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mary fairchild
Pantheist


Registered: 12/06/14
Posts: 777
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Jakeoncid419]
#25763260 - 01/23/19 01:01 PM (5 years, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
Jakeoncid419 said: got a new air pump, heater and a 5 pack of humidity/tempature meters on the way. gonna mod my tub set up even further. with the pump and the o2 condenser I should be able to make all my needed fae internally. the room fan is dropping my temp down more than id like now that its really cold outside and I cant afford to hold temp off house heat. I have two different idea's and im not quite sure which would be better maybe yall can offer sum advice... so I could suck in warm dry air (pump set on a repeat cycle time) which ill have set to blow across the sub. which would cause more evaporation, however I would then need to have the humidifier cranked (honestly I would need to redesign setup of humidifier) to be able to rehydrate the sub so it doesn't get fired. I don't know if this would be to drastic... would I be hitting a point of diminished returns on the "more evaporation the better" concept? my other (and the one im prolly gonna do) is to run the pump into the condensation chamber to come in pre hydrated (like you do in a commercial grow space) this would be less overall evaporation of water from the sub but it would be much less stressfull I feel on the substrate..... anyway what yall think?
Yes the 2nd idea, hitting the sub with dry air is bad. I have to say with all this modification/ automation- I think you are getting away from the true beauty of a mono tub- being its simplicity.
Air movement and evaporation are IMO important for the most optimal results, but still 2ndary in importance to just having the luck of good fruiting genetics. There have been some really nice monotub grows of Pans grown under the same conditions as monotub cubensis grows- with little air movement and likely reduced evaporation.
I pump relatively humid air from a wicking humidifier thru a GH to get air movement- that air is ~80% RH.
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mary fairchild
Pantheist


Registered: 12/06/14
Posts: 777
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: SunnyDayze]
#25763286 - 01/23/19 01:15 PM (5 years, 7 days ago) |
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I do have a couple of options of where i put the GH but the best would be right around my grow area. I put a heater in my room to stop my plates from condensing so bad by keeping the temp steadier. It ranges from 20-22 c (68-72 f). I can keep it closer to 22-24 c if i have to but its my bedroom lol (the blinding lights are my alarm in the mornings).
Dew Point Calculator tells me that i need to have the same temperature at 100% rh. 1.5 degrees less at 95% rh. What is the lowest temp I should keep in the GH?
@Jake, sorry, I'd help if I could!
The lowest temperature- I personally have only done a few grows at less than 80F. I tried Jams at 75F and got a weak yield. Others have grown some Pans at 70ish temperatures- I wouldn't try Jams as I have heard reports of others having troubles at temperatures in the 70's as well- that . Consider one of the temperate species- bisporus or cinctulus- these have been grown in- I think- the low 70's, can you do 75F (24->25C)?.
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mary fairchild
Pantheist


Registered: 12/06/14
Posts: 777
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Quote:
Appalachian Brony said: I’ve failed with cyan and bisporus doin sterilized sub both broken up into trays and fruited from the container like pancakes. Was surely user error regarding one or more of a few different things like too much grain in the mix, too moist, or bad growing conditions though.
Last year I used the same bisporus culture for sterilized sub and grains, the broken up sub didn’t fruit, the straight cased ziploc pints didnt fruit, but the grain spawned to pasteurized sub did.
That’s just my experience though, the best flushes that I’ve seen on here are from Mary, Asura, and BlueHelix and they all seem to do the sterilized sub method along with greenhouses.
I did a "Spawn to Bulk" grow of bisporus ~the holidays:

So thats typically done with agar wedge ->grain->pasteurized substrate- thing is I think bis is a tertiary decomposer- boils down to- give it a long consolidation period- I'm getting ready to put this in the grow logs if I can ever get to it, more details in advance if you'd like.
Edited by mary fairchild (01/23/19 02:29 PM)
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SunnyDayze
Finder of shrubberies



Registered: 12/30/17
Posts: 2,230
Loc: Canada
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I should have researched more but this is how I learn best 😝
My pans are on agar right now so I’m not too deep in. I’d rather try something else for now instead of modifying another place in my house. I’ll probably keep growing them out for experience and save them until I figure out a better set up.
Do you prefer one over the other of those options? I’m just going to go on and order new some prints.
Thanks so much for your help and saving me time and energy!
--------------------
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nube424


Registered: 12/03/17
Posts: 6,063
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: SunnyDayze]
#25763332 - 01/23/19 01:49 PM (5 years, 7 days ago) |
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Long consolidation? How Long? I have 3 trays of bisporus right now and I definitely didn't let them consolidate.
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Mycolorado
Hobbyist


