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345536345
Pan parent!



Registered: 08/13/17
Posts: 268
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Asura]
#25817648 - 02/16/19 08:23 PM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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Good to hear - thanks Asura.
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Jakeoncid419
Follow me.....



Registered: 06/26/18
Posts: 4,390
Loc: Basel Switzerland
Last seen: 1 day, 13 hours
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: 345536345]
#25817665 - 02/16/19 08:34 PM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rad Aghast said: sorry -no I didn't mean growing out of the bag.
I meant place the growing container in the bag - sterilize the whole shooting match - substrate, and growth tray together.
No transfer to a tray - just inoculate, colonize, case.
Sure I suppose as long as u can fit it in ur pc it would be fine, I can see the benefits of a no touch tek but ime contamination is not the #1 reason people fail. People fail because 1.) they make their case too thick 2.) they don’t dial in proper FC Pan myc is extremely fast moving provided your pasteurization/sterilization was successful the pan myc should run thru ur sub before anything else has a prayer.Quote:
345536345 said: I'm dialing in my GH for pans - sound about right so far?
Setup:
- Standard 4-tier GH
- Ultrasonic (connected to InkBird) - set to 99% with 1.5%RH variance to kick back on. Once pinning I plan to set to 95%
- Seed mats (also connected to InkBird) - temp 75%
- Wicking humidifier and waterproof PC case fan (both connected to timer)
My main question is around FAE. I can kick on the wicking humidifier and PC fan for fresh air and air movement but doing so drops the temp down pretty quickly. The "outside" air coming in from the bottom is around 65* so after running both for a 5-6 min it drops the GH temp down to that and it takes about 10 min to come back up to 75*. I suspect the trays, etc will have their own heat mass and so the actual sub is not likely to fluctuate that much.
I was planning to kick on the fan and wicking humidifier to change out the air once an hour or two hours. Does this sound good? Too much / too little FAE? Any concern about the air temp fluctuation?
I agree with asura, u got a good starting point but ur gonna adjust and fail several times before u get it just right. If it were me I’d increase temperature 5 degrees and drop my rh to about 85 for pinning. (You will need spikes of 99 to replenish but hold 95 will drown ur trays)
-------------------- Natural omt/detox online pant cult classes available last Saturday of every month go to buymeacoffee.com/jakeoncid to sign up (1 on 1 consultations also available JOC PAN TEK CORDYCEPS MILITARIS EXOTICS [
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345536345
Pan parent!



Registered: 08/13/17
Posts: 268
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Jakeoncid419]
#25817722 - 02/16/19 09:12 PM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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Thanks Jake. I've already learned a few different ways to fail, but I keep learning more and more each time. Fingers crossed!
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mary fairchild
Pantheist


Registered: 12/06/14
Posts: 777
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: 345536345]
#25817734 - 02/16/19 09:18 PM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
345536345 said: I'm dialing in my GH for pans - sound about right so far?
Setup:
- Standard 4-tier GH
- Ultrasonic (connected to InkBird) - set to 99% with 1.5%RH variance to kick back on. Once pinning I plan to set to 95%
- Seed mats (also connected to InkBird) - temp 75%
- Wicking humidifier and waterproof PC case fan (both connected to timer)
My main question is around FAE. I can kick on the wicking humidifier and PC fan for fresh air and air movement but doing so drops the temp down pretty quickly. The "outside" air coming in from the bottom is around 65* so after running both for a 5-6 min it drops the GH temp down to that and it takes about 10 min to come back up to 75*. I suspect the trays, etc will have their own heat mass and so the actual sub is not likely to fluctuate that much.
I was planning to kick on the fan and wicking humidifier to change out the air once an hour or two hours. Does this sound good? Too much / too little FAE? Any concern about the air temp fluctuation?
You have seedling heat mats inside the GH?
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345536345
Pan parent!



