|
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
|
hamloaf
Loaf of Fam.


Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 20,192
Loc: Oklahoma.
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
|
Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Germs]
#25169380 - 04/27/18 02:20 PM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|

Fruiting substrates without a consolidation period is like running a marathon after having just ate, and not allowing your food a chance to digest.
Anytime a consolidation period is provided for the fruiting substrate it's optimal. The mycelium isn't going to fruit, anyway, until it's satisfied with the amount of consolidation it does to the substrate.
I do the same as you. For Cope cyan bulk substrates I allot a 3-4 day consolidation period. Cakes are given at least a week to consolidate. The more nutrition in the bulk substrate the longer the mycelium will take to consolidate/digest it.
|
FishLevelMidnight
Aquaman



Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 2,328
Last seen: 5 months, 25 days
|
Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: hamloaf]
#25169503 - 04/27/18 03:10 PM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
hamloaf said:

Fruiting substrates without a consolidation period is like running a marathon after having just ate, and not allowing your food a chance to digest.
Anytime a consolidation period is provided for the fruiting substrate it's optimal. The mycelium isn't going to fruit, anyway, until it's satisfied with the amount of consolidation it does to the substrate.
I do the same as you. For Cope cyan bulk substrates I allot a 3-4 day consolidation period. Cakes are given at least a week to consolidate. The more nutrition in the bulk substrate the longer the mycelium will take to consolidate/digest it.
I see where you're coming from with this but isn't it true to the biology of mushrooms, as far as I know they are digesting the substrate AS they colonize it. So yes, consolidation may provide an advantage in redirecting the nutrients far from the future fruiting location that were just recently colonized;however, we see that substrates take 3-7 days to fruit from full consolidation anyway.
So I really think the mushroom is consolidating itself as necessary. I have much less experience working with isolates or with grows in general, this is biological speculation, but have you really seen that substrates given 3-4 days consolidation: 1. fruit later than a genetically similar substrate that didn't receive consolidation? 2. have healthier flushes than non consolidated substrates?
I've brought up this idea before that I don't know if we can adequately provide a "consolidation" period that truly inhibits fruiting. If someone could show that they could keep a fully colonized substrate from fruiting for like 2-3 weeks, then induce fruiting I would be more of a believer.
IMHO when you are "consolidating" for 3-4 days, what different (biologically relevant) cues are you providing the organism that would change its fruiting behavior vs if you exposed the top of the fully colonized substrate to high FAE (or whatever is claimed to be different between "consolidation" and "non-consolidation" conditions)?
We need to remember and consider the biology of the organism and be weary of personification (which I love ham and is super helpful to explain ideas to others, but something as I biologist I myself struggle with keeping to a minimum)
--------------------
 
 Trade List
|
hamloaf
Loaf of Fam.


Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 20,192
Loc: Oklahoma.
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
|
|
Right, that three to seven days it takes for mushrooms to begin to fruit after full colonization is the mycelium consolidating the substrate. I prefer to keep substrates in colonizing conditions while they consolidate, because they aren't going to fruit until they've taken their footholding onto the substrate, anyway, and so they are not exposed to open air during that time. The goal of providing a consolidation period isn't to inhibit fruiting. You can't control the mycelium's consolidation period. It's a living organism, and will do what it does when it's ready.
Unfortunately, copes don't begin to pin on their own like cubes letting you know that they've consolidated the substrate, and are ready to fruit. Because, copes colonize the substrate, and fruit faster than cubes it's more of growers intuition issue as to how long of a consolidation period to allow for, and my grower's intuition dictates a 3-4 day consolidation period on bulk substrates, because Copes have them (bulk substrates) colonized in 6-8 days.
I have a few errands to run. When I get back I'll get into the fruiting area and show you fully colonized bulk substrates of cope Cyanescens that we're spawned back on the 22nd (5 days ago).
|
mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,276
Loc: where?
|
Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: hamloaf]
#25169585 - 04/27/18 03:43 PM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
|
Doc9151
Mycologist



Registered: 02/23/17
Posts: 13,753
Loc: Gulf Coast USA
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
|
Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: mushboy]
#25169617 - 04/27/18 03:58 PM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
I case mine after full surface colonization of the substrate, little thick white knots start showing in spots, that when I case, be sparing on the casing; thick casing won't fruit.
--------------------
  Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593
|
hamloaf
Loaf of Fam.


Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 20,192
Loc: Oklahoma.
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
|
Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Doc9151] 1
#25170022 - 04/27/18 06:59 PM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Cope Cyan Aus clone culture on fully colonized bulk substrate.

Same clone culture approaching full colonization of bulk substrate.

Both substrates were spawned on the afternoon of the 22nd of this month (5 days ago). Both substrates are straight pasteurized horse manure/gypsum inoculated with standard recipe, crumbled PF material with the addition of gypsum at 3-5%, and wheat bran substituted for brown rice flour.
|
Asura
Cyantist


Registered: 08/01/11
Posts: 5,047
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 11 days, 20 hours
|
Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: hamloaf]
#25170024 - 04/27/18 07:02 PM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Ohhh that is nice. Like 1.5" sub depth? It's growing out beautifully. And those tub conditions look nice. More details if you have them, please.
|
Doc9151
Mycologist



Registered: 02/23/17
Posts: 13,753
Loc: Gulf Coast USA
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
|
Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: bacillus] 1
#25170025 - 04/27/18 07:02 PM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
bacillus said:
Quote:
Doc9151 said: Everything turned out good, it was an educational experiment. I have a new found respect for the species, I am finding that theres a difference between paneaolous cyanescens, tropicalis, bisporus; each are unique in their own way, Some more potent than others. I recommend starting low with fully dried doses.
Interesting, I started to think of them as more or less the same (never bioassayed any). Would you care to comment on the differences?
Pan. Cyanescens were great at 2-3g consistently.
Pan. Bisporus and pan. Tropicalis were extremely uncomfortable at 2g's, the trip was much more intense, I've never made a full come up at that dose without purging with these 2 particular strains. I've only had cultivated strains of bisporus and tropicalis but both with cyanescens.
Ham, that's looking phat brother
--------------------
  Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593
Edited by Doc9151 (04/27/18 07:03 PM)
|
hamloaf
Loaf of Fam.


Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 20,192
Loc: Oklahoma.
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
|
Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Asura]
#25170035 - 04/27/18 07:11 PM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Asura said: Ohhh that is nice. Like 1.5" sub depth? It's growing out beautifully. And those tub conditions look nice. More details if you have them, please. 
Well, lighting equals artificial, fluorescent bulb lighting in the 6500k range supplemented with natural, but diminished light coming through a window. Artificial lighting schedule fluctuates between 10&12 on, and 12&14 off. Ambient room temperature is being controlled to sustain a daytime temperature of 72F during daytime, and 68F at night. If there is anything you can think of that you'd like to know, let me know, and I'll answer you to the best of my ability.
Thanks, Asura, and doc!.
|
Doc9151
Mycologist



Registered: 02/23/17
Posts: 13,753
Loc: Gulf Coast USA
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
|
Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: hamloaf]
#25170056 - 04/27/18 07:23 PM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Why does the kelvin of the light matter when mushrooms do not use light for growth? It has been scientifically proven that they only need milliseconds of exposure to light to trigger pinning, but that's it. I haven't seen any other papers or studies outside what's said here in shroomery threads supporting this light theory (so far that's conjecture). I'm not trying to be a smart ass or start some BS, I am genuinely interested and am looking for data with controls. If anyone can point me to studies you've read on the subject that is not someone's opinion, I would appreciate a link or reference to it. Tks.
Edit: if you want to know where I got my information, read the case against psilocybe fanaticus, he included the government's lab studies on his spores they used to convict him. It's a really good read.
--------------------
  Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593
Edited by Doc9151 (04/27/18 07:27 PM)
|
Asura
Cyantist


