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Universe Unknown
Copes Enthusiast


Registered: 04/29/17
Posts: 86
Last seen: 5 years, 11 days
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Mycolorado] 1
#25091893 - 03/26/18 12:47 PM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quick update on my macmerdin style jars that I fruited one week ago. The casing has been at least partially colonized in all my jars. I've been misting 2-3 times a day with the exception of a 48 hr period where I had to travel (I misted it pretty heavily before I left).
Maybe I'm a bit impatient but I'm beginning to feel like it's not going anywhere. Here are some pics after a fresh round of misting:
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Mycolorado
Hobbyist


Registered: 07/23/16
Posts: 8,529
Loc: Interdimensional Bootcamp
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Looks like a couple pins or something happening in the 4th close-up pic. Which species are those and how warm is it in the sgfc? They like it warm...some species more than others. You might ease up on the misting unless it's needed to keep the casing hydrated, however, it's looking pretty colonized at this point...as long as your chamber is maintaining a very high rh and it's warm, you should be good to go. Maybe mary fairchild or V.L. will chime in...they're the Pan pros. Also, a week isn't that long...they could just be taking their time to pop and will show up in the coming days.
Edited by Mycolorado (03/26/18 01:40 PM)
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pacmanbreed



Registered: 10/12/16
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: mushboy] 1
#25092075 - 03/26/18 01:51 PM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Canharo said: Yeah they really like that recipe, I transferred to normal MEA after and they look different, not as dense. I will be putting my the T2's & T3's I'm about to transfer back on that HP MEA and will stick with it for my pans, I mean just look at how happy he is

Thats looks happy where it trully belong. To the poo.
I love the uniform growth of that clone. Try mushing some manure mushboy. I bet doc's chicken manure will do fine. they love high nitrogen content.
 Ive even double the nute here by boiling GW to half. They grow fine but anemic in pure GW.
And 2-3 days consolidation is enough for them upon spawning before casing. They are fast in high N spawns @ 28c. My streak plates from the wild has manage to outrun so much yeast in 4 days. Having a wide 11cm glass petri on hand is usefull for wild spores.
I feel that this species are also forgiving given tropical temp + veryr important saturating humidity.
Edited by pacmanbreed (03/26/18 06:37 PM)
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Universe Unknown
Copes Enthusiast


Registered: 04/29/17
Posts: 86
Last seen: 5 years, 11 days
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Mycolorado]
#25092598 - 03/26/18 05:39 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mycolorado said: Looks like a couple pins or something happening in the 4th close-up pic. Which species are those and how warm is it in the sgfc? They like it warm...some species more than others. You might ease up on the misting unless it's needed to keep the casing hydrated, however, it's looking pretty colonized at this point...as long as your chamber is maintaining a very high rh and it's warm, you should be good to go. Maybe mary fairchild or V.L. will chime in...they're the Pan pros. Also, a week isn't that long...they could just be taking their time to pop and will show up in the coming days.
Thanks for the reply. It's Pan Cyans. I don't have a thermometer in the SGFC but I'm in a warm climate. I would say high 70s to low 80s.
I've already cut back a bit on the misting but it feels like my SGFC might be drying out too quickly or something. with my old SGFC I could only mist once a day - any more and the water would pool up. With this one I'm misting twice a day and it seems to always quickly evaporate. Also I never see any condensation on the inside of the SGFC. I sure hope there's enough humidity in there
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mary fairchild
Pantheist


Registered: 12/06/14
Posts: 777
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Hi Universe, What variety?
How many days under fruiting conditions?
I did my first Pan cyan grow in an SGFC: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23165420
Here's some things I considered about environmental conditions in an SGFC.
I watered the perlite with a garden watering can and I even fluffed it up (to make sure water vapor wicks properly) ~1 to 2 times per week and I fanned it with the lid of the SGFC~ every 3 hours, except overnight and always after misting the trays; I don't know if that level of compulsion is necessary in an SGFC. Cube growers will tell you fanning is not necessary, but I really like some FAST air exchange in the SGFG. Its been shown that cyans can be grown in a mono tub; but since they function on different principals its hard to tell.
I misted whenever any part of the casing surface seemed to be drying out. I also never saw any condensation. You get it when there is a temperature differential between the inside of the tub and the outside. Don't worry about not having condensation.
If you are worrying about not having enough humidity; I did my grow in an area with a very dry climate. Fluffing the perlite should enhance air movement thru the bottom. The relatively dry air picks up moisture as it moves thru the moist perlite enhancing evaporation. IDK but I sunk my trays so the tops would be level with the perlite surface so the tray surface would be closer to the source of evaporation.
At least 80F in the room you are fruiting in is best. This may depend a lot on the variety. Different varieties were initially collected in different geographic locations- and may have different needs. Also don't try to heat the inside of the SGFC; it should be at the same temperature as outside. Anyway the temperature close to the surface of the perlite will be slightly lower because evaporation causes cooling. Keep the SGFC in an open area.
Pans are much smaller than cubes so they will be WAY more sensitive to drying out.
Regards, mf
Edited by mary fairchild (03/27/18 12:59 AM)
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Woolyelephant
PanHole

