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Invisiblemary fairchild
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: hazelnut]
    #25211526 - 05/17/18 10:31 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

hazelnut said:
nice stuff Hamloaf, alcaca!

Here's my pan cyan Jamaica, 4 days after applying casing, at which time I introduced into fruiting conditions (following Ham's suggestion). No sign of pinning yet.

I'm misting once each day to the point of getting fine misty droplets on the myc, but should my 50/50+ casing be a bit wetter? Picture isn't clear, but the casing is not glistening-wet, as I've noticed others have been. How wet should the casing be?






Hazelnut, the case couldn't look better at this stage. :popcorn:
Be careful misting the next couple of days because if all goes well expect pins by day 5 to 6.

What temperature are you fruiting at?


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OfflineFailboat
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: mary fairchild] * 1
    #25211542 - 05/17/18 10:41 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

So if mine is all matted, could I sprinkle a little more coir on top as a casing to induce fruiting or ahoukd I leave it as is and hope for pins?


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Invisiblemary fairchild
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: space_shrooms]
    #25211548 - 05/17/18 10:45 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

aicaca said:
Enjoying watching these grow, and their color - a warm glow to them.

Not the best pics but you get the idea :grin:








Aicaca, congrats!
I bet those perty pins are adults by now.
Looks like they are in those big seedling flats.


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Offlinehamloaf
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Failboat]
    #25211553 - 05/17/18 10:47 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Quirkmeister92 said:
So if mine is all matted, could I sprinkle a little more coir on top as a casing to induce fruiting or ahoukd I leave it as is and hope for pins?



Read this post.

Quote:

Numina said:
Hi SpeedRacer,

I understand completely about the casing.  That was a big mystery to me too.  The casing in the above picture (No. 5) is badly overlaid and there is no way it would have fruited except for maybe at the sides of the tray. Its there because its the only casing picture I had.

In that last grow I did about 17 jars with each tray taking a bit over one jar, so I had plenty of trays to experiment with.  I used 50/50+ on all the trays.  There are plenty of approaches to casing on here and other places.  I tried for a casing thickness of <1cm on all the trays, very loose, no compression at all. 

At first I cased, replaced the foil, punched more holes and put the trays back into incubation for 2 to 3 days. I got serious overlay on all the trays I did like this. Although, on some, there was not very much visible mycellium on the surface, the casing was well consolidated and you could almost peel it off in one piece!  My intuition told me this was not good. I reduced the casing colonisation period to <24 hrs with some trays put straight into fruiting after casing.  I also tried to reduce the thickness so that the substrate was just covered. I feel this was much better. The trays with all the mushrooms growing in the pics above had almost no mycellium in the casing and a casing thickness closer to 0.5cm. 

Because I had so many trays to play with, I didn't mind losing a few so I tried different things.  Both David Barlow and Stamets refer to scratching up the casing if it overlays. Barlow also mentions thinning the casing.  I tried both of these things.  I tore up the casings with a probe (thick needle on a handle) and then scraped some of it off if I thought it was too thick .  As Stamets predicted, this set the trays back about a week compared with those that didn't need this treatment but they pinned very well after!  I did not expect that! 

I don't pretend to fully understand this part of the whole process, but based on my experimentation, next time I would make the casing thinner, to just cover the substrate (the issue with this is, the casing is much more likely to dry out under this scenario, so watch it carefully).  If it overlays, hack it up, you might need to use two implements to do this because the mycellium hangs on tenaciously. Be patient (i'm not, DOH!), many others have said the substrate will fruit when it is ready, I agree, I could not control this at all.

One last thing, The substrate shrunk from the sides of the trays a lot.  At first I would fill this gap with water and leave for some hours, overnight some times to rehydrate, later I stopped doing this and just used a very large syringe (60cc) and flooded (literally) the casing in between the pins and growing mushrooms.  I am convinced this is why they flushed over an over again.  Good luck. I'm happy to elaborate if needed.  I have another 8 jars half done ATM so I will be doing further experimentation to confirm some of my earlier theories.




https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25178466#25178466


--------------------

   
How I Get Stuff done. - My Reference Guide. - My Grows.


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Invisiblemary fairchild
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: hamloaf]
    #25211614 - 05/17/18 11:39 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Quirkmeister92 said:
So if mine is all matted, could I sprinkle a little more coir on top as a casing to induce fruiting or ahoukd I leave it as is and hope for pins?





