very quick & I like the recipe but it’s def the peptone that makes the big difference as for the rest I still need more experimenting to determine for sure if they make any difference
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spiritlands



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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Jakeoncid419]
#26243142 - 10/10/19 04:44 PM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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The cubes I transferred like it. The other thing I did different was I poured those thinner than I usually do, I wonder if there agar isn't as moist there. I've heard about peptone but never used it don't know what it's for but I'll buy some if I need to. I have yeast extract too. I'll make these next ones more like yours and try again. I can make up a syringe if I must in order to rehydrate the spores but I usually don't bother with syringes.
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Grimsweeper
don't fear the sweeper


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: spiritlands]
#26243453 - 10/10/19 07:24 PM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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I've been at this a few years and I read a lot about people not getting germination from spores. All I can say is all I use is MEA and I've never NOT had germination within 3 days on dozens of spores. Maybe I'm lucky but that's my experience.
Have lift off on my Pan Aussie LC to sterile hpoo/oat/hydrated grain water experiment. Looking like I could've gave it a bigger shot of LC.
Edited by Grimsweeper (10/10/19 08:50 PM)
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Asura
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Grimsweeper]
#26243593 - 10/10/19 08:52 PM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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Both times that I didn't get germination, the print was over 10 years old. Other than that, it's always 3-4 days.
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