Registered: 07/23/16
Posts: 8,529
Loc: Interdimensional Bootcamp
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: nube424]
#25763354 - 01/23/19 01:58 PM (5 years, 7 days ago) |
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Sick, Mary!
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Caps McGee
Grandaddy Smurfshack



Registered: 10/28/17
Posts: 14,357
Loc: ally known as ...
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Mycolorado]
#25763378 - 01/23/19 02:13 PM (5 years, 7 days ago) |
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I'm down to 3.5g agar powder and 6.5g LME to 500ml of water... so 80% would be 2.8g agar and 5.2g LME to 400ml of water...
I use colonized grain spawn mixed to bucket tek coir only, so technically not pasteurized or sterilized... partial pasteurization
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mary fairchild
Pantheist


Registered: 12/06/14
Posts: 777
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Mycolorado]
#25763379 - 01/23/19 02:14 PM (5 years, 7 days ago) |
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Hey MC, Haven't seen you in awhile- hope your holiday season is going well!
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mary fairchild
Pantheist


Registered: 12/06/14
Posts: 777
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: nube424]
#25763389 - 01/23/19 02:19 PM (5 years, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
nube424 said: Long consolidation? How Long? I have 3 trays of bisporus right now and I definitely didn't let them consolidate. 
So I did a~ 1:2.5 grain spawn to sub ratio and just let it colonize/consolidate at ~70->72F for 32days. So I think they reached 100% ~12->14days and I just let it sit for a TOTAL of 32 days before casing and fruiting conditions.
Edited by mary fairchild (01/23/19 03:18 PM)
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Caps McGee
Grandaddy Smurfshack



Registered: 10/28/17
Posts: 14,357
Loc: ally known as ...
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No pins in 32 days? Sounds like over-saturation/bacterial stalling
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mary fairchild
Pantheist


Registered: 12/06/14
Posts: 777
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: SunnyDayze]
#25763403 - 01/23/19 02:24 PM (5 years, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
SunnyDayze said: I should have researched more but this is how I learn best 😝
My pans are on agar right now so I’m not too deep in. I’d rather try something else for now instead of modifying another place in my house. I’ll probably keep growing them out for experience and save them until I figure out a better set up.
Do you prefer one over the other of those options? I’m just going to go on and order new some prints.
Thanks so much for your help and saving me time and energy!
You may get some others to chime in and say- go for it at 75F, so its really up to you- it could be a trial run and who knows- if you get the right genetics it may work out well at lower temperature.
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Jakeoncid419
Follow me.....



Registered: 06/26/18
Posts: 4,390
Loc: Basel Switzerland
Last seen: 1 day, 15 hours
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thanks Jack mostly just for my own enjoyment so far lol
Quote:
mary fairchild said:
Quote:
Jakeoncid419 said: got a new air pump, heater and a 5 pack of humidity/tempature meters on the way. gonna mod my tub set up even further. with the pump and the o2 condenser I should be able to make all my needed fae internally. the room fan is dropping my temp down more than id like now that its really cold outside and I cant afford to hold temp off house heat. I have two different idea's and im not quite sure which would be better maybe yall can offer sum advice... so I could suck in warm dry air (pump set on a repeat cycle time) which ill have set to blow across the sub. which would cause more evaporation, however I would then need to have the humidifier cranked (honestly I would need to redesign setup of humidifier) to be able to rehydrate the sub so it doesn't get fired. I don't know if this would be to drastic... would I be hitting a point of diminished returns on the "more evaporation the better" concept? my other (and the one im prolly gonna do) is to run the pump into the condensation chamber to come in pre hydrated (like you do in a commercial grow space) this would be less overall evaporation of water from the sub but it would be much less stressfull I feel on the substrate..... anyway what yall think?
Yes the 2nd idea, hitting the sub with dry air is bad. I have to say with all this modification/ automation- I think you are getting away from the true beauty of a mono tub- being its simplicity.
Air movement and evaporation are IMO important for the most optimal results, but still 2ndary in importance to just having the luck of good fruiting genetics. There have been some really nice monotub grows of Pans grown under the same conditions as monotub cubensis grows- with little air movement and likely reduced evaporation.
I pump relatively humid air from a wicking humidifier thru a GH to get air movement- that air is ~80% RH.
yeah that's what I figured, and I agree they are not monotubs anymore they really wont even need the cut outs once im done modding except for exhausts but it could be much smaller. im staying with the tubs tho because the larger subs hold more moisture than trays which dry out very quickly they are also just easier to isolate and reem to be lasting much longer contam-wise, I think it is in part to me still trying to get the tents dialed in just right for them, im really been pushing my fae to the limits, (fans kick on every 10 min I think im gonna back that off to 25 min and see it that's a lil easier on the trays. I also just got several LED strips with multi color options so I will be playing with different light spectrums affect on them as well then I got sum new note pads, rulers protractors, page tabs, calendar to help me keep better better track of my findings. anyway ill upadate yall later tonight after I do sum modds, thanks for advice, alsways looking for yalls input!
as for the temps my GR was at about 78-85F during the last few pan flushes it got cold outside last 10 days dropping temp t 70-72 and ive noticed a big slow down on tamp fruit bodies (sub still stoning up like crazy) and have gotten no pins yet on new pan tub (day 4 or 5 in FC id have to look up) nor did I get my 3rd flush pins on old tub (after temp drop) before i tossed it beforeit had the chance to contam. i got a small heater today among other thins im gonna mod in still no pump yet but im gonna set up my cold tent tonight. should be able to make a neat little write up in a few hours
-------------------- Natural omt/detox online pant cult classes available last Saturday of every month go to buymeacoffee.com/jakeoncid to sign up (1 on 1 consultations also available JOC PAN TEK CORDYCEPS MILITARIS EXOTICS [
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rickyswamps
Bad Apple



