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InvisibleFantastic Mr. Fox
Grass Seed Connoisseur

Registered: 02/12/15
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: firstTIMER420]
    #22399290 - 10/18/15 06:37 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

firstTIMER420 said:
Quote:

Fantastic Mr. Fox said:
That's not pan mycelia.
More than likely mold.

What's you agar media recipe?
What are you inoculating the agar media with? Syringe?

Edit: G2A could work out better for you.




whats your process for G2A, do you shake or not shake the jar to loosten them up.  Also, ive been thinking about injecting sterile water, then shaking and getting back the water and using that for inoculation of the plates, but there seems to be metabolites in some of the jars.




Idk why your not getting proper germination..
Im guessing its your inoculant (spores)

Anyway, as far as G2A goes if its a jar thats 100% I'll shake and use a pair of sterilized tweezers to pick up a grain, and transfer to the center of my dish.

If it's not 100% I just go at the colonized clump with my sterilized tweezers.
Sometimes you'll get lucky and find a nice colonized kernal on the rim/wall of the glass jar; Highly unlikely w/properly prepped grains, more prone to happening with wetter/sticky prepped grains.. Just something I've noticed.


You can make a grain liquid inoculant as you've stated, but IMO that just seems like more work to achieve the same outcome. :shrug:

@ICEMAN MEA & PDA are great medias for spore germination.
Manure based/supplemented agar is used for panaeolus spp because of the colonization times. (speed, tomentose growth)


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Fantastic Mr. Fox]
    #22400156 - 10/18/15 08:40 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Been reading all about firefang and compost today. wondering if paying closer attention to those types of bacteria could benefit pans in particular.


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OfflineBigChief612
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: firstTIMER420]
    #22402049 - 10/19/15 09:55 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Very nice!  I have some of those going I started by inoculating popcorn.  I then went to a bulk substrate of horse and verm pasteurized.  I used peat moss and verm with lime and a small amount of gypsum with my ph at 6.8, my fruits didn't get very big though and I'm wondering if my ph should have been a bit more on the alkaline side. I read someone had their ph at like 8, you have any thoughts or advice


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OfflineBigChief612
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: BigChief612]
    #22402058 - 10/19/15 09:58 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Sorry firsttimer420 post was meant for fantastic Mr. Fox


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InvisibleFantastic Mr. Fox
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Posts: 3,225
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: BigChief612]
    #22402656 - 10/19/15 10:28 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Your fruits aren't small because of the PH.
More so because of environmental factors, or insufficient nutrient content of your substrate.
By the looks of it, your casing layer is wayyy too deep..
1/4" MAX!
Deep casing layers will cause small fruits like your experiencing.

Also, we PH our casing layers to make it less contaminant prone.
Mushroom mycelia is tolerant of a high pH, while trichoderma and especially Cobweb (Dactylium) prefer an acid pH.
I find an initial PH of 7.5-8 seems to keep trichoderma at bay until you get a few flushes(2-4), but doesn't hinder the mushroom mycelia too much.


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Fantastic Mr. Fox]
    #22402814 - 10/19/15 10:34 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Fantastic Mr. Fox said:
Your fruits aren't small because of the PH.
More so because of environmental factors, or insufficient nutrient content of your substrate.
By the looks of it, your casing layer is wayyy too deep..
1/4" MAX!
Deep casing layers will cause small fruits like your experiencing.

Also, we PH our casing layers to make it less contaminant prone.
Mushroom mycelia is tolerant of a high pH, while trichoderma and especially Cobweb (Dactylium) prefer an acid pH.
I find an initial PH of 7.5-8 seems to keep trichoderma at bay until you get a few flushes(2-4), but doesn't hinder the mushroom mycelia too much.



if thats the case I should heighten the ph of my grain jars/agar because cobweb in particular is my nemesis right now.


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InvisibleFantastic Mr. Fox
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Posts: 3,225
Loc: Flag
Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #22403600 - 10/19/15 01:28 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

How you getting cobweb inside your jars..?
Are you sure its even cobweb?..

How long are you cooking the grains?
What are you using a filter?

You shoudnt ph adjust grains/spawn.


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Giving is all we have, for we're just grateful to be alive

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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Fantastic Mr. Fox]
    #22403638 - 10/19/15 01:39 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Fantastic Mr. Fox said:
How you getting cobweb inside your jars..?
Are you sure its even cobweb?..

How long are you cooking the grains?
What are you using a filter?

You shoudnt ph adjust grains/spawn.



yeah I was just reading about cobweb since my last post. Might be something other than cobweb. I don't know much about contams though...need to read up on that I guess so I can learn my enemies weaknesses

Might be too little air exchange. I've been using wide mouth half pints with a thin layer of grass seed at the bottom. (grass seed petris) Just normal lids with no filters though.

can't remember how long I've been PC'ing them atm...45 minutes or an hour.

maybe I'll switch back to agar for now to see if its a grass seed thing. haven't had this issue with cubes on grass seed though


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InvisibleFantastic Mr. Fox
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Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 3,225
Loc: Flag
Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #22403706 - 10/19/15 01:56 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Do you have any pics?
Im trying to imagine as your describing..

There's no agar involved? Just a thin layer of RGS?
If there was too little GE your jars would still show healthy growth.
I do suggest using a filter though... Like some micropore tape (1 layer outside, 1 layer inside) over a 1/4" hole.