Registered: 06/18/17
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Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: mary fairchild] 4
#25094299 - 03/27/18 11:16 AM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Nice grow Mary! I'm not using a SGFC and getting excellent results.
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,275
Loc: where?
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Woolyelephant]
#25094320 - 03/27/18 11:20 AM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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damn. awesome grow dood.
im disrespecting these mushrooms by growing mold instead of them.
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Woolyelephant
PanHole

Registered: 06/18/17
Posts: 71
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: mushboy]
#25094417 - 03/27/18 11:44 AM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Thanks mushboy. This clone is kicking ass! Started pinning 4 days after fruiting
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mary fairchild
Pantheist


Registered: 12/06/14
Posts: 777
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Woolyelephant]
#25094514 - 03/27/18 12:25 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Awesome grow Wooly!
You're going to have loads of shrooms. Looks like cyans. Bet they'll mature fast.
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Universe Unknown
Copes Enthusiast


Registered: 04/29/17
Posts: 86
Last seen: 5 years, 11 days
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: mary fairchild]
#25094545 - 03/27/18 12:41 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Thanks for the input Mary. That grow log you linked was very helpful
Quote:
mary fairchild said: Hi Universe, What variety?
This is a wild variety of Pan Cyans that I got in Bali. I printed the mushrooms myself.
Quote:
mary fairchild said:
How many days under fruiting conditions?
I fruited 8 jars. 4 of them were fruited 8 days ago and the other 4 were put into fruiting 6 days ago
Quote:
mary fairchild said:
Here's some things I considered about environmental conditions in an SGFC.
I watered the perlite with a garden watering can and I even fluffed it up (to make sure water vapor wicks properly) ~1 to 2 times per week and I fanned it with the lid of the SGFC~ every 3 hours, except overnight and always after misting the trays; I don't know if that level of compulsion is necessary in an SGFC. Cube growers will tell you fanning is not necessary, but I really like some FAST air exchange in the SGFG. Its been shown that cyans can be grown in a mono tub; but since they function on different principals its hard to tell.
I misted whenever any part of the casing surface seemed to be drying out. I also never saw any condensation. You get it when there is a temperature differential between the inside of the tub and the outside. Don't worry about not having condensation.
If you are worrying about not having enough humidity; I did my grow in an area with a very dry climate. Fluffing the perlite should enhance air movement thru the bottom. The relatively dry air picks up moisture as it moves thru the moist perlite enhancing evaporation. IDK but I sunk my trays so the tops would be level with the perlite surface so the tray surface would be closer to the source of evaporation.
At least 80F in the room you are fruiting in is best. This may depend a lot on the variety. Different varieties were initially collected in different geographic locations- and may have different needs. Also don't try to heat the inside of the SGFC; it should be at the same temperature as outside. Anyway the temperature close to the surface of the perlite will be slightly lower because evaporation causes cooling. Keep the SGFC in an open area.
Pans are much smaller than cubes so they will be WAY more sensitive to drying out.
Regards, mf
I'll apply your advice on managing the SGFC going forward. There are certainly some pointers in there that I was not doing especially around properly caring for the perlite and positioning of my SGFC in the room
Even if these 8 jars are a lost cause, I'm hoping this will be useful to the other 19 or so jars that I have consolidating.
One question regarding agar work for Pan Cyan: Do you find that doing multiple transfers to the point of reaching uniform growth on agar helps in creating a culture that is more likely to fruit well (or has other desirable characteristics)? My understanding for cubensis is that going for a monoculture is more of a nice to have if you are an advanced grower looking to breed certain characteristics and is generally not necessary if your objective is to just grow some shrooms.
Tbh my only objective with my agar work for this grow was to make sure that I don't have any contams.
When you make your transfers, do you look for certain characteristics in the area you transfer from such as: most uniform growth in that section of the agar, farthest moving growth form the center, texture of the mycelium (cottony, etc), or other characteristics?
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Mycolorado
Hobbyist


