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OfflineBismillah
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: SwabMarley]
    #28523008 - 10/30/23 04:34 AM (2 months, 29 days ago)

I'm trying to track down mistakes and improve my techniques after my first batch of BVI. I hope someone with more experience can chime in.

I used straw, manure, and coir, added some verm for field capacity. This got pasteurized in a countertop steam cooker. I really felt I had little control on this process, measuring temps way too high when the coldest areas reached 70C. Poking a thermometer around in a fluffy substrate does not seem like a good way to measure. I see something looking like grey mold in the leftover sub, left for 2 months. The mold grows on the straw that was poking up. Is that expected, or a sign of poor pasteurizing? It's in a sealed plastic box, but I only washed it with soap prior to use.

I bought a standalone second-hand sous vide last week. I put substrate in 3 ziplocks, weighed them down and kept them at 71.5C for 8 hours. (I thought the timer would turn the thing off at 3 hours - it just beeps) The core temp was spot on after 1.5h.

I did a separate run of coir at 71.5C for 3.5h. One bag leaked and sucked up a lot of water. I'll mix this with more coir to field capacity and run again.

I let the substrate rest in bags for 4 days to let the beneficial bacteria populate the substrate. I was gonna spawn yesterday, but then I discovered tiny specks of trich in an otherwise fully colonized jar.

I'm redoing all my jar lids now, using the felt tek by Funguz. I've also had some bacterial spawn in the past, so increasing PC time from 90 min to 2h. (European 13psi cooker)

Question: can pasteurized sub hang around for weeks in ziplock bags, or should I re-pasteurize after say 2 weeks in storage? Is it safe to re-pasteurize the moldy substrate?


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OfflineMelgo
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: odissey]
    #28523115 - 10/30/23 07:46 AM (2 months, 29 days ago)

@Odissey, thanks for taking the time to write this down buddy. I've been on the fence for a long time to cultivate Pans or not.
Answer is : not worth it for me then. I have a tendency to see the darkness around, I need shrooms to pull me out of it 3 times/year, not steep me into it!


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Offlinetree frog
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: tree frog]
    #28523164 - 10/30/23 09:13 AM (2 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

tree frog said:
Here's the best photo without setting up the flowhood.  First noticed it day before yesterday.  Probably four times that size now.

On 2% LME.  Pan. Bisporus.  Nothing else noticable so far on any other plates.

I generally don't get satellites around my edges anymore but this looks like a place I cooled my inoculation loop before dropping spore solution on it.  Rather than a place I streaked.

But solution could have ran into the crack.

Anyway, possibly mold.

?




So I transferred this after letting it grow out a bit more and it seems to be doing well on both Water Agar and 1% LME.  I dropped an MS wedge straight to millet too.

It does seem really slow on grain.  Fast on agar.

I think I read some people have trouble with pans stalling on grains?  Is this primarily an issue with MS or do I need to modify my grain prep somehow to get it to run faster?

Maybe shake more ofen?  I know my Wine Cap culture likes a good shake to really get good aggressive growth going.

Also, T1 transfer.



--------------------
Listen to the silence behind the engines' noise.  Jesus, Sweets, listen.  Hear it?  It's a love song.
For whom?
You are loved.
~ David Foster Wallace, Westward the Course of Empire Takes Its Way


Edited by tree frog (10/30/23 09:24 AM)


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InvisibleBaba Yaga
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: tree frog]
    #28523340 - 10/30/23 12:10 PM (2 months, 29 days ago)

The solution is indeed to shake more often. IME it does get a bit better towards the end. Avoid shaking well progressed jar unless they are absolutely stalling again. In my experience they often look like they don't recover after a late shake although they are totally fine, happens more with vigorous cultures though. Gonna trust your gut when it happens and not your eye.


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InvisibleBaba Yaga
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Bismillah] * 1
    #28523370 - 10/30/23 12:33 PM (2 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Bismillah said:
I'm trying to track down mistakes and improve my techniques after my first batch of BVI. I hope someone with more experience can chime in.

I used straw, manure, and coir, added some verm for field capacity. This got pasteurized in a countertop steam cooker. I really felt I had little control on this process, measuring temps way too high when the coldest areas reached 70C. Poking a thermometer around in a fluffy substrate does not seem like a good way to measure. I see something looking like grey mold in the leftover sub, left for 2 months. The mold grows on the straw that was poking up. Is that expected, or a sign of poor pasteurizing? It's in a sealed plastic box, but I only washed it with soap prior to use.