Registered: 11/08/18
Posts: 1,192
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Quote:
mary fairchild said:
Quote:
Appalachian Brony said: I’ve failed with cyan and bisporus doin sterilized sub both broken up into trays and fruited from the container like pancakes. Was surely user error regarding one or more of a few different things like too much grain in the mix, too moist, or bad growing conditions though.
Last year I used the same bisporus culture for sterilized sub and grains, the broken up sub didn’t fruit, the straight cased ziploc pints didnt fruit, but the grain spawned to pasteurized sub did.
That’s just my experience though, the best flushes that I’ve seen on here are from Mary, Asura, and BlueHelix and they all seem to do the sterilized sub method along with greenhouses.
I did a "Spawn to Bulk" grow of bisporus ~the holidays:

So thats typically done with agar wedge ->grain->pasteurized substrate- thing is I think bis is a tertiary decomposer- boils down to- give it a long consolidation period- I'm getting ready to put this in the grow logs if I can ever get to it, more details in advance if you'd like.
Sick.
Why does a long consolidation work better?
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Asura
Cyantist


Registered: 08/01/11
Posts: 5,047
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 11 days, 19 hours
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: rickyswamps]
#25763856 - 01/23/19 05:59 PM (5 years, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
rickyswamps said: What do people like the best: sterilize a substrate mix and inoculate that. Or pasteurize the substate and mix with colonized grains?
I sterilize my substrate in spawn bags and noc that up with LC.
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Asura
Cyantist


Registered: 08/01/11
Posts: 5,047
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 11 days, 19 hours
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: SunnyDayze]
#25763873 - 01/23/19 06:07 PM (5 years, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
SunnyDayze said: I should have researched more but this is how I learn best 😝
My pans are on agar right now so I’m not too deep in. I’d rather try something else for now instead of modifying another place in my house. I’ll probably keep growing them out for experience and save them until I figure out a better set up.
Do you prefer one over the other of those options? I’m just going to go on and order new some prints.
Thanks so much for your help and saving me time and energy!
You've got the right attitude, man...the part about you keeping growing them out. It takes practice and even then you won't get bad ass canopies every time. Just keep practicing.
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nube424


Registered: 12/03/17
Posts: 6,063
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Quote:
mary fairchild said:
Quote:
nube424 said: Long consolidation? How Long? I have 3 trays of bisporus right now and I definitely didn't let them consolidate. 
So I did a~ 1:2.5 grain spawn to sub ratio and just let it colonize/consolidate at ~70->72F for 32days. So I think they reached 100% ~12->14days and I just let it sit for a TOTAL of 32 days before casing and fruiting conditions.
Whoa. Mine took like 4 days to colonize.. I'm assuming this is a bad thing? Or maybe it w asnt fully done. Mine was about 1:2
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mary fairchild
Pantheist


Registered: 12/06/14
Posts: 777
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: rickyswamps] 1
#25763964 - 01/23/19 06:43 PM (5 years, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
rickyswamps said:
Quote:
mary fairchild said:
Quote:
Appalachian Brony said: I’ve failed with cyan and bisporus doin sterilized sub both broken up into trays and fruited from the container like pancakes. Was surely user error regarding one or more of a few different things like too much grain in the mix, too moist, or bad growing conditions though.
Last year I used the same bisporus culture for sterilized sub and grains, the broken up sub didn’t fruit, the straight cased ziploc pints didnt fruit, but the grain spawned to pasteurized sub did.
That’s just my experience though, the best flushes that I’ve seen on here are from Mary, Asura, and BlueHelix and they all seem to do the sterilized sub method along with greenhouses.
I did a "Spawn to Bulk" grow of bisporus ~the holidays:

