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Invisiblekirkeng
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: BirdsOnTrees]
    #28306089 - 05/04/23 08:45 AM (8 months, 22 days ago)

@birds, that last one does not look like pan mycelium to me, looks a lot like cubes. Even the top one looks too thick to me, though that could be from high nutrient content. I’ve never seen a semblance of rhizomorphic features from pan mycelium though. Are you sure your spores are pan cam? This is what I tend to see with pan mycelium:



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OfflineBirdsOnTrees
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: kirkeng]
    #28306092 - 05/04/23 08:49 AM (8 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

kirkeng said:
@birds, that last one does not look like pan mycelium to me, looks a lot like cubes. Even the top one looks too thick to me, though that could be from high nutrient content. I’ve never seen a semblance of rhizomorphic features from pan mycelium though. Are you sure your spores are pan cam? This is what I tend to see with pan mycelium:






Looking back over my plates and all the generations rn I think that the top one may actually be bacterial which is why we're seeing such thick growth. But, also, I had some plates that looked like yours that have turned into the growth patterns like on the red plate. Honestly, there may have been a mixup or cross contamination through my exacto knife as I was doing transfers. I'll have to keep you guys updated.

How quickly do your pan plates usually grow compared to cubes?

Thank you for taking the time to respond!


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Invisiblekirkeng
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: BirdsOnTrees]
    #28306101 - 05/04/23 08:57 AM (8 months, 22 days ago)

Please do keep us updated, I’m trying to think back, the last cube plates I grew out was some time ago. From memory I’d say they aren’t much faster or slower comparatively. Cross contamination could be a reason considering the sudden change in appearance. I’ve seen the fluffy cloud like stuff before like in your first picture but the boarder if on ropey stuff I’ve never encountered which is what’s throwing me off on that plate.


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OfflineAspectOfTheCreator
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: kirkeng]
    #28306181 - 05/04/23 10:09 AM (8 months, 22 days ago)

I
Quote:

BirdsOnTrees said:
Hey friends, I would just like your guidance on something please!! Questions are in bold, the rest is context <3

I have been trying to grow Pan Cams for the past 2 months and struggled for a very long time to get it to grow on agar without stalling after a week or two of really slow growth. This first picture with the yellow plate it typical of the growth pattern and texture I was getting, with thick, marshmallow-like mycelium that seemed to grow up off the plate first, and then slowly outwards:



However, after many transfers I got a plate that looks like this red one, with more wispy, rhizomatic growth, which is growing much quicker. I made the yellow and red transfers on the same day, just to contextualize the difference in size:



My question is: do you think I accidentally mixed up some plates and this is actually GT, Maza, or APE? I've been growing those in tandem, mostly investing time into the Maza's (got my first pins today C:). I've really been diligent about labeling things so I am fairly confident that they are Pan Cams, it's just been a rather drastic change in the structure and speed of growth, and am wanting clarification on whether this is a normal transition after a progressive series of transfers.




My experience mimics yours. With both pan cambo and BVI. For one I think your transfers are way too big.

Quote:

kirkeng said:
@birds, that last one does not look like pan mycelium to me, looks a lot like cubes. Even the top one looks too thick to me, though that could be from high nutrient content. I’ve never seen a semblance of rhizomorphic features from pan mycelium though. Are you sure your spores are pan cam? This is what I tend to see with pan mycelium:






How do you get pans to grow that way? What type of agar is it on? My experience mimics the previous poster and I've posted about it before. I have lots of clean, fully colonized, organized plates of APE. PE, Tidal Wave, and Nats. So agar is no problem for me.

Regardless, all my pan cultures stall out quickly at about the size of a quarter or slightly larger. Whether thick and cloudy, or thin and whispy. I'm using 1% LMEA and am giving it one last shot at 0.5% nutrients.


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OfflineRad Aghast
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: AspectOfTheCreator] * 1
    #28306209 - 05/04/23 10:30 AM (8 months, 22 days ago)

Morphology on agar will depend on a LOT of different factors. However, I have been reading a lot about pans stalling on agar lately and that doesn't make sense to me. Didn't someone mention that using LDPE wraps like Seran wrap might not be a good idea because they have low gas permeability?

I have always used parafilm in all my agar work. It is expensive but it has high gas permeability and retains moisture. I started a couple of plates of cambo two weeks ago (spores to agar) and the myc is growing up the side of the plate already. Maybe I will take two transfers and wrap one in parafilm and the other with seran wrap and compare unless someone has already done that.

Also agree that those look like huge transfers. Im kinda a noob but I think the point of transferring is to isolate so smaller is better. Smaller transfers will get you more uniform growth quicker and will be less likely to transfer along contaminants.

Anyway, here are some flying saucer necs that are about to beam me up!



