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OfflineFred_feuerstein69
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Registered: 10/04/21
Posts: 77
Last seen: 9 months, 6 days
Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: kirkeng]
    #28275599 - 04/13/23 08:45 AM (9 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

kirkeng said:
@baba, yeah this tub was on the corner spot of rack, that’s a good call on turning the tub I will try that! I’ve been meaning to pull my racks a bit away from the wall as well, space is limited though, my 6x10 room is fucking packed to the rim and barely any room to move any more.. gotta get creative.

@fred, no Martha used, I’ve never used a tent or any environmental control, I like the challenges of doing without. As others have stated genetics play a big role and filtering for genetics takes time to get right for a tub, not all work for this setup. Airflow can happen with a simple flipped lid just fine. I do not fan these tubs all passive airflow, I mist twice a day that is it. Further where I live gets 4 seasons and besides winter the room is not temperature controlled, temps fluctuate from 65-95F throughout the year, Rh from 10-60, everything grows fine all year though adjustments have to made each season. Regardless if you believe me or not this is how I do it. I’ve been doing it this way for several species for many years, it has not happened for me like this over night… yes this is a clone from a previous ms tub. I’ve yet to run into a mushroom that cannot be grown in a tub set-up like this, maybe I will one day but frankly if I do I attribute it to a genetic or skill issue and eventually I know I can do it, at least that what I tell myself to keep trying. It’s not some conspiracy to trick people into wasting their time.. pans especially can have a reputation for being very finicky, and they are to an extent, however with enough patience they can be just as forgiving as cubes. I’ll add just because something isn’t being done “by the book” does not mean we are lying to you.
Edit: also since I use racks to organize my tubs that means it’s in a Martha? Nah man, just means I have several racks to keep everything organized and easily accessible, since I must them twice a day I don’t like stacking so I don’t have to I stack and restock all the time to mist.. enough with this pseudo detective work.

@everyone else, thank y’all!





i dont know if they just racks. havnt seen any picture of ur setup. nothing is transparent here like gordo tek.

i highly doubt that a full canopy can be grown in unmod monotub where no sufficient airflow is provided. a flipped lid is simply not enuff. most serious pan growers thats i have spoken with have agreed with that.

its common sense if u understand nature of pan growing. I would challenge anyone for any amount of money that this is simply not possible.

There is no pan genetic thats drives on co2 !!

another example here:
someone claimed he grown this inside a bag.

https://ibb.co/J39KZm2

later it was discovered they been grown in martha and taken into a bag for picture and marketing purpose.


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Offline0t0lerance
I'm a teapot

Registered: 05/01/21
Posts: 962
Loc: The Netherlands
Last seen: 4 days, 9 hours
Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Fred_feuerstein69] * 6
    #28275602 - 04/13/23 08:49 AM (9 months, 12 days ago)

I'm sensing that "Ferather" vibe from the official Woodlovers thread here..
:justnotright:


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Offlinepsilocybist
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Registered: 05/22/14
Posts: 528
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Fred_feuerstein69] * 2
    #28275605 - 04/13/23 08:54 AM (9 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Fred_feuerstein69 said:
Quote:

psilocybist said:
@Gorguss, and anyone interested in antibiotics and their usage here, I've compiled a post in my journal.
Link's at my signature.

Open to questions/suggestions/objection.




You suggest not to use vermiculite but 99% of growers do.
I would also stay away from any chemical or antibiotic use in mycology.

Do you have anything to report regarding pan cyans?




First,  I wrote that post and mentioned it here for cloners to consider.
        As someone just few days ago asked about cloning pans.
        Baba yaga recommended water agar, I suggested antibiotic agar.
        Both work, no problem among us. (the one asking, baba, and me)

Second, I tagged the users I was talking to. (@Gorguss and those interested in antibiotics)
        If you're not interested, simply ignore. (Just like many do to trash talkers).
        Also if you'd read that post, you'd see how much I advised against antibiotics.