Maybe some of the straw was poking out of the bulk and never reached pasteurization temperature for long enough. It is normal that the outside is hotter and way over temp then the center. Key with this type of pasteurization is tho kill the heat so the center doesn't get overheated and I think it's important to pack the substrate down a bit to avoid air pockets and have a somewhat homogeneous density. If you use straw then chop it down as much as you can, the smaller the better or leave it out. 

Quote:

I bought a standalone second-hand sous vide last week. I put substrate in 3 ziplocks, weighed them down and kept them at 71.5C for 8 hours. (I thought the timer would turn the thing off at 3 hours - it just beeps) The core temp was spot on after 1.5h.

I did a separate run of coir at 71.5C for 3.5h. One bag leaked and sucked up a lot of water. I'll mix this with more coir to field capacity and run again.




Weird, one thinks that thing should turn itself off, mine does. You could run it trough a timer switch to kill the power when done. I use a tupperware container that fits nicely into the water bath while leaving a 20 mm gap all around so it's still surrounded by ample water. I hold the container down, and fill the water to just under the lid. When I let go the container will float. I put a couple of old plastic jar lids on top so the lid weighs it down and keeps it submerged enough but it won't touch the bottom of the water bath

Quote:


I let the substrate rest in bags for 4 days to let the beneficial bacteria populate the substrate. I was gonna spawn yesterday, but then I discovered tiny specks of trich in an otherwise fully colonized jar.

I'm redoing all my jar lids now, using the felt tek by Funguz. I've also had some bacterial spawn in the past, so increasing PC time from 90 min to 2h. (European 13psi cooker)

Question: can pasteurized sub hang around for weeks in ziplock bags, or should I re-pasteurize after say 2 weeks in storage? Is it safe to re-pasteurize the moldy substrate?





2 weeks and more is fine IME, I make a whole bunch of casing for example and use it over the course of 1-2 month. YMMV though better use a fresh batch and push it to the limit once you got the process down or safe some old stuff and spawn it with a little bit of grain to a bottle and see what happens so you know. It is perfectly fine to re-pasteurize and a little mold won't hurt but I would chuck it if it turns into a complete mold party.


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Offlineodissey
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Registered: 01/19/21
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Melgo] * 2
    #28523585 - 10/30/23 03:50 PM (2 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

SwabMarley said:
Seems like quite a harrowing trip bud! In my experience 1.5 pans can get real pretty quick! At least it started to get a bit better towards the end!




Indeed. But I have been much further with semperviva and it has always been a great fulfilling experience. Never experienced these kind of vibes from any mushroom, not even cubes. My first time with pans I took 1.8g wild coast dry and that was the other major time I had a scary time on shrooms, but the vibe was not dark, just way too much for my experience at the time. This time it was both a lot and very, very dark.

Quote:

Melgo said:
@Odissey, thanks for taking the time to write this down buddy. I've been on the fence for a long time to cultivate Pans or not.
Answer is : not worth it for me then. I have a tendency to see the darkness around, I need shrooms to pull me out of it 3 times/year, not steep me into it!



My pleasure brother. I like to document my significant experiences, both the good and the bad as a self reflection but also to offer others a feel for what is possible. Personally, I will only be taking these in smaller doses and the proper travels will be done under the supervision of the mighty semps.


--------------------


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InvisibleBaba Yaga
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Registered: 09/13/20
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: odissey] * 1
    #28523841 - 10/30/23 07:26 PM (2 months, 28 days ago)

Sounds like a hell of a time but don't you think the amount you took has something to do with it? Might have been freakishly potent mushrooms which many list as one of bisporus's qualities. What kind of semperviva dose are you taking on average, seems like I'll be having some in a couple of weeks.


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Offlineodissey
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Baba Yaga] * 5
    #28524177 - 10/31/23 01:43 AM (2 months, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Baba Yaga said:
Sounds like a hell of a time but don't you think the amount you took has something to do with it? Might have been freakishly potent mushrooms which many list as one of bisporus's qualities. What kind of semperviva dose are you taking on average, seems like I'll be having some in a couple of weeks.