So thats typically done with agar wedge ->grain->pasteurized substrate- thing is I think bis is a tertiary decomposer- boils down to- give it a long consolidation period- I'm getting ready to put this in the grow logs if I can ever get to it, more details in advance if you'd like.
Sick.
Why does a long consolidation work better?
I was hoping I wouldn't get asked this cuz I didn't want to make a short answer long-
Stamets may have made up the term "tertiary decomposer" but its supposed to mean that the species in question normally lives on a depleted substrate. He says "Pan cinctulus has the reputation of growing prolifically on the discarded compost from button mushroom farms". [Growing Gourmet & Medicinal Mushrooms pg.12]
Here's the conjecture part- Button mushrooms grow on poo based subs, cincts, can live on soil/ poo based subs, bisporus in the wild has been said to typically grow on lawns- NOT directly on poo- so bis may be a tertiary decomposer as well. In cultivation we grow Pans on poo based subs but these substrates are much richer than what bisporus (or cincts. for that matter) typically grow on in the wild.
SO, they may not be well adapted to eating a rich substrate- they may need more time to digest/process such a rich sub. so maybe they (bis & cincts.) can benefit from a longer colonization/consolidation period.
Some of this may not be true but the result at least doesn't argue against it.
Edited by mary fairchild (01/23/19 06:48 PM)
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mary fairchild
Pantheist


Registered: 12/06/14
Posts: 777
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: nube424]
#25763974 - 01/23/19 06:47 PM (5 years, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
nube424 said:
Quote:
mary fairchild said:
Quote:
nube424 said: Long consolidation? How Long? I have 3 trays of bisporus right now and I definitely didn't let them consolidate. 
So I did a~ 1:2.5 grain spawn to sub ratio and just let it colonize/consolidate at ~70->72F for 32days. So I think they reached 100% ~12->14days and I just let it sit for a TOTAL of 32 days before casing and fruiting conditions.
Whoa. Mine took like 4 days to colonize.. I'm assuming this is a bad thing? Or maybe it w asnt fully done. Mine was about 1:2
When I grew bis it colonized just as fast as cyans but I left it sit for quite a while after it reached 100%.
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nube424


Registered: 12/03/17
Posts: 6,063
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Ok.. thanks for all the good info. I'll definitely try consolidating. I'm just paranoid that I spawned a bunch of mold somehow this is my first pan grow.
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rickyswamps
Bad Apple



Registered: 11/08/18
Posts: 1,192
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Quote:
mary fairchild said:
Quote:
rickyswamps said:
Quote:
mary fairchild said:
Quote:
Appalachian Brony said: I’ve failed with cyan and bisporus doin sterilized sub both broken up into trays and fruited from the container like pancakes. Was surely user error regarding one or more of a few different things like too much grain in the mix, too moist, or bad growing conditions though.
Last year I used the same bisporus culture for sterilized sub and grains, the broken up sub didn’t fruit, the straight cased ziploc pints didnt fruit, but the grain spawned to pasteurized sub did.
That’s just my experience though, the best flushes that I’ve seen on here are from Mary, Asura, and BlueHelix and they all seem to do the sterilized sub method along with greenhouses.
I did a "Spawn to Bulk" grow of bisporus ~the holidays:

So thats typically done with agar wedge ->grain->pasteurized substrate- thing is I think bis is a tertiary decomposer- boils down to- give it a long consolidation period- I'm getting ready to put this in the grow logs if I can ever get to it, more details in advance if you'd like.
Sick.
Why does a long consolidation work better?
I was hoping I wouldn't get asked this cuz I didn't want to make a short answer long-
Stamets may have made up the term "tertiary decomposer" but its supposed to mean that the species in question normally lives on a depleted substrate. He says "Pan cinctulus has the reputation of growing prolifically on the discarded compost from button mushroom farms". [Growing Gourmet & Medicinal Mushrooms pg.12]
Here's the conjecture part- Button mushrooms grow on poo based subs, cincts, can live on soil/ poo based subs, bisporus in the wild has been said to typically grow on lawns- NOT directly on poo- so bis may be a tertiary decomposer as well. In cultivation we grow Pans on poo based subs but these substrates are much richer than what bisporus (or cincts. for that matter) typically grow on in the wild.
SO, they may not be well adapted to eating a rich substrate- they may need more time to digest/process such a rich sub. so maybe they (bis & cincts.) can benefit from a longer colonization/consolidation period.
Some of this may not be true but the result at least doesn't argue against it.
Admit it. Somewhere deep inside you wanted someone to ask. 
Thats really interesting, or could mean they won't fruit until they feel the available nutrition is running out. A last step possibly….
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