Third,  I've given my reasoning on why not to use vermiculite.
        Heard that? My reasoning.
        So only way to establish a logical conversation, is for you to read,
        and discuss against those reasons. Being done by many growers, for years,
        doesn't make vermiculite safe.
        I welcome a logical conversation, what point do you have against my reasons?
        (Again if you'd read that post, I've explained the "why" behind my thoughts.)

So, please grow out of this attitude Fred_feuerstein69.
You jump into everyone's posts with demanding and kinda impolite tone.
I (as many) wouldn't accept this tone even from the thread owners.
Let alone you newcomers.

Sorry all, this thread got kinda derailed.


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Invisiblekirkeng
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Registered: 02/14/21
Posts: 805
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: 0t0lerance] * 2
    #28275607 - 04/13/23 08:55 AM (9 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

0t0lerance said:
Bit of a cross post from the subtropicalis thread, but I'm planning to run some more Bisporus and also another pan variety soon.. I got this 120l tote up and running now to see how it behaves with a Subtropicalis clone. Drilled some holes on the top side instead of the sgfc hole configuration in the lid.. I'll add some heating mats on top to prevent condensation dripping back on the fruits.. Does anyone see objections to what I did here?

I had to give up my efforts with Zaps for now.. as the FC I made failed time after time again. A well.. at least I should be able to grow pans and subtropicalis now. I recall Dr Mario had great succes with the JCM FC too with subtropicalis.




Dang, sorry about the zaps man.. once you clear your head with a break I hope they flourish for you!

@fred, as far as fae in unmodded tubs.. consider the temperature differential from outside the tub to inside the tub, mycelium creates heat, hot air rises, raising air creates voids for new air to be pulled in.. hell evaporation can create air currents. This ain’t too difficult. If you put a pool of water in a tub with a flipped lid and come back some hours later guess what? That pool of water will be gone. Where did it go? It managed to escape the tub, as it escapes something needed to take its place, air from outside the tub manages to come inside. This is my understanding of how fae occurs in a unmodded tub.


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Offlineodissey
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Registered: 01/19/21
Posts: 487
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 13 days, 8 hours
Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: kirkeng]
    #28275612 - 04/13/23 09:01 AM (9 months, 12 days ago)

Thanks Kirkeng and Shrimps. I will let this one run, have 2 other jars on the way.


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Offline0t0lerance
I'm a teapot

Registered: 05/01/21
Posts: 962
Loc: The Netherlands
Last seen: 4 days, 9 hours
Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: kirkeng] * 1
    #28275627 - 04/13/23 09:13 AM (9 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

kirkeng said:
Dang, sorry about the zaps man.. once you clear your head with a break I hope they flourish for you!





Yeah, got 6 bags remaining with zap 'la martinica' and 4 small mealprep contains. So I will run them in this setup.. maybe I get lucky.

But yeah, I failed, it is what it is.. Genetics are stored on cryo vials so eventually I hope to find a way to grow them again. Apart from that I didn't make enough fight hours (guess it's not an english expression.. but it's just to indication of not having enough experience yet)


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OfflineFred_feuerstein69
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Registered: 10/04/21
Posts: 77
Last seen: 9 months, 6 days
Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: psilocybist]
    #28275630 - 04/13/23 09:17 AM (9 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

psilocybist said:
Quote:

Fred_feuerstein69 said:
Quote:

psilocybist said:
@Gorguss, and anyone interested in antibiotics and their usage here, I've compiled a post in my journal.
Link's at my signature.

Open to questions/suggestions/objection.




You suggest not to use vermiculite but 99% of growers do.
I would also stay away from any chemical or antibiotic use in mycology.

Do you have anything to report regarding pan cyans?




First,  I wrote that post and mentioned it here for cloners to consider.
        As someone just few days ago asked about cloning pans.
        Baba yaga recommended water agar, I suggested antibiotic agar.
        Both work, no problem among us. (the one asking, baba, and me)

Second, I tagged the users I was talking to. (@Gorguss and those interested in antibiotics)
        If you're not interested, simply ignore. (Just like many do to trash talkers).
        Also if you'd read that post, you'd see how much I advised against antibiotics.