Pins poking thru depressions in thick mats:


Rather than peeling off- poke some holes.


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Offlinehamloaf
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: mary fairchild]
    #25211625 - 05/17/18 11:50 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

Correct me if I am wrong here, but I don't think Numina is suggesting to peel off the casing as an antidote for overlay, rather I think he's simply making an observation that since his casing was so overlaid he felt like he could have peeled it off in one piece.  Instead he used 'scratching' the casing as the actual antidote for the overlay.


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How I Get Stuff done. - My Reference Guide. - My Grows.


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Invisiblemary fairchild
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: hamloaf]
    #25211661 - 05/18/18 12:34 AM (5 years, 8 months ago)

I wasn't responding to Numina's post, in fact I didn't even see it until now. BTW- he's doing a  rigorous study by Shroomery standards.

I'm reading it now- "Thinning the casing" (Barlow)- looks like Numina says it worked. Some damage to the mycelia slowed it down but... I hope someone tries this. I know that pins have no trouble popping thru thinner overlay.


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Offlinehazelnut
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: hamloaf]
    #25211962 - 05/18/18 07:24 AM (5 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

mary fairchild said:
Hazelnut, the case couldn't look better at this stage. :popcorn:
Be careful misting the next couple of days because if all goes well expect pins by day 5 to 6.

What temperature are you fruiting at?




Thank you! I was worried that it wasn't being colonized enough. 

The temperature in the room is ranging between 73F and 77F (and will probably remain around this range for the next week or so, looking at the weather forecast).

BTW, I tested the pH of my casing last night – it's approx pH 8

Quote:

hamloaf said:
You want it wet, but not so wet that the casing turns into a hard stratum of compacted soil, or "pans" (no pun intended).

Before pins arrive is your window of opportunity to get the casing as moist as it should be, because once pins arrive; must not mist, must warn others.  In other words, misting Coplandia pins will cause them to abort faster than you can insert a clever anecdote here.




lol, ok great, thank you :sunny:


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Offlinespace_shrooms

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: hazelnut] * 1
    #25212240 - 05/18/18 10:09 AM (5 years, 8 months ago)



Watching these grow is my new hobby


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Invisiblemary fairchild
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: hazelnut]
    #25212282 - 05/18/18 10:26 AM (5 years, 8 months ago)

If possible you might want to up the temperature to ~80F. Jams like it hot. I had weaker yield at 75F.
Quote:

hazelnut said:
Quote:

mary fairchild said:
Hazelnut, the case couldn't look better at this stage. :popcorn:
Be careful misting the next couple of days because if all goes well expect pins by day 5 to 6.

What temperature are you fruiting at?




Thank you! I was worried that it wasn't being colonized enough. 

The temperature in the room is ranging between 73F and 77F (and will probably remain around this range for the next week or so, looking at the weather forecast).

BTW, I tested the pH of my casing last night – it's approx pH 8

Quote:

hamloaf said:
You want it wet, but not so wet that the casing turns into a hard stratum of compacted soil, or "pans" (no pun intended).

Before pins arrive is your window of opportunity to get the casing as moist as it should be, because once pins arrive; must not mist, must warn others.  In other words, misting Coplandia pins will cause them to abort faster than you can insert a clever anecdote here.




lol, ok great, thank you :sunny:




If possible you might want to up the temperature to ~80F. Jams like it hot. I had lower yield at 75F.


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Offlinehazelnut
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: mary fairchild]
    #25212628 - 05/18/18 01:11 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

mary fairchild – thanks, good to know! My heating doesn't work at this time of year (landlord controlled heating). Do people ever use incandescent bulbs to heat monotubs? I'm guessing the tub might be slightly warmer than the room's ambient temperature due to the heat from the 6500K florescent, but an incandescent will pump out much more heat, I think


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Invisiblemary fairchild
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: hazelnut]
    #25212826 - 05/18/18 02:36 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

It probably is warmer inside with a light shining into it thru a cover- greenhouse effect. You can put a thermometer in it to see.

I dont know anything about using lights inside a tub to heat it, maybe others can chime in on this. Seems like you'd have to be careful it didn't overheat in such a small space. Also dont know if that would interfere with  passive air movement in the tub.


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InvisibleHumble Newcomer
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: mary fairchild]
    #25213008 - 05/18/18 03:56 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

Never heard of that idea for monotub though when I started I debated using an incandescent bulb and one of the cheap $35 temperature controllers from Amazon to make an incubation chamber.