Registered: 08/13/17
Posts: 268
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: mary fairchild]
#25817747 - 02/16/19 09:26 PM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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I do - hanging just below the 3rd shelf and laying on the 2nd shelf. Trays will be on the top and I have a few jars (ATLs) on the 3rd just hanging out in the warmth but could be moved if needed.
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mary fairchild
Pantheist


Registered: 12/06/14
Posts: 777
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: 345536345]
#25817762 - 02/16/19 09:46 PM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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Is there a way you could use a closet or a small room and heat the closet/space the GH is in rather than heating the inside of the GH? I use a couple of big seed mats to help heat a closet space. With that big temperature difference between the inside and the outside there will be a lot of condensation. Someone on the site did it that way and it did work for him but the walls of the GH were constantly dripping. I'd also be concerned with having the localized radiant heat in the GH causing big temperature gradients.
I know we have to work with what we have.
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BuffGuts
Golden Rule



Registered: 11/20/17
Posts: 576
Loc: Final Frontier
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: mary fairchild]
#25818162 - 02/17/19 06:24 AM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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Anyone have a good Pan Cyan Tek? Purty please.
-------------------- Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves. Carl Jung
 
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345536345
Pan parent!



Registered: 08/13/17
Posts: 268
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: mary fairchild]
#25818196 - 02/17/19 06:43 AM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
mary fairchild said: Is there a way you could use a closet or a small room and heat the closet/space the GH is in rather than heating the inside of the GH? I use a couple of big seed mats to help heat a closet space. With that big temperature difference between the inside and the outside there will be a lot of condensation. Someone on the site did it that way and it did work for him but the walls of the GH were constantly dripping. I'd also be concerned with having the localized radiant heat in the GH causing big temperature gradients.
I know we have to work with what we have.
So far on my test runs dialing in the GH I get condensation on the walls but not so much that it's running down. We'll see how it goes after a few days of it however. I do have a washer/dryer pan below to catch anything that might fall.
I have a space heater that I may be able to run to help close the temperature gap but I'm holding off on that given it'd need to run pretty constantly and I'm concerned about it tripping the breaker throwing the whole works into disarray. I will keep it in my back pocket however as an option as well as try and think of other alternatives to get the surrounding air consistently warmer. Thanks!
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345536345
Pan parent!



Registered: 08/13/17
Posts: 268
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: BuffGuts]
#25818217 - 02/17/19 06:54 AM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
BuffGuts said: Anyone have a good Pan Cyan Tek? Purty please.
Well - you posted right below a great place to start. Check out Mary's Documented Grows link. She consistently kills it along with Asura. Many of the better pan growers here have used Blue Helix's grows and wisdom as guidance. Asura put together a great thread of his info. What what I can tell and what I read there appears to be a difference of those who can get some fruits (a challenge in itself) and those who can really make them shine. Seems to be a good deal of details to focus on and practice (and timing) to read them right and give them what they need.
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Jakeoncid419
Follow me.....



Registered: 06/26/18
Posts: 4,390
Loc: Basel Switzerland
Last seen: 1 day, 13 hours
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: 345536345] 1
#25818342 - 02/17/19 08:02 AM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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-------------------- Natural omt/detox online pant cult classes available last Saturday of every month go to buymeacoffee.com/jakeoncid to sign up (1 on 1 consultations also available JOC PAN TEK CORDYCEPS MILITARIS EXOTICS [
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Rad Aghast