Yes ofc. My point was that I have been further with semperviva and it has always been a fantastic experience in every regard, so having semps on hand I wont be taking pan cyans. First time I took semperviva there were basically no trip reports on them. I had a depression at the time and cubes did not help (maybe even made it worse). I took 2.2g dry and that was one of the most important moments of my life: I could finally feel something after several months of apathy, I learned a lot about myself and gained courage and energy to finally move myself out of that deep hole. In the meantime, I have had several ineffable experiences with it while remaining more "lucid" as it takes time to understand them and build a relationship with them. The vibe is always like you are a child again and everything is love and magical, and god has come to give you a tour around the multiverse. I always took them in the range 2 to 2.5g which is a level 4.5/5 experience, but bear in mind that I have had a fast culture that was slightly less potent so that may impact how much you should take.
I am pretty sure you will love them. Safe travels :loveheart:


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InvisibleBaba Yaga
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: odissey] * 3
    #28524194 - 10/31/23 02:07 AM (2 months, 28 days ago)

Hey, thanks for the insight. Your description of Sempervivas sounds very similar to my experience with Ps. subaeruginosa. I will be looking forward to try and keep it mellow to start with but I got to grow some first so fingers crossed it will turn out a good handful of fruits. :sun:


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OfflineMelgo
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Baba Yaga]
    #28524263 - 10/31/23 05:38 AM (2 months, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Baba Yaga said:
Hey, thanks for the insight. Your description of Sempervivas sounds very similar to my experience with Ps. subaeruginosa. I will be looking forward to try and keep it mellow to start with but I got to grow some first so fingers crossed it will turn out a good handful of fruits. :sun:




Oh wow, first time I read about Semp being compared to Ps. Subaeruginosa. When you do trip with Semp, please let us know if you really feel it's close to Sub! :smile:


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Offlinerockyfungus
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Melgo] * 4
    #28524392 - 10/31/23 09:03 AM (2 months, 28 days ago)

If you blind folded me and gave me semps/pans I wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

Trips are always unique and both have been very dark scary rides. Or light colorful rides. Set and setting or some stuff.


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Offlinetree frog
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Registered: 09/14/23
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Baba Yaga] * 1
    #28524498 - 10/31/23 11:07 AM (2 months, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Baba Yaga said:
The solution is indeed to shake more often. IME it does get a bit better towards the end. Avoid shaking well progressed jar unless they are absolutely stalling again. In my experience they often look like they don't recover after a late shake although they are totally fine, happens more with vigorous cultures though. Gonna trust your gut when it happens and not your eye.




Thanks.

I took t2 transfers from that plate today.  Had it on GWA and 1%.  Took two transfers from each onto 1% and inoculated two more jars of millet.

My swab plates germinated one spot so far (out of four plates).  Took two transfers from that a few days ago and they seem to be growing out nicely.

Pretty sure at this point, that my original growth was Bisporus and not mold!

Excited to grow, share, and experience what this species has to offer :smile:

And really appreciate your Pans in monotubs thread in particulre.  Thanks Baba!  It gave me the enouragement to try something new!  Only fruited cubes, mexicana, and edibles so far.


--------------------
Listen to the silence behind the engines' noise.  Jesus, Sweets, listen.  Hear it?  It's a love song.
For whom?
You are loved.
~ David Foster Wallace, Westward the Course of Empire Takes Its Way


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Offlineodissey
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: rockyfungus] * 1
    #28524750 - 10/31/23 03:56 PM (2 months, 28 days ago)

Quote:

rockyfungus said:
If you blind folded me and gave me semps/pans I wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

Trips are always unique and both have been very dark scary rides. Or light colorful rides. Set and setting or some stuff.



Interesting. Only goes to show how individuals' metabolism can play a very large role. I have taken several semperviva trips in a row in the past 2 years and they all had the same distinct loving vibe with perfect consistency and it was quite different than the one I had with pans. Scary? Sure, it was scary at times but because I felt a bit lost in the middle of all the alien stuff going on, not because it felt threatening in any way. Or maybe the time when semperviva will turn evil on me is still to come :shrug:


--------------------


Edited by odissey (10/31/23 05:33 PM)


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OfflineCrimsonRambeler
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: odissey] * 1
    #28524879 - 10/31/23 07:01 PM (2 months, 27 days ago)

@Baba yağa fingers crossed!
[url=https://files.shroomery.org/files/23-44/880026243-IMG_20231031_132531.jpg]




Edited by CrimsonRambeler (10/31/23 07:02 PM)


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InvisibleBaba Yaga
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: CrimsonRambeler]
    #28524985 - 10/31/23 09:23 PM (2 months, 27 days ago)

nice, are you letting the substrate colonize and consolidate first and then case?


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InvisibleTheAtlanteanS
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Baba Yaga] * 5
    #28525282 - 11/01/23 09:02 AM (2 months, 27 days ago)

Got some Nec-D primordia incoming, looks like.

I really hope these guys help me and my depression.