Registered: 08/01/11
Posts: 5,047
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 11 days, 20 hours
|
Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: hamloaf]
#25170071 - 04/27/18 07:29 PM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
hamloaf said:
Quote:
Asura said: Ohhh that is nice. Like 1.5" sub depth? It's growing out beautifully. And those tub conditions look nice. More details if you have them, please. 
Well, lighting equals artificial, fluorescent bulb lighting in the 6500k range supplemented with natural, but diminished light coming through a window. Artificial lighting schedule fluctuates between 10&12 on, and 12&14 off. Ambient room temperature is being controlled to sustain a daytime temperature of 72F during daytime, and 68F at night. If there is anything you can think of that you'd like to know, let me know, and I'll answer you to the best of my ability.
Thanks, Asura, and doc!. 
Well, I mean from that description it sounds like you're doing this like any standard mono minus the light timings.
I was just curious, because I'm moving into a new space soon, which means I will have to spend a bunch of time dialing it all in again. I am going to build a fruiting chamber in my garage, but before I do, I want to just try standard mono's...but have some humidifiers in the room. Texas is usually so easy to grow, but anyone who lives here knows the weather is fucking weird this year.
|
cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
|
Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Doc9151]
#25170075 - 04/27/18 07:31 PM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Depends on what you are looking into...light as a pinning trigger light as a guide light as a tropic response light as a circadian rythym light as an energy source...
--------------------
  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
|
Mycolorado
Hobbyist


Registered: 07/23/16
Posts: 8,529
Loc: Interdimensional Bootcamp
|
Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: hamloaf]
#25170124 - 04/27/18 07:50 PM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Nice, can’t wait to see some tubs of these guys!
|
Doc9151
Mycologist



Registered: 02/23/17
Posts: 13,753
Loc: Gulf Coast USA
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
|
Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: cronicr]
#25170295 - 04/27/18 08:50 PM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
cronicr said: Depends on what you are looking into...light as a pinning trigger light as a guide light as a tropic response light as a circadian rythym light as an energy source...
Light doesn't guide mushrooms like it does plants, thats a result of photosynthesis nor does it use them for energy.
Edit: spelling corrections
Edited by Doc9151 (04/27/18 08:52 PM)
|
cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
|
Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Doc9151] 1
#25170515 - 04/27/18 10:19 PM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Yes they do, you will see caps orientate themselves towards light all the time. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/14802329#14802329
--------------------
  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
|
Doc9151
Mycologist



Registered: 02/23/17
Posts: 13,753
Loc: Gulf Coast USA
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
|
Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: cronicr]
#25170546 - 04/27/18 10:41 PM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
I have never seen that, even tried light placement.
--------------------
  Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593
|
cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
|
Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Doc9151]
#25170551 - 04/27/18 10:44 PM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
You may be paying attention at the wrong times https://www.shroomery.org/9892/Mycena-News They go through many stages of tropisms using many things to guide them at certain times depending on spore maturity.
--------------------
  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
|
Doc9151
Mycologist



Registered: 02/23/17
Posts: 13,753
Loc: Gulf Coast USA
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
|
Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Doc9151]
#25170562 - 04/27/18 10:54 PM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Here's a link and a quote from roger rabbit: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/13262598
Quote:
kubenzi said: 8 hours a day and you still got sufficeint growth..incredible I think they really only need light for the pinning process, after that I think they can cruise on minimal hours of light. After all they only need light for the direction of growth. End quote
Roger rabbits response That is absolutely wrong. Mushrooms don't use light for direction of growth. Mushrooms grown in total darkness will still grow straight up, opposite gravity.
Mushrooms turn towards the light because they are using it as a source of energy. That's why mushrooms grown with the proper amount and spectrum of light grow much larger and heavier than mushrooms grown with insufficient light. It's also why light is just as important during the growth phase as it is during the pinning stage. RR --------------------------------------- My statement
From what I've found in my research is that mushrooms get their energy from their substrate and it's the hyphal mat that gathers this enery and stores it, gravity decides orientation not light. No one knows or understands how light is used by mushrooms since they will grow from spore to maturity in total darkness. Not one has done a comprehensive study to find the answers.
--------------------
  Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593
Edited by Doc9151 (04/27/18 10:56 PM)
|
cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
|
Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Doc9151]
#25170567 - 04/27/18 11:03 PM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/12485578#12485578 You can go back n forth on him saying the opposite all day...RR in a nutshell because he addresses everything as a single post so it is always easy for folks to take out of context without reading what he is replying to
--------------------
  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
|
Doc9151
Mycologist



Registered: 02/23/17
Posts: 13,753
Loc: Gulf Coast USA
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
|
Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Doc9151]
#25170606 - 04/27/18 11:22 PM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
That was an interestimg article but it was incomplete. They did good explaining gravitational effects then it cuts off.
I will take those things into consideration, however the light issue seems to be eluding. There is a lot of speculation but no concrete proof.
--------------------
  Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593
|
|