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OfflineBirdsOnTrees
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: AspectOfTheCreator]
    #28306214 - 05/04/23 10:33 AM (8 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

AspectOfTheCreator said:
I
Quote:

BirdsOnTrees said:
Hey friends, I would just like your guidance on something please!! Questions are in bold, the rest is context <3

I have been trying to grow Pan Cams for the past 2 months and struggled for a very long time to get it to grow on agar without stalling after a week or two of really slow growth. This first picture with the yellow plate it typical of the growth pattern and texture I was getting, with thick, marshmallow-like mycelium that seemed to grow up off the plate first, and then slowly outwards:



However, after many transfers I got a plate that looks like this red one, with more wispy, rhizomatic growth, which is growing much quicker. I made the yellow and red transfers on the same day, just to contextualize the difference in size:



My question is: do you think I accidentally mixed up some plates and this is actually GT, Maza, or APE? I've been growing those in tandem, mostly investing time into the Maza's (got my first pins today C:). I've really been diligent about labeling things so I am fairly confident that they are Pan Cams, it's just been a rather drastic change in the structure and speed of growth, and am wanting clarification on whether this is a normal transition after a progressive series of transfers.




My experience mimics yours. With both pan cambo and BVI. For one I think your transfers are way too big.

Quote:

kirkeng said:
@birds, that last one does not look like pan mycelium to me, looks a lot like cubes. Even the top one looks too thick to me, though that could be from high nutrient content. I’ve never seen a semblance of rhizomorphic features from pan mycelium though. Are you sure your spores are pan cam? This is what I tend to see with pan mycelium:






How do you get pans to grow that way? What type of agar is it on? My experience mimics the previous poster and I've posted about it before. I have lots of clean, fully colonized, organized plates of APE. PE, Tidal Wave, and Nats. So agar is no problem for me.

Regardless, all my pan cultures stall out quickly at about the size of a quarter or slightly larger. Whether thick and cloudy, or thin and whispy. I'm using 1% LMEA and am giving it one last shot at 0.5% nutrients.




While my transfers definitely are big, these are also 30mm wide plates, so they look even bigger.


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Invisiblekirkeng
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: BirdsOnTrees]
    #28306254 - 05/04/23 11:01 AM (8 months, 22 days ago)

@aspect, nothing special about this agar MEA at about 1%. Selection may play a role in stalling out, I’ve definitely had poor selections before that did just that, perhaps age of spores as well? I recall running into the issue more with older prints via fresh ones. I generally avoid selecting the thick cloudy stuff cause it’s harder for me to discern what’s going on. I also tend to send t1 ms plates very quickly maybe half dollar size. Clones don’t tend to stall for me ever. Could be worth it to try and fruit some even if they’ve stalled on agar. Regardless if that’s how pan mycelium is looking for y’all glad to be aware it can look like that. Frankly I rarely go past t1 for pans so unaware of the mysteries beyond that.


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OfflineAspectOfTheCreator
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: kirkeng]
    #28306282 - 05/04/23 11:18 AM (8 months, 22 days ago)

I've been at this 4-5 months. Have used 2 different cambo syringes and a bvi print. Theyve germinated quickly, cleanly, and without issue. Have taken all types of different transfers. Admittedly, I do wrap plates in glad wrap. Never caused a problem with cubes but maybe thats where im going wrong. Hard to believe though because I use cups too and they stall in them all the same. Pf cakes have colonized fine. Thinking of inoculating a grain jar with a piece of pf tek myc.


Edited by AspectOfTheCreator (05/04/23 12:20 PM)


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OfflineGenome794
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: AspectOfTheCreator] * 2
    #28306383 - 05/04/23 12:28 PM (8 months, 22 days ago)

While we are looking at pan plates. I am still trying to clean up and get to fruit the Pan that I have. (Others are on the way thanks to this great community).

But while I wait I might as well keep going until I get it right or the other spores arrive.

This one is done for - to me.

The center changed to a powdery looking surface that took over the myc.

The following are 2% MEA. (The malt expract is a syrup, so its not DME, LME or similar brewing extract.)

Noc'd 8 days ago


Noc'd 14 days ago.
@BirdsonTrees You can see the transfer I took for the one plate. Normally you would do a rice sized wedge or block from the growing edge. I am taking a sliver almost parallel to the growing edge because there is a contam riding along that I am trying to get the myc away from. (It might not be present on these two plates)

Any comments on the plates welcome.

Almost forgot...

According to some recent comments on the Cult pic of the day thread I should be transfering the 7, 8 and 11 o'clock colonies ASAP.:sick:


Edited by Genome794 (05/04/23 12:30 PM)


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OfflineAspectOfTheCreator
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Genome794]
    #28306435 - 05/04/23 12:50 PM (8 months, 22 days ago)

All these cultures are on 1% LMEA. Only includes the more recent ones. Older plates that have stalled were tossed. A lot of these haven't shown any growth for awhile though.









About to take T2 transfers. Any suggestions?


Edited by AspectOfTheCreator (05/04/23 12:56 PM)


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Offlinepsilocybist
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: AspectOfTheCreator]
    #28306461 - 05/04/23 01:07 PM (8 months, 22 days ago)

The ones in petri dishes are fine imo.
It's from spores right?
If so, why you wanna transfer once more?
Just make some LC or inoc some jars/bags with your myc on agar.
The blue plate and the bottom two, in the last image, are good to go with.


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OfflineAspectOfTheCreator
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: psilocybist]
    #28306505 - 05/04/23 01:48 PM (8 months, 22 days ago)

They dont look like what ive seen other people post and they seem stalled... Just assumed stalled plates wont do well on grain and are indictitive of a problem. Am I wrong?