Registered: 07/23/16
Posts: 8,529
Loc: Interdimensional Bootcamp
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Woolyelephant]
#25094550 - 03/27/18 12:45 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Woolyelephant said: Nice grow Mary! I'm not using a SGFC and getting excellent results.

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mary fairchild
Pantheist


Registered: 12/06/14
Posts: 777
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Mycolorado]
#25094586 - 03/27/18 12:58 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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With results like this- you're going to scare everyone into getting a greenhouse.
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Germs
Space Force


Registered: 06/26/11
Posts: 4,607
Loc: Texas
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: mary fairchild]
#25094613 - 03/27/18 01:07 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
mary fairchild said: With results like this- you're going to scare everyone into getting a greenhouse.
 I bought a GH for the sole purpose of growing pans and some other exotics. Moving this weekend, so excited to set it up
--------------------
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mary fairchild
Pantheist


Registered: 12/06/14
Posts: 777
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One question regarding agar work for Pan Cyan: Do you find that doing multiple transfers to the point of reaching uniform growth on agar helps in creating a culture that is more likely to fruit well (or has other desirable characteristics)? My understanding for cubensis is that going for a monoculture is more of a nice to have if you are an advanced grower looking to breed certain characteristics and is generally not necessary if your objective is to just grow some shrooms.
Tbh my only objective with my agar work for this grow was to make sure that I don't have any contams.
When you make your transfers, do you look for certain characteristics in the area you transfer from such as: most uniform growth in that section of the agar, farthest moving growth form the center, texture of the mycelium (cottony, etc), or other characteristics?Quote:
Universe Unknown said: Thanks for the input Mary. That grow log you linked was very helpful
Ive been selecting for uniform, thick- cottony & strong growth- a nice round colony- a monoculture. The premise is that aside from isolating strong growth, any competing genetic forms that may interfere will be eliminated.
This premise could be wrong- but its been working for me. On my last bis grow I selected on agar.
I think its easier to get to a mono form from a Pans thats been circulating around the shroom community for awhile than with a wild type- because the genetics are already narrower. I'm doing some agar work on a print from a wild Pan right now.
I like to streak the spores- that way you more quickly narrow the genetics. If you haven't already done it- try streaking the spores.
It seems different with cubes- I made a couple of cube clones that looked like nice monocultures on agar- but I guess I inadvertently also selected for very LOW potency forms. Now I have some multispore product thats WAY better. For now its good enough for me to just work with- ugly on agar- multispore.
Quote:
Universe Unknown said: Thanks for the input Mary. That grow log you linked was very helpful
Quote:
mary fairchild said: Hi Universe, What variety?
This is a wild variety of Pan Cyans that I got in Bali. I printed the mushrooms myself.
Quote:
mary fairchild said:
How many days under fruiting conditions?
I fruited 8 jars. 4 of them were fruited 8 days ago and the other 4 were put into fruiting 6 days ago
Quote:
mary fairchild said:
Here's some things I considered about environmental conditions in an SGFC.
I watered the perlite with a garden watering can and I even fluffed it up (to make sure water vapor wicks properly) ~1 to 2 times per week and I fanned it with the lid of the SGFC~ every 3 hours, except overnight and always after misting the trays; I don't know if that level of compulsion is necessary in an SGFC. Cube growers will tell you fanning is not necessary, but I really like some FAST air exchange in the SGFG. Its been shown that cyans can be grown in a mono tub; but since they function on different principals its hard to tell.
I misted whenever any part of the casing surface seemed to be drying out. I also never saw any condensation. You get it when there is a temperature differential between the inside of the tub and the outside. Don't worry about not having condensation.
If you are worrying about not having enough humidity; I did my grow in an area with a very dry climate. Fluffing the perlite should enhance air movement thru the bottom. The relatively dry air picks up moisture as it moves thru the moist perlite enhancing evaporation. IDK but I sunk my trays so the tops would be level with the perlite surface so the tray surface would be closer to the source of evaporation.
At least 80F in the room you are fruiting in is best. This may depend a lot on the variety. Different varieties were initially collected in different geographic locations- and may have different needs. Also don't try to heat the inside of the SGFC; it should be at the same temperature as outside. Anyway the temperature close to the surface of the perlite will be slightly lower because evaporation causes cooling. Keep the SGFC in an open area.
Pans are much smaller than cubes so they will be WAY more sensitive to drying out.
Regards, mf
I'll apply your advice on managing the SGFC going forward. There are certainly some pointers in there that I was not doing especially around properly caring for the perlite and positioning of my SGFC in the room