Styrofoam cooler with a small hole drilled in the side for your temperature probe and your bulb wiring to go inside the cooler, out your petri dishis in and close it up, set your on and off points on the unit and the bulb will turn on heating up the inside until the probe reads 80 or whatever.

I haven't ended up needing it but I think it will work pretty good.

I suppose if you really wanted to, you could throw all that extra stuff in a monotub and keeping in mind heat rises, possibly utilize small thermals off the bulb helping your passive airflow

https://www.amazon.com/Inkbird-Itc-308-Temperature-Controller-Thermostat/dp/B011296704?psc=1&SubscriptionId=AKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q&tag=duckduckgo-d-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B011296704


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Offlinespace_shrooms

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Humble Newcomer]
    #25213567 - 05/18/18 09:25 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

This is a pretty interesting paper about the contents of pan. cyans. - http://www.repository.naturalis.nl/document/569927. Apparently they are full of psilocin and not much psilocybin. I've heard that psilocin degrades more easily to heat than psilocybin. Not sure if that's true, but does anyone notice a bigger loss in potency from drying them than compared to other species that contain predominantly psilocybin?

It's also interesting they contain serotonin. Cubes don't do they?


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InvisibleHumble Newcomer
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: space_shrooms]
    #25213987 - 05/19/18 05:44 AM (5 years, 8 months ago)

I don't know it would be cool to know, I've also read psilocybin becomes psilocin in our bodies, now you got me wondering if species that are known to be more potent than cubes (pan cyan, esp pan trop or Cambo etc) are high in psilocin and low in psilocybin and maybe it has something to do with not needing to be converted, everything's already there fully ready.


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OfflineFailboat
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Humble Newcomer]
    #25214223 - 05/19/18 08:51 AM (5 years, 8 months ago)

Makes a huge difference in the experience. If a larger amount of the alkaloids are more readily processed, the more intense, yet shorter in duration. If the ratio is more balanced so is intensity vs duration. Should it be opposite, then you can seemingly slingshot into an intense experience. Of course higher doses will exacerbate effects, however with multiple genetics the different individual specimens with vary in content.


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InvisibleHumble Newcomer
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Failboat]
    #25214293 - 05/19/18 09:29 AM (5 years, 8 months ago)

That makes sense, intensity vs duration.

Pan. sp. Would have higher concentrations of both, in whatever ratio.


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How I made my mush GH


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InvisibleHumble Newcomer
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Humble Newcomer]
    #25215257 - 05/19/18 07:26 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

Should I case already? Spawned on 15th



At the top u see the two white blobs I saw the jars start to do this at a day or two after full colonization, surely it's not pins is this the befinninf of overlay because of over colonization (bad sign)?



Edit that's clean water pooled at top Its the first time the foils been pulled off for a peek

My plan was to case as thin as possible on day 6 or so and set to fruit and maintain casing as wet as possible until pins


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How I made my mush GH


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InvisibleHumble Newcomer
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Humble Newcomer]
    #25215915 - 05/20/18 06:11 AM (5 years, 8 months ago)

That tray was the least colonized of them all, one or two other trays had similar looking white specks at the areas where oats we're closer together, making me think yes it's something with being more colonized than the other spots.

Casing tonight and setting to fruit.

The smells are amazing so Im thinking positive thoughts


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How I made my mush GH


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Offlinespace_shrooms

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Humble Newcomer]
    #25216852 - 05/20/18 03:48 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

^ Yea not sure what the white patches are but I think it's normal. I've seen them too and also seen them in jars. Keep us posted on how they go. I wouldn't be surprised if you are reporting back with pins before the end of the week.

Anyone got tips on how I can coax these into opening up a bit? I took the lid off the green house for a bit, maybe that will help. Or am I just being impatient? As you can see a couple of the caps have turned blue. If it weren't for hamloaf's aussie's doing the exact same thing I would be concerned about them, but I guess it's just genetics and maybe that's why they're called Blue Meanies? But I do take it as a sign they are mature or almost there.



The tray in the background has taken off too :pipesmoke: - it's a few days behind. Some of the clusters there are so dense they look like enokis.

Also any tips on hydrating the casing between flushes? There are so many pins, I'm not sure this is going to be an even flush - how to harvest the ready ones, hydrate the casing but not abort the small ones?


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