RGS requires a minimum sterilization duration of 1hr @ 15psi

If you want to use add RGS to your media, I suggest making it into a flour/powder using a coffee grinder.

Or soak some RGS overnight and use the soak water in your agar recipe at 1/3-1/2 strength. Also add some dextrose.. like honey
PC for 15min @ 15psi

Here's a good read regarding agar recipes:
Frank's agar media journal


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Fantastic Mr. Fox]
    #22403721 - 10/19/15 02:02 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Fantastic Mr. Fox said:
Do you have any pics?
Im trying to imagine as your describing..

There's no agar involved? Just a thin layer of RGS?
If there was too little GE your jars would still show healthy growth.
I do suggest using a filter though... Like some micropore tape (1 layer outside, 1 layer inside) over a 1/4" hole.

RGS requires a minimum sterilization duration of 1hr @ 15psi

If you want to use add RGS to your media, I suggest making it into a flour/powder using a coffee grinder.

Or soak some RGS overnight and use the soak water in your agar recipe at 1/3-1/2 strength. Also add some dextrose.. like honey
PC for 15min @ 15psi

Here's a good read regarding agar recipes:
Frank's agar media journal



just like in this violet tek except with glass jars. no agar involved.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19035262#19035262

violet claims you you can PC for less than an hour, but maybe I'll try going longer.

I've got plenty of agar and know how to use it. Have just been experimenting with RGS lately.


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InvisibleFantastic Mr. Fox
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Posts: 3,225
Loc: Flag
Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #22403762 - 10/19/15 02:11 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I like violets stuff, She's a great cultivator.
That being said, Im not gonna bash on her tek/techniques for doing certain things.

It may work for her, but not for you right off the bat..
What im trying to say is experiment until you find what works for you.
Might have to do some "fine tweaking"
I remember I used her RGS tek, and got a sticky mess each time.. I had to adjust the water content in small increments until I was able to get it just right, now my RGS to fall like sand.

Thank you for linking that thread, totally forgot about it..
I'll be experimenting with the "RGS petris" aswell..


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Fantastic Mr. Fox]
    #22404914 - 10/19/15 06:48 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

yeah I found that out when I tried her "flash hydration" grain prep. keeps bursting all my rye grains.

Maybe that's all my trouble. The cubes eat my RGS but the more sensitive pans can't handle my unrefined preparation method.


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Offlineaerow.thefox
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #22405905 - 10/19/15 10:21 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)



pan cyan Jamaicans. first ever. i think this ones about ready. what do you guys think?


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Edited by aerow.thefox (10/19/15 10:25 PM)


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OfflineBigChief612
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Fantastic Mr. Fox]
    #22407149 - 10/20/15 03:44 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

OK, thanks for the response, think I'll try adding some worm castings to my horse, verm substrate next time and your right my casing layer is to deep, I also didn't wait for the mycelium to colonize any of the casing layer, I went straight into the fruiting chamber.
Do you think the castings may help give a little extra boost?


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InvisibleFantastic Mr. Fox
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Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 3,225
Loc: Flag
Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: aerow.thefox]
    #22408754 - 10/20/15 10:48 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Worm castings are not a substitute for bulk. Worm castings are an additive for bulk substrates to add minerals, and most importantly nitrogen, just like spent coffee grounds. Both additives & rich in nitrogen.
Don't confuse additives with bulk substrates.
They'll work well as an additive at around 10% but no more than tht.

All that said, I dont think it'll make much of a difference.
I only use horse manure, straw, gypsum && vermiculite.. Sometime I'll add some coir to fluff things up.

If you want to increase yield, you need to add more spawn.
Pans do better with 1:1

Hope tht helps,

Quote:

aerow.thefox said:


pan cyan Jamaicans. first ever. i think this ones about ready. what do you guys think?




Those jars look sweaty. :uhoh:


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Giving is all we have, for we're just grateful to be alive

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Offlineaerow.thefox
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Fantastic Mr. Fox]
    #22408807 - 10/20/15 11:03 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

thats what i was afraid of.  :sad:

well here goes round 2


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Edited by aerow.thefox (10/20/15 11:03 AM)


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InvisibleFantastic Mr. Fox
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Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 3,225
Loc: Flag
Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: aerow.thefox]
    #22408814 - 10/20/15 11:05 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Spawn them anyway..
See what they smell like.
Just dont have any expectations..


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InvisibleFantastic Mr. Fox
Grass Seed Connoisseur


Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 3,225
Loc: Flag
Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Fantastic Mr. Fox]
    #22408818 - 10/20/15 11:06 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Don't give up buddy,
Stay optimistic! :sun:


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Offlineaerow.thefox
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Fantastic Mr. Fox]
    #22408847 - 10/20/15 11:14 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

oh im optomistic. and im not giving up. cyans, determined to try, i am.  :yoda2:

i have a feeling they will become my new peronal favorite. so i WILL get them to grow properly.  :seriousamanita:


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Edited by aerow.thefox (10/20/15 11:19 AM)


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Fantastic Mr. Fox]
    #22408863 - 10/20/15 11:17 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Great thread you started here fox! not enough pan posts here compared to cubes.
Gonna smoke one for concentration and read through it all later on today :thumbup:


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