Even if these 8 jars are a lost cause, I'm hoping this will be useful to the other 19 or so jars that I have consolidating.
One question regarding agar work for Pan Cyan: Do you find that doing multiple transfers to the point of reaching uniform growth on agar helps in creating a culture that is more likely to fruit well (or has other desirable characteristics)? My understanding for cubensis is that going for a monoculture is more of a nice to have if you are an advanced grower looking to breed certain characteristics and is generally not necessary if your objective is to just grow some shrooms.
Tbh my only objective with my agar work for this grow was to make sure that I don't have any contams.
When you make your transfers, do you look for certain characteristics in the area you transfer from such as: most uniform growth in that section of the agar, farthest moving growth form the center, texture of the mycelium (cottony, etc), or other characteristics?
Quote:
Universe Unknown said: Thanks for the input Mary. That grow log you linked was very helpful
Quote:
mary fairchild said: Hi Universe, What variety?
This is a wild variety of Pan Cyans that I got in Bali. I printed the mushrooms myself.
Quote:
mary fairchild said:
How many days under fruiting conditions?
I fruited 8 jars. 4 of them were fruited 8 days ago and the other 4 were put into fruiting 6 days ago
Quote:
mary fairchild said:
Here's some things I considered about environmental conditions in an SGFC.
I watered the perlite with a garden watering can and I even fluffed it up (to make sure water vapor wicks properly) ~1 to 2 times per week and I fanned it with the lid of the SGFC~ every 3 hours, except overnight and always after misting the trays; I don't know if that level of compulsion is necessary in an SGFC. Cube growers will tell you fanning is not necessary, but I really like some FAST air exchange in the SGFG. Its been shown that cyans can be grown in a mono tub; but since they function on different principals its hard to tell.
I misted whenever any part of the casing surface seemed to be drying out. I also never saw any condensation. You get it when there is a temperature differential between the inside of the tub and the outside. Don't worry about not having condensation.
If you are worrying about not having enough humidity; I did my grow in an area with a very dry climate. Fluffing the perlite should enhance air movement thru the bottom. The relatively dry air picks up moisture as it moves thru the moist perlite enhancing evaporation. IDK but I sunk my trays so the tops would be level with the perlite surface so the tray surface would be closer to the source of evaporation.
At least 80F in the room you are fruiting in is best. This may depend a lot on the variety. Different varieties were initially collected in different geographic locations- and may have different needs. Also don't try to heat the inside of the SGFC; it should be at the same temperature as outside. Anyway the temperature close to the surface of the perlite will be slightly lower because evaporation causes cooling. Keep the SGFC in an open area.
Pans are much smaller than cubes so they will be WAY more sensitive to drying out.
Regards, mf
I'll apply your advice on managing the SGFC going forward. There are certainly some pointers in there that I was not doing especially around properly caring for the perlite and positioning of my SGFC in the room
Even if these 8 jars are a lost cause, I'm hoping this will be useful to the other 19 or so jars that I have consolidating.
One question regarding agar work for Pan Cyan: Do you find that doing multiple transfers to the point of reaching uniform growth on agar helps in creating a culture that is more likely to fruit well (or has other desirable characteristics)? My understanding for cubensis is that going for a monoculture is more of a nice to have if you are an advanced grower looking to breed certain characteristics and is generally not necessary if your objective is to just grow some shrooms.
Tbh my only objective with my agar work for this grow was to make sure that I don't have any contams.
When you make your transfers, do you look for certain characteristics in the area you transfer from such as: most uniform growth in that section of the agar, farthest moving growth form the center, texture of the mycelium (cottony, etc), or other characteristics?
Making sure a print or spore syringe is clean is only half the reason I select on agar. Ive been selecting for uniform, thick- cottony & strong growth- a nice round colony- a monoculture. The premise is that aside from isolating strong growth, any competing genetic forms that may interfere will be eliminated. I haven’t found it hard to get strong uniform growth from cultivated Pans.; I usually dont have to go more than 4 passages from the germinating plate.
This premise could be wrong- but its been working for me. On my last bis grow I selected on agar. I think its easier to get to a mono form from a Pans thats been circulating around the shroom community for awhile than with a wild type- because the genetics are already narrower. I'm doing some agar work on a print from a wild Pan right now. I like to streak the spores- that way you more quickly narrow the genetics. If you haven't already done it- try streaking the spores.
It seems different with cubes- I made a couple of cube clones that looked like nice monocultures on agar- but I guess I inadvertently also selected for VERY LOW potency forms. Now I have some multispore product thats WAY better. For now its good enough for me to just work with- ugly on agar- multispore.
mf
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tryptkaloids
Learner