Registered: 12/07/18
Posts: 133
Loc: Minnesota
Last seen: 4 months, 29 days
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: 345536345]
#25818415 - 02/17/19 08:45 AM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
345536345 said: I'm dialing in my GH for pans - sound about right so far?
Setup:
- Standard 4-tier GH
- Ultrasonic (connected to InkBird) - set to 99% with 1.5%RH variance to kick back on. Once pinning I plan to set to 95%
- Seed mats (also connected to InkBird) - temp 75%
- Wicking humidifier and waterproof PC case fan (both connected to timer)
My main question is around FAE. I can kick on the wicking humidifier and PC fan for fresh air and air movement but doing so drops the temp down pretty quickly. The "outside" air coming in from the bottom is around 65* so after running both for a 5-6 min it drops the GH temp down to that and it takes about 10 min to come back up to 75*. I suspect the trays, etc will have their own heat mass and so the actual sub is not likely to fluctuate that much.
I was planning to kick on the fan and wicking humidifier to change out the air once an hour or two hours. Does this sound good? Too much / too little FAE? Any concern about the air temp fluctuation?
I pretty much have the exact same setup as you except I'm running a "mini" single tier GH in a small 10x10ft room, and I have my temp relay operating a small space heater in the corner of the room. I have a ceiling fan running on low that reduces temp variability in the room. I can hold the room at 82 (+0/-2) no problem. Once the room is at temp the heater doesn't come on all that often. I like the approach you are using because it adds elements of control to the grow and that allows you to run good experiments.
Your temperature issue brings up a question I have been pondering for a while now around the entire concept of FAE. I understand it to mean that fruiting conditions require FAE because (1) it leads to evaporation in the microclimate (MC), and (2) because it eliminates waste gases. Order of importance is: (1) being most important, then (2). What I wonder is if you're already controlling your GH humidity, and its a fairly large (standard 4-tier) GH, cant you just put a pc fan somewhere "near" (but not pointed at) your trays to get the air moving around them? You would entice more evaporation and clear the MC of waste but you wouldn't be introducing a bunch of ambient air that results in temp fluctuations. This is how I interpreted blue-helix's setup... that he was running pc fans in the chamber to get the air in the MC moving... not that he was using them to introduce outside air. I could be wrong on that though.
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Rad Aghast



Registered: 12/07/18
Posts: 133
Loc: Minnesota
Last seen: 4 months, 29 days
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Jakeoncid419]
#25818452 - 02/17/19 09:02 AM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Jakeoncid419 said:

nothing as exciting as that unfortunately 
just an almost colonized jar of cyan-hawaiian carefully guarded by spiritual gurus
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Jakeoncid419
Follow me.....



Registered: 06/26/18
Posts: 4,390
Loc: Basel Switzerland
Last seen: 1 day, 13 hours
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Rad Aghast]
#25818491 - 02/17/19 09:26 AM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rad Aghast said:
Quote:
Jakeoncid419 said:

nothing as exciting as that unfortunately 
just an almost colonized jar of cyan-hawaiian carefully guarded by spiritual gurus

He’ll yeah I lost my Hawaiian culture before I ever got a fruit it was the first pan I tried to run. If you succeed I’d love a print. As far as the discussion talking about maintaining temperature goes I’ve actually been running two different approaches for this so in my tent I pull in warm dry air from up high on the tent The air in my Grove room is warm and dry thanks to a $15 a space heater from Home Depot. Just five minutes every 20 is enough to hold my 80° (Usually sometimes it’s really cold outside and I need a little more) So my fan kicks on pulling warm dry air in and across my trays causing a good bit of evaporation After the fan turns off the warm dry air continues to evaporate the surface moisture of the trays for about 10 minutes at which point the fogger kicks on filling the tent a few min later the fan kicks back on Again pulling in air from up top but this time since the fogger is running and the tent is filled with fog the fan drives all the humid air right into the surface of the trays. This rehydrate them for the dry evaporation cycle that immediately follows. In this System there are constant fluctuations in both humidity and temperature however it seems to be working very well, The HEPA filter keeps my contamination super low and the trays allow for multiple species and a tamps because sometimes (especially with multi spore) you get duds. The other system in the tub’s runs differently it is constantly getting a humid air & enriched oxygen mix, the air is heated and hydrated in an expansion chamber And the fan from the fogger and pressure from the oxygen condenser keeps a constant steady stream. On that same system I also have a bathroom fan attached which kicks on every 10 minutes Which quickly swaps out all of the air in the tub’s and causes a good bit of evaporation. After this fan kicks off a second humidifier which is connected to a smaller expansion chamber kicks on loading the tub with fog. The filters on the tub use the natural design of the mono tub’s thermodynamics to draw in air through the upper end holes which drives the humid air down into the substrate, And is further assisted with this when the fan kicks on it will drive any remaining falling into the substrate then immediately begin it’s evaporation. The more I try and push these parameters the more I realize that to really give these mushrooms what they want you need spikes because you can’t evaporate and hydrate at the same time.
-------------------- Natural omt/detox online pant cult classes available last Saturday of every month go to buymeacoffee.com/jakeoncid to sign up (1 on 1 consultations also available JOC PAN TEK CORDYCEPS MILITARIS EXOTICS [
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Rad Aghast



