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Germs
Space Force


Registered: 06/26/11
Posts: 4,607
Loc: Texas
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Germs]
#25097806 - 03/28/18 05:22 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Germs said:
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hamloaf said: Panaeolus Cyanescens variety Australian.

Nice! What are the details?
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JHOVA
Post whore



Registered: 02/17/17
Posts: 4,727
Loc:
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Germs]
#25097861 - 03/28/18 05:48 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Hey wooly why do you use different types of manure? Can you get the same kind of results using just the store bought stuff?
Nice grow buddy
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Doc9151
Mycologist



Registered: 02/23/17
Posts: 13,753
Loc: Gulf Coast USA
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: hamloaf]
#25097919 - 03/28/18 06:12 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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hamloaf said:
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Doc9151 said: To me #1 is a monoculture #2 has obvious sectors and can be isolated further to create a monoculture. An isolate (if its a true isolate) shouldn't have any sectors if its to be a monoculture. Monoculture is one single substrain.
No, there can be hundreds of sets genetics on a single plate. As long as said sets of genetics belong only to one type of mycelial culture than it's a monoculture (single culture). An isolate is a single set of genetics accomplished by employing 'isolation' technique. cronicr explains this very well up thread maybe a page or two back.
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cronicr said: Monoculture actuslly simply means a single type of growth, in other words a clean dish. Isolate is an isolated set of genetics. Over the years it has become habbit to misuse the term monoculture.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25095367#25095367
Nice grows, mary, and Woolyelephant. 
Lol, I thought that's what I was saying. I am of the impression each sector on multispore plate is an individual substrain. Isolating those sectors results in a monoculture, which in turn is it's own individual substrain free of others (like penis envy); if that makes sense.
Edit: So in theory, if I'm correct, a monoculture could be obtained from a single isolation if taken cleanly enough.
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  Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593
Edited by Doc9151 (03/28/18 06:14 PM)
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Woolyelephant
PanHole

Registered: 06/18/17
Posts: 71
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: JHOVA]
#25097925 - 03/28/18 06:14 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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JHOVA said: Hey wooly why do you use different types of manure? Can you get the same kind of results using just the store bought stuff?
Nice grow buddy
Thank you! In my limited experience growing these guys I try to make the substrate more complex. My guess is the store bought composted bag has more nutes available. The other cow poo I use is found in fields and is what they normally grow on in nature. I'm going to try a side by side using just the bag type and the other. Also this is a clone and it doesn't seem to like rye grain or any other grows I've done with pans. They seem to do best with WBS.
I've got more trays exploding so I could do a grow log and put it all on the table of what I do.
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hamloaf
Loaf of Fam.


Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 20,192
Loc: Oklahoma.
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Germs]
#25097935 - 03/28/18 06:17 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Germs said:
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Germs said:
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hamloaf said: Panaeolus Cyanescens variety Australian.

Nice! What are the details?
Whole oats cased with pasteurized 50/50 peat/verm, no lime. Nothing fancy.
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Germs
Space Force


Registered: 06/26/11
Posts: 4,607
Loc: Texas
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: hamloaf]
#25097946 - 03/28/18 06:21 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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hamloaf said:
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Germs said:
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Germs said:
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hamloaf said: Panaeolus Cyanescens variety Australian.

Nice! What are the details?
Whole oats cased with pasteurized 50/50 peat/verm, no lime. Nothing fancy. 
Awesome, I have yet to try cased grains with pans yet, will have to include it in my upcoming work. Thanks hammy
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Failboat
Fuck Up

Registered: 02/01/18
Posts: 8,736
Last seen: 5 hours, 53 minutes
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Germs]
#25097976 - 03/28/18 06:34 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Would you guys reccomend an even mix of spawn and coir, a mix with a top layer of coir, or a spawn layer with a coir layer? I like coir and would prefer to avoid manure, but I very much would like to get my Jam Pans goin. I am still taking transfers meow
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hamloaf
Loaf of Fam.


Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 20,192
Loc: Oklahoma.
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Doc9151]
#25098355 - 03/28/18 09:33 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Edit: So in theory, if I'm correct, a monoculture could be obtained from a single isolation if taken cleanly enough.
An isolate can be a monoculture if it's the only culture on a plate, but a culture that's a single set of genetics doesn't define thee isolate as a monoculture.
In a nutshell, an isolate can be a monoculture, but monoculture doesn't mean isolate. Capiche?
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Doc9151
Mycologist



Registered: 02/23/17
Posts: 13,753
Loc: Gulf Coast USA
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: hamloaf]
#25098367 - 03/28/18 09:43 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Gotcha, tks.
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  Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593
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Woolyelephant
PanHole

Registered: 06/18/17
Posts: 71
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: V.L]
#25098494 - 03/28/18 11:51 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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V.L said: Really nice grow Wooly!! I understand why make a clone (better yield and more homogeneous grow...) but what interest to clone a clone? They have exactly same genetic..?
First of all thank you! Kind of a accident...
The reason I cloned a clone is because my original clone died in the fridge. I still had the clone fruiting (on 4th flush) and decided to clone it again to not lose it. It turned out to perform better than the original so all is good. I think I possibly narrowed the genetics down further so it could possibly be a isolate and grows perfectly uniform on agar and fruits extremely well. I'm honestly still a n00b so idk...lol
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V.L


Registered: 12/15/17
Posts: 526
Loc: In my pants
Last seen: 2 hours, 10 minutes
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Woolyelephant]
#25098564 - 03/29/18 01:02 AM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Ok Wooly! Genetic must be exactly same so I think if this time you have a better result it come from your sub or your environment conditions (u are better father this time and you are not a noob! We are all: life students...)
For Mary and others about isolate and monocult I think easiest way to explain and imagine is to compare with plants: a field with only weed is a monocult and if you make a cutting from one of them this is an isolate..
Maybe one month ago I put a picture with a Pan jam with teeth like cap margin, I print this cap to see if this characteristic can be selected so I did a MS cake from this print but finally no ones of the babies are like this... experience failed!
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Humble Newcomer
Diddler de niños



Registered: 03/12/17
Posts: 1,483
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: mary fairchild]
#25099203 - 03/29/18 10:24 AM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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mary fairchild said: One question regarding agar work for Pan Cyan: Do you find that doing multiple transfers to the point of reaching uniform growth on agar helps in creating a culture that is more likely to fruit well (or has other desirable characteristics)? mf
I was actually going to ask you the same question, Mary. i remember a grow of yours i read where its sole purpose i believe was to test tomentose vs aerial rhizo pan growth, and to see if they fruited differently and if so, whether you could recognize on agar a good fruiting strain.
I don't remember the results, and i realize this isn't exactly the same, but it kind of is.
Rhizo or tomentose, true isolate or "just" a well performing clone made up of a few pairs of dikaryotic mycelia, its very possible the differences are small or negligible.
I'm in the early stages of a pan grow myself and wondering how much work i need to do on the front end. I've read that unlike cubes, pans are consistent in size and growth, that there isn't nearly as much to be gained from cloning / isolating, is this true?
If thats true my times prob better spent just (a) using agar to make sure i have clean growth and (b) fruit some trays and clone a favorite. done.
Sounds simple, but its not. Do i need to make things harder by being picky on agar for some reason?
Thanks everyone, sexy grows in here, this thread has been very informative.
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Doc9151
Mycologist



Registered: 02/23/17
Posts: 13,753
Loc: Gulf Coast USA
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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I prefere dung agar for all paneaolous grows, it can be horse, cow or chicken dung, probably other types of poo would work too.
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  Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593
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AlexSmitt
Smitty Mushroomjagermanjenson

Registered: 09/10/16
Posts: 953
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Doc9151]
#25100767 - 03/29/18 09:16 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Finally read all the pages of this. Seems more like a brag thread than anything. I saw countless people asking for help and get ignored and the ones who show what they got get all the attention and praise. I get people should put in the work and find the answers themselves but it's so sad to see no one even offering some direction. What are we showing the newcomers? For shame pan/cope growers, for shame. Anyway, I got my first pin today, about to put it on agar. I used pasteurized straw with rgs spawn. I made the casing too thin and had to recase, I may have waited too long to do that but it's a learning experience.
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it's only logical
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: AlexSmitt]
#25100891 - 03/29/18 10:17 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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AlexSmitt said: Finally read all the pages of this. Seems more like a brag thread than anything. I saw countless people asking for help and get ignored and the ones who show what they got get all the attention and praise. I get people should put in the work and find the answers themselves but it's so sad to see no one even offering some direction. What are we showing the newcomers? For shame pan/cope growers, for shame. Anyway, I got my first pin today, about to put it on agar. I used pasteurized straw with rgs spawn. I made the casing too thin and had to recase, I may have waited too long to do that but it's a learning experience.
You been here for 2 years who are u helping?
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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AlexSmitt
Smitty Mushroomjagermanjenson

Registered: 09/10/16
Posts: 953
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: cronicr]
#25100936 - 03/29/18 10:41 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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What does the amount of time I've had an account have to do with anything? Clearly you feel guilty but please understand there is no blame, only resolution and progression. If you want to fight that then enjoy your own self struggles.
Edit: Thanks for proving my point.
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it's only logical
Edited by AlexSmitt (03/29/18 10:42 PM)
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Woolyelephant
PanHole