Registered: 02/08/15
Posts: 12,641
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: mary fairchild]
#25094811 - 03/27/18 02:18 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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It doesn't take a monoculture to breed characteristics. A monoculture is typically used to expirament with so you can be sure any differences are environmental. Furthermore, it takes awhile to get a monoculture, even after having uniform growth. (At least with cubes) With cubes I will only use a culture that is uniform, because if it isn't I consider growth to be interfered by bacteria. This may be a conservative thought but I don't trust any vast variance. I don't work for monocultures, just uniform growth.
-------------------- "Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage Flowchart for Recommended plan of action. Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms Use the Damn search engine After you know what you're doing, take a break Pick a book, Make some chips! Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
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bacillus
Very Serious Mushronomer


Registered: 12/07/17
Posts: 394
Loc: Central Europe
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: tryptkaloids] 1
#25094887 - 03/27/18 02:41 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Pan. cyan. Jam. vs cubes.

BTW, my Pan. cambo sandoze didn't germinate, so I'd appreciate a print if somebody could help.
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Asura
Cyantist


Registered: 08/01/11
Posts: 5,047
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 11 days, 15 hours
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Germs]
#25095084 - 03/27/18 03:55 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
I bought a GH for the sole purpose of growing pans and some other exotics. Moving this weekend, so excited to set it up 
I'm going to be about a month behind you. End of April. Then setting it up!
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mary fairchild
Pantheist


Registered: 12/06/14
Posts: 777
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: tryptkaloids]
#25095238 - 03/27/18 04:47 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
tryptkaloids said: It doesn't take a monoculture to breed characteristics. A monoculture is typically used to expirament with so you can be sure any differences are environmental. Furthermore, it takes awhile to get a monoculture, even after having uniform growth. (At least with cubes) With cubes I will only use a culture that is uniform, because if it isn't I consider growth to be interfered by bacteria. This may be a conservative thought but I don't trust any vast variance. I don't work for monocultures, just uniform growth.
I thought this might happen at some point- its just semantics. When I use the word MONOCULTURE i'm careful NOT to use the word ISOLATE; I just mean a uniform looking growth.
Monoculture may not be the right word to use- people may identify monoculture with "isolate". I don’t mean that.
In the strict sense of the word, its not wrong- "mono-culture" means that it looks like ":ONE" "GROWTH FORM". Its also easier to say "monoculture" than- single, symmetric, or uniform growth form”.
As far as bacteria goes and "weird" looking growth from a spore syringe- i've seen stuff that surprised me, but thats another subject.
Edited by mary fairchild (03/27/18 05:17 PM)
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tryptkaloids
Learner



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Posts: 12,641
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: mary fairchild]
#25095292 - 03/27/18 05:08 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Thanks for the clarification. In that case I try to make sure it's a monoculture before using it. I think there's a better word for that that I can't remember at the moment
-------------------- "Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage Flowchart for Recommended plan of action. Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms Use the Damn search engine After you know what you're doing, take a break Pick a book, Make some chips! Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
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mary fairchild
Pantheist


Registered: 12/06/14
Posts: 777
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: tryptkaloids]
#25095310 - 03/27/18 05:13 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Yeah I would like to clarify it- Bodhi probably knows.
I resisted using the word "monoculture" for awhile but I got tired of saying "strong uniform growth".
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