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OfflineHigh Night Expanse
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Puduwoke]
    #26237980 - 10/08/19 01:42 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

Iv been having a real dry period trying out new stuff, searching for natural, non imported substrates i can shake. Found out pure coconut doesnt work, coconut + guinea grass seed doesnt work, and still no fruit from my shoe box T.T (manure substrate + coconut).

And now im going back to what works well for me, pure straw!



The ones on the right are straw + coconut at a low ratio, still trying to get the shake down. There's really no need but I just want to do it lol.  I put some culture on straw in a small jar, expanded it to more small jars to use for inoculations. And that seems to be fine for my needs.  The myc really fuzzes up and jumps off straw quickly.

Probably going to make more and try more stuff soon (all straw shoe box!? lol) but right now i will stick to what works for me using pure straw & small tubs, get out of this dry streak. The wild guys & my slug city unpastuerized manure patch are up in force right now but it wont last.


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OfflineHigh Night Expanse
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Psilotyl]
    #26238534 - 10/08/19 06:11 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Psilotyl said:
So with regard to casing for this species, I have gathered that it is an absolute must. In Stamet's "The Mushroom Cultivator" it indicates as much, as does all the information on this thread with the beautiful results I am seeing by you all to back it up.

It is interesting that in Dr. Steven Pollock's now long out of print book "Magic Mushroom Cultivation" (I managed to find a .pdf) he recommends NOT casing Panaeolus. I'm going to chalk this up to the book being outdated (it came out around the same time as the McKenna's book - late 70's - when at home Cubensis growing was still extremely new). The argument could also be made that the guy was a bit of a kook, despite his great accomplishment in discovering Tampensis and apparent proficiency in Cubensis growing (which he oddly calls "San Isidro" - never heard that one until reading). Anyway, Pollock is a very mysterious figure indeed, given he is the only figure I am aware of from the era of early enthusiasts to meet in untimely end in the form of mysterious and grisly murder - but that's a whole other subject. Perhaps for all he was, a competent Copelandia grower might not have been one of them.

Getting back to the point: Is there a general consensus on how to case? Different methods that are working for different folks? Waylit Jim's TEK seems to be favored. Should I case with pasteurized cactus mix? How are you guys doing it?

Any pointers would be appreciated. My short time on Shroomery thus far has been superb - I am really enjoying it here. I'm continuing to read though this dense and informative thread, which likely contains all the answers I need. Just have that "new grower" lost feeling a little, since after all it is a new species for me.. For any info shared - thanks in advance, and happy growing :smile:




To answer the question no it doesnt need a casing, its simply the common consensus on how we do it, it helps. Iv used a few different casings, leaf litter, coconut, humus... once it holds moisture, doesnt contaminate easily over a few flushes, and is easy for the mycelium to grow through eg not chunky, then you could probably use many mediums to case.

Ill just be that guy that tickles us into questioning everything we thought we knew, forgive me... No offense meant what so ever to anyone, id rather people not get too set onto one way of doing things, not yet.

Honestly it seems to me we are just beginning to understand this species.

From my abundance of hyphal knots

and lack of canopies

to my first grow which i did not case, pure straw uncased. Oh gosh! what is this lol.

To the amazing canopies of noodle pans,  and the lovely canopies of thick fruit, which none would complain of! Alas mother nature shows she still has the biggest. 

No it doesnt need a casing, its simply the common consensus on how we do it, it helps.

They usually dont have a casing in the wild. 

I appreciate everyone who posts pics here, lets not stop learning & questioning ourselves & be careful with certain statements, in this case - casings, or say old books are bunk.

Even TMC still has adequate info "Chopped wheat straw pasteurized in a hot water bath at 160 ° for 20-30 minutes, cooled and spawned" - basically all I do except its sterilized, no spawning necessary.

The more people testing the edges, the more we see, the more we learn. I love the noodle pans, excellent just wish they'd open up, What ever you are doing keep doing it, maybe give extra fresh air when the shrooms are half the height of maturity. The cool shrooms with blueing stems I wish someone could point that out and help.

There is so much going on here that we can all learn from our differences, mistakes and successes, and it helps if we're not all doing the same thing or thinking the same necessarily limited ideas.

:peace:


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OfflineJakeoncid419
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: High Night Expanse] * 1
    #26238559 - 10/08/19 06:23 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah it will definitely come up without a casing I’ve had trays that when I opened to put the case down there we’re already pins coming up but it does help get a better yield and larger pin sets


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OfflineMacMerdin
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Jakeoncid419]
    #26238593 - 10/08/19 06:37 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Jakeoncid419 said:
Yeah it will definitely come up without a casing I’ve had trays that when I opened to put the case down there we’re already pins coming up but it does help get a better yield and larger pin sets




:whathesaid:

Although I was unaware pans can go without a casing.  In the wild, they do better with a microclimate of taller grasses.  Which is basically what a casing tries to imitate. 

It just helps a whole lot better.  Even cubes.  People found that rolling their cakes in verm made for a better pinset.

To each their own though.


--------------------
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Edited by MacMerdin (10/08/19 06:38 PM)


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Offlinefightingcherries
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: MacMerdin]
    #26238935 - 10/08/19 09:12 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

I got 9 20 liter "shoebox" (the slightly bigger shoebox) monos going right now.  I have two 1" diameter drilled holes on the ends lengthwise, taped over once with 3M micropore.  They all colonized and were cased.  Now I'm just waiting.  I mist once a day.  Is that too much?  Also, the lids are on.  Is this enough FAE?  Used to cubes.  This exact set up works awesome for my cubes.  I have mosquito nets over the lids, which is great for keeping out fungus gnats.