Registered: 12/07/18
Posts: 133
Loc: Minnesota
Last seen: 4 months, 29 days
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Jakeoncid419]
#25818563 - 02/17/19 10:25 AM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
He’ll yeah I lost my Hawaiian culture before I ever got a fruit it was the first pan I tried to run. If you succeed I’d love a print.
For sure 
It was a pain in the beginning - getting it to germ cost me at least a month. But now I've got myc growing in 3 diff media - oats, LC, and agar - and its tearing it up. I'll get something eventually.
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Asura
Cyantist


Registered: 08/01/11
Posts: 5,047
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 11 days, 17 hours
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Rad Aghast]
#25818645 - 02/17/19 11:21 AM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rad Aghast said:
Quote:
He’ll yeah I lost my Hawaiian culture before I ever got a fruit it was the first pan I tried to run. If you succeed I’d love a print.
For sure 
It was a pain in the beginning - getting it to germ cost me at least a month. But now I've got myc growing in 3 diff media - oats, LC, and agar - and its tearing it up. I'll get something eventually.
Same here, if you can spare a print I'd like one, too. I haven't ever been able to get Hawaiian's going. Bad luck with vendors. Would be nice to get these and some fresh pan jams back in circulation like everyone has done with the Aussie's.
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Brain Bulb
Insane in the Membrane



Registered: 11/09/17
Posts: 1,358
Last seen: 6 months, 23 days
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Asura]
#25818818 - 02/17/19 12:33 PM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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So my Aussie tray just kept putting out aborts. Conditions were set and verified, just didn’t want to fruit so I tried something last night.
I completely removed the existing casing, which was too thick to begin with, and re-cased with straight peat. Not getting my hopes up but figured I have nothing to lose and should document it.
Pics of casing with aborts:

After removing casing:
 
New casing:
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Asura
Cyantist


Registered: 08/01/11
Posts: 5,047
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 11 days, 17 hours
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Brain Bulb]
#25818829 - 02/17/19 12:37 PM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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How shallow is that sub? If those are the 3 quart pyrex trays like I've got, it looks a little thin.
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ChocolateMilk
Mouth Breather



Registered: 04/11/16
Posts: 328
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Asura]
#25818900 - 02/17/19 01:12 PM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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Do y'all recommend the Pyrex dish over metal carry out trays or plastic totes? I see alot with Pyrex and idk what the benefits are?
-------------------- Trade List Panaeolus projects n pics timeline
 Be the party yah wanna go to!
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Asura
Cyantist


Registered: 08/01/11
Posts: 5,047
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 11 days, 17 hours
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: ChocolateMilk]
#25818912 - 02/17/19 01:20 PM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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They're easy to clean for one thing 
But I like them because I can also see what the mycelium is doing under the casing later. Also, they have a depth of about 2 1/4". Which is perfect for a sub + casing layer.
Edit: Forgot to mention this. A wet casing layer is desired for pans, but you don't want the sub itself taking on a lot of water. Glass trays allow you to monitor that as well.
Edited by Asura (02/17/19 01:42 PM)
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nube424


Registered: 12/03/17
Posts: 6,063
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Asura]
#25818958 - 02/17/19 01:44 PM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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And aluminum pans are flimsy. I used them, and regretted it. Pan mycelium doesn't hold the substrate together like cubes. If the pan twists, so will the substrate, and it breaks the mycelium. Then it has to heal itself and is just counter productive. I won't use aluminum pans again that's for sure.
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