The ones in petri dishes are all T1 from spore germination or transferred from a pf tek inoculated plate.

I will take your advice and use them to inoculate jars tomorrow!


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Offlinepsilocybist
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: AspectOfTheCreator]
    #28306589 - 05/04/23 02:39 PM (8 months, 22 days ago)

It's been a few months, I've been playing with pan cyan on different media, and I've seen strange shit so far.
Based on what others say about them here, seems that's just what this specie does.
My plates grew very well and fast, yet grains stalled at around %50 colonization.
My LC jars grew fast and nice, so I inoculated grains with that LC, grains got colonized well, till I shaked at around %30, again stalled.
So I transfered some colonized grains back onto agar, it grew well again. Don't know whats going on with this MS. Still have it all on agar and LC, but am not able to get a jar to full colonization. :shrug:


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OfflineAspectOfTheCreator
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: psilocybist]
    #28306597 - 05/04/23 02:46 PM (8 months, 22 days ago)

I suspect ill have the same issue by transferring those plates to grain. The people on this thread who have been successful in growing pans and post pics do not have agar that looks like mine.

Ive heard it said before, and indeed one of the first sentences of the first post of this thread states "pans are not that much harder than cubes". I have to imagine there's something fundamental I'm missing because after 5 months Ive yet to get a single clean quart of spawn. PF tek pucks and jars colonize fully without issue. Yet for grains it's like im just banging my head against the wall. For other people this task appears trivial. Just makes me so curious as to what it is I'm missing or otherwise blundering.

I will try transferring some of those plates to grain jars regardless. I will also attempt to make some new t2 transfers to 0.5% LMEA and place them unwrapped in a sanitized shoebox. Ill also attempt to inoculate some quart jars with some pf tek pieces. I'm hoping if I can just get one fruit to clone maybe I'll get some type of stable, reliable culture.


Edited by AspectOfTheCreator (05/04/23 04:57 PM)


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Invisiblekirkeng
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: AspectOfTheCreator] * 1
    #28306767 - 05/04/23 06:04 PM (8 months, 21 days ago)

I had similar issues with pans not wanting to colonize grain well. My work around, which is what I do now, is making manure supplemented grain spawn. Making grain jars with a 70:30 ratio of manure:grain. This helped my pans properly colonize my spawn jars and led to me being able to consistently fruit them. You might give that a try?

I initially did it because the specific one I was working with at the time, Australian RDU, absolutely refused to take to just grain. Switching to the manure based spawn led to my success with it. I have done just grain for bisporus before and it took to that so it may have just been the Australian RDU that “needs” it. But I’ve come to like this spawn method for all pans as it also allows me to run higher spawn ratios without overloading the substrate with too much grain.

If your cultures are taking to everything but grain it might be worth your time to try it. I’ll also say I load my grains wet after a soak with manure that is hydrated below field capacity so it absorbs the excess water from the grain.


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OfflineAspectOfTheCreator
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: kirkeng]
    #28306790 - 05/04/23 06:32 PM (8 months, 21 days ago)

Got plenty of manure. Tons of horses around here. Will certainly try it. That much manure though? 70%? You also think I should use the agar I posted pictures of? Perhaps I should try manure agar as well.


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Genome794] * 2
    #28306795 - 05/04/23 06:36 PM (8 months, 21 days ago)

Genome, I would personally stay away from those 7, 8, and 11 o clock positions.... that whole 12 to 5 area looks ideal , at least to me, but maybe more like the 2 to 5 area.

Some bisporus


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: stagger]
    #28306905 - 05/04/23 08:11 PM (8 months, 21 days ago)

Hey Psilocybin.... Nice to see you back in the mix homeskillet.

Hey Kirkeng.... I've done a little poop in grain with cubes and it worked out. I'm about to make grain jars soon. I may try that. I have tried infusing poop water when I pasteurize my coir. Seems to be ok so far. Hoping these little dishes I have will fruit. Fingers crossed!!
Hope everybody is doing well today!!😎✌️


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Offline0t0lerance
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: kirkeng]
    #28307064 - 05/04/23 10:40 PM (8 months, 21 days ago)

Quote:

kirkeng said:
(...)I have done just grain for bisporus before and it took to that so it may have just been the Australian RDU that “needs” it.




Interesting Kirkeng! I'm curious about it, would be very interesting to combine spawn with some manure. I have experienced stalling before due to grain not being hydrated enough, but mycelium refusing to colonize is new to me. Bisporus are already on grain here, waiting patiently. However, what you were mentioning, the high spawn volume to bulk, is a very good argument to give this a try, as it will colonize faster too I would say.


Edited by 0t0lerance (05/04/23 10:44 PM)


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: 0t0lerance] * 1
    #28307112 - 05/05/23 12:24 AM (8 months, 21 days ago)

Harvested about 2 pounds of elk poo. It is mostly leeched, the lower layers were still darker brown. So almost ready but still fresh.
Just posted in the market place looking to trade ps.subtropicalis print for a pan print, if any one is interested.


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