Registered: 06/18/17
Posts: 71
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: AlexSmitt]
#25101057 - 03/30/18 12:04 AM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
AlexSmitt said: Finally read all the pages of this. Seems more like a brag thread than anything. I saw countless people asking for help and get ignored and the ones who show what they got get all the attention and praise. I get people should put in the work and find the answers themselves but it's so sad to see no one even offering some direction. What are we showing the newcomers? For shame pan/cope growers, for shame. Anyway, I got my first pin today, about to put it on agar. I used pasteurized straw with rgs spawn. I made the casing too thin and had to recase, I may have waited too long to do that but it's a learning experience.
I feel your struggle. Basically all the questions that are asked have been answered in some way and in some cases many times. The search engine is your friend and these little fuckers still aren't any easier to grow. Cloning a pan seems to work really well in regards to more fruits your after.
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Panarchist
Cyanescendant



Registered: 04/02/16
Posts: 432
Loc: Copeland
Last seen: 7 months, 17 days
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: AlexSmitt]
#25101086 - 03/30/18 12:29 AM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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AlexSmitt, you speak of the need for resolution and progression yet you fail to recognize when it has already occurred. if your best assessment of this thread is that it is merely a bunch of braggarts showing off their successes while lording it over others and refusing to share their knowledge then you have a very jaundiced view of reality. while some questions may occasionally go unaddressed directly that does not mean that this is an intentional withholding of information. the whole point of this thread is to do the exact opposite of that. and from my perspective those who contribute to it have done a pretty good job in trying to make it live up to that goal. and another thing you fail to recognize is that unlike cubensis, the best methods for growing pans are still not fully determined and are in a state of continuing discovery. in some cases there are completely conflicting opinions on what the best ways to go about it are even to this day. as such, those who take on this process can not let themselves be bound by what others have done before them but instead must be willing to take chances and figure out what works best for their situation. if you feel this thread is lacking in some areas then please feel free to do your part in correcting these shortcomings but if your only input is that the whole thing has been a waste of time you're not really doing much to help.
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bacillus
Very Serious Mushronomer


Registered: 12/07/17
Posts: 394
Loc: Central Europe
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Doc9151]
#25101353 - 03/30/18 04:48 AM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Doc9151 said: I prefere dung agar for all paneaolous grows, it can be horse, cow or chicken dung, probably other types of poo would work too.
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Panarchist said: the best methods for growing pans are still not fully determined and are in a state of continuing discovery. in some cases there are completely conflicting opinions on what the best ways to go about it are even to this day.
What about human poo? It would be easy to come by.
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AlexSmitt
Smitty Mushroomjagermanjenson

Registered: 09/10/16
Posts: 953
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Panarchist]
#25101420 - 03/30/18 05:43 AM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Panarchist said: "while some questions may occasionally go unaddressed" "the whole point of this thread is to do the exact opposite of that" "from my perspective those who contribute to it have done a pretty good job in trying to make it live up to that goal"
I'm not putting anyone down, I'm not saying they don't do their part. Exactly what I said word for word is exactly what I meant, please stop adding your "perspective" to my statement. In MY PERSPECTIVE, which you can not say is any more right or wrong than yours, I see those same names showing off their success but letting others fail. Maybe they are helping through PM but no one offered me help 5 days ago when I asked if I should recase. Simple question, the answer was clearly yes but it was ignored for a brag. Like I said, go read all the pages of this thread, you'll see it happen a lot, a lot of the same question too. The one that showed up the most was store bought poo but that's probably ignored because a few people tried it and even fewer posted results. As far as my contribution to this thread goes if I have the experience I'll share it. I just saw success using straw as my bulk sub but I followed a tek https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18249265#18249265. As I've seen and been told by many users and TC's you must follow the teks exactly till you see success THEN they can "not let themselves be bound by what others have done before them" but until then first timers like myself rely on whats new, what the experienced know. I don't mean any offense to anyone, I'm sure there was a more polite way to point this out but either way I'm sure someone would have said something no matter how I worded it. Anyway, to get back on topic, here's those pins I mentioned. The bigger one went to agar.
 Edit: Thats the pan cyan aus and it popped out another pin last night. There's a pan cyan hawaii next to it that has a beautiful pin, not as skinny and weak looking as the aus pin.
@bacillus, that's been asked a lot, the answer is no. Never use human poo.
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it's only logical
Edited by AlexSmitt (03/30/18 05:52 AM)
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