Got a wild hair up my ass a couple weeks ago after my failed attempts to spawn TTBVI and AUSSIEs. and just tossed a jar of Nec D in the remained LMP Coir I made (Thanks Baba)

And… welp. Here we are.



--------------------

Meditation is passive learning. Tabernacling with the one infinite Creator is passive learning. It is the learning from listening to the voice one cannot hear which answers questions which one cannot ask. The process cannot be known and cannot come into consciousness in local sense, yet the learning is there. And the strength of spirit and will which comes from this learning is helpful.
.

:egyptian:www.templeofhermes.org:egyptian:


Edited by TheAtlantean (11/01/23 09:15 AM)


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Offlinesmalltalk_canceled
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: TheAtlantean] * 2
    #28525529 - 11/01/23 01:23 PM (2 months, 27 days ago)

Got pins on the Tamps!


--------------------
Willpower is the one true virtue



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Invisiblestroopwafelman
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: smalltalk_canceled] * 1
    #28526244 - 11/02/23 07:38 AM (2 months, 26 days ago)

My first try at growing Pans. Here are 6 T1 agar plates of Pan. Bisporus. Agar is 1% LME, wedges sourced from spores on 2% LME agar. All plates are 80mm glass no-pours.




Any comments? Do these look ok?


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InvisibleTheAtlanteanS
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: stroopwafelman]
    #28527219 - 11/02/23 10:11 PM (2 months, 25 days ago)

Looks healthy from what I can see.

But then again I am awaiting my first flush of NEC D


--------------------

Meditation is passive learning. Tabernacling with the one infinite Creator is passive learning. It is the learning from listening to the voice one cannot hear which answers questions which one cannot ask. The process cannot be known and cannot come into consciousness in local sense, yet the learning is there. And the strength of spirit and will which comes from this learning is helpful.
.

:egyptian:www.templeofhermes.org:egyptian:


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Offlinesleepydave
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: TheAtlantean] * 11
    #28527800 - 11/03/23 11:20 AM (2 months, 25 days ago)

A quick little dataset... 
 
Recently ran MiB F1 and FL Blue Springs Red Spore F2.  
Multispore start for both, germed on agar, transferred once, sent 1 plate to a quart jar of millet and rye. 
Both colonized in I think it was 11 days.  
Each quart jar (1 for MiB, 1 for FL) was split into two cake pans.  
 
One cake pan for each strain was filled with pasteurized manure/straw/verm/gypsum/carbonate.
The other cake pan for each strain was filled with CVG+potassium/carbonate. 
 
Both colonized at equal rates and visible health.  Both cased at the same time.  
 
Observations: 
-CVG+ resulted in surprisingly healthy fat stemmed fruits with great cap development, and healthy printers.
-Manure resulted in an orange hue to the FL that was not present in the CVG+
-CVG+ ran multiple days faster to final harvest compared to manure/straw. 
-Pinsets were faster and more vigorous on CVG+ but by harvest, both manure and CVG were showing equal canopies honestly.  Perhaps with the manure even edging things out.  
-MiB showed much thinner but slightly taller fruits on the manure run.  Cap development was much better on the CVG+ though.  This facilitated easier printing.
-Oddly enough, FL Blue Springs showed less curling of the caps, which also resulted in easier printing.
-My takeaway, CVG+ is easier and cleaner to work with, and regardless of potency differences vs manure and traditional substrates, this is a more effective way to quicken growth, and proliferate spore prints.  I will be running many more exotics on adjusted versions of this CVG+.  It did require more ml per watering for the CVG+ (based on the sheer amount of verm vs the manure blend, this tracks for me).  But aside from that and potency, I saw nothing but benefit oddly enough.
 
But here are the pictures, judge yourself.  Obviously, we are talking mushrooms, so of course there's a boatload of variables here that aren't and/or can't be observed.  I found the side by side enlightening, and we haven't even done any anecdotal testing, much less HPLC.  Based on growth rates, it would not surprise me to see higher alkaloid content in the manure blend.   But there is no arguing the health of the fruits morphologically on the CVG+.  Which makes me think dialing in ammendments and needs further could result in potentially zero difference?  Just spitballing now haha.

All grows done inside the same tent.

MiB CVG+:




MiB Manure/straw:








FL Blue Springs Red Spore CVG+:




FL Blue Springs Red Spore Manure/Straw:






--------------------

Message me for free Panaeolus prints if you promise to grow them, print, and disperse free of bias in kind!
"I select to create more color, not less."
"All my spores are belong to you."
"PRESERVE LANDRACES!"


Edited by sleepydave (11/03/23 11:59 AM)


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