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OfflineCrackatoa
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: fightingcherries]
    #26238936 - 10/08/19 09:13 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

Doesn't mean it's gonna work for pans, I'm hoping for you. I haven't figured them out myself


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Edited by Crackatoa (10/08/19 09:15 PM)


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OfflineJakeoncid419
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: fightingcherries]
    #26239096 - 10/08/19 10:59 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

fightingcherries said:
I got 9 20 liter "shoebox" (the slightly bigger shoebox) monos going right now.  I have two 1" diameter drilled holes on the ends lengthwise, taped over once with 3M micropore.  They all colonized and were cased.  Now I'm just waiting.  I mist once a day.  Is that too much?  Also, the lids are on.  Is this enough FAE?  Used to cubes.  This exact set up works awesome for my cubes.  I have mosquito nets over the lids, which is great for keeping out fungus gnats.



Pans like more evaporation and fae you might get a few fruits but optimal conditions for pans are very different than they are for cubes, also don’t mist your fruits if you get pins you will have to hand water with a syringe if you get the pins wet they will die


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Edited by Jakeoncid419 (10/08/19 11:00 PM)


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OfflineAdas
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Jakeoncid419]
    #26239923 - 10/09/19 10:38 AM (4 years, 3 months ago)

I have managed to revive old Bisporus spores using a very questionable method, but with amazing results. I'm giving it another go. In my garden they always popped out from between bricks, which indicates they love to pin from well-covered, very humid spots. They also don't mind water on the caps.

In my next try, I'm casing with straight dirt, and on top of that I will put tiny stones in attempt of recreating that microclimate.


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Offlinespiritlands
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Adas]
    #26239960 - 10/09/19 10:57 AM (4 years, 3 months ago)

Can you elaborate on the questionable method? The suspense is killing me?
:doublejointed:


--------------------


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OfflineAdas
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: spiritlands]
    #26240012 - 10/09/19 11:24 AM (4 years, 3 months ago)

They refused to germinate on grain water agar, so I wanted to hydrate them in a syringe. Sterilized some water, dropped a shitload of spores into it, and wanted to suck it up into a syringe. Lo and behold, syringe broke. So I left the liquid sitting on a shelf for some time, and noticed a cloudy fuzz around it. Took it right back into the SAB, poured off the water and scooped out all (yes, ALL) of that nasty spore-myc goo which looked more like snot.

Put it on agar, with ZERO contams, and beautiful myc. Talk about some fucking luck.


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Offlinejbgtaa
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Adas]
    #26240019 - 10/09/19 11:28 AM (4 years, 3 months ago)

wait wut? the spores germed on completely sterile water even after failing to germ on agar? and didnt contaminate in open air?

The first part sounds actually impossible, but the second part is definitely some good luck your part!


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OfflineAdas
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: jbgtaa]
    #26240056 - 10/09/19 11:41 AM (4 years, 3 months ago)

Didn't handle anything open-air, but still. You would expect at least some mold in that amount of spores.

The first part surprises me as well, maybe they better germinate in just pure water for whatever reason. And people have had spores germ in syringes, not a new thing at all.


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Offlinejbgtaa
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Adas]
    #26240108 - 10/09/19 12:05 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

How is it possible for germination to occur on plain water though? Sterilized at that? It should be completely inert and non nutritive at that point, how in the fuck did the spores germ? Maybe just pure hydration busted the protein wall idk shounds werid as a motherfucker though, try it again!!!


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OfflineAdas
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: jbgtaa]
    #26240115 - 10/09/19 12:08 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

The spores should be a bit like seed and contain a minimal amount of their own nutrients.


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Offlinejbgtaa
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Adas] * 1
    #26240136 - 10/09/19 12:17 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

Truly beautiful.


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Offlinefightingcherries
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Jakeoncid419]
    #26240280 - 10/09/19 01:17 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

You think I should drill more holes?  Or maybe flip the lids?  Don't really have the option to use a fogger as of now.  I saw your tek though and it looks awesome.  Would love to try it one day.  Clearly it works.  I have to make these monos work somehow.


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OfflineJakeoncid419
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: fightingcherries]
    #26240294 - 10/09/19 01:22 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

I run a mix of cow a horse poo I still cut in shredded strW & about 60%


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Offlinejbgtaa
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Jakeoncid419]
    #26240298 - 10/09/19 01:25 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

How dos everyone feel about the dry shredded horse manure from one of our trusted vendors? not sure if i can mention the name but its the one alot of us use. It's not some "use out of the bag" kit substrate, it needs to be pastuerized as stated on the site (i think) but has anyone had good results with that stuff? lemme find a link real quick

Here we go, This is the one im wondering about the quality, butttttt

I think This might be cheaper.

Has anyone used either of those for pan substrate, or is it smarter to just go buy a bag of black kow or scotts or some manure from home depot?


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Edited by jbgtaa (10/09/19 01:28 PM)


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OfflineToxic enigma
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: jbgtaa]
    #26240318 - 10/09/19 01:32 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

If it's the one I think you are talking about  , I got some. Haven't had the chance to use it yet though.


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Offlinejbgtaa
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Toxic enigma]
    #26240338 - 10/09/19 01:38 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

The one i was planning to buy until 45 min ago is the first link i linked. The second one i just found while searching for the first one and i think it's cheaper, but im not sure which one of those two vendors is more reputable, a d more importantly i dont know if any actual cultivators have used it successfully. Seems like a very simple (and cheap) solution to alot of the problems associated with dung enriched substrates.


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