Third,  I've given my reasoning on why not to use vermiculite.
        Heard that? My reasoning.
        So only way to establish a logical conversation, is for you to read,
        and discuss against those reasons. Being done by many growers, for years,
        doesn't make vermiculite safe.
        I welcome a logical conversation, what point do you have against my reasons?
        (Again if you'd read that post, I've explained the "why" behind my thoughts.)

So, please grow out of this attitude Fred_feuerstein69.
You jump into everyone's posts with demanding and kinda impolite tone.
I (as many) wouldn't accept this tone even from the thread owners.
Let alone you newcomers.

Sorry all, this thread got kinda derailed.





you said: Open to questions/suggestions/objection.

and you got my objection. you fear mongering about vermiculite and perlite not needed cos nonsense same your understanding of anything a human has invented  ..antibiotics... go by nature law and u dont need anything else.


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OfflineRad Aghast
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Registered: 12/07/18
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Loc: Minnesota
Last seen: 4 months, 29 days
Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: kirkeng] * 7
    #28275633 - 04/13/23 09:22 AM (9 months, 12 days ago)

Second flush of Nec-d (top) and first flush of BVI (bottom) coming in hot.





Feeling grateful! :happiness:


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Offlineold_fart_out_west
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Registered: 01/27/23
Posts: 49
Last seen: 1 hour, 30 minutes
Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: odissey]
    #28275643 - 04/13/23 09:34 AM (9 months, 12 days ago)

@RH, those are looking great man! I’m spawning some Nec as we speak. 

Question for everyone: I made some agar two days ago, but ran out of plates so I have some left over. If I heat it up again, is it okay to use? Or should I throw it back in the pressure cooker and then use?


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Invisiblekirkeng
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Registered: 02/14/21
Posts: 805
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: 0t0lerance] * 1
    #28275674 - 04/13/23 10:01 AM (9 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

0t0lerance said:
Quote:

kirkeng said:
Dang, sorry about the zaps man.. once you clear your head with a break I hope they flourish for you!





Yeah, got 6 bags remaining with zap 'la martinica' and 4 small mealprep contains. So I will run them in this setup.. maybe I get lucky.

But yeah, I failed, it is what it is.. Genetics are stored on cryo vials so eventually I hope to find a way to grow them again. Apart from that I didn't make enough fight hours (guess it's not an english expression.. but it's just to indication of not having enough experience yet)



Heard we’ll I wish you the best! Not to derail the thread too much but any luck with the sec. Zap yet? Mine have been chilling for almost two months now.. hoping to see something somewhat soon.


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Invisiblekirkeng
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: old_fart_out_west] * 1
    #28275680 - 04/13/23 10:06 AM (9 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

old_fart_out_west said:
@RH, those are looking great man! I’m spawning some Nec as we speak. 

Question for everyone: I made some agar two days ago, but ran out of plates so I have some left over. If I heat it up again, is it okay to use? Or should I throw it back in the pressure cooker and then use?



You can heat it up and use it again as long as it’s still sterile. Sometimes they can get contaminated in the vessel if you’ve poured from it already, sometimes not. I don’t like saving leftover agar personally though cause I tend to take my cap out of flow while pouring.


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Offlineold_fart_out_west
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: kirkeng] * 1
    #28275707 - 04/13/23 10:31 AM (9 months, 12 days ago)

Thanks Kirkeng! I’ll re-run it in the pressure cooker and then make a batch of water agar, per Baba’s advice for cloning.


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Offline0t0lerance
I'm a teapot

Registered: 05/01/21
Posts: 962
Loc: The Netherlands
Last seen: 4 days, 9 hours
Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: kirkeng] * 1
    #28275727 - 04/13/23 10:44 AM (9 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

kirkeng said:
Heard we’ll I wish you the best! Not to derail the thread too much but any luck with the sec. Zap yet? Mine have been chilling for almost two months now.. hoping to see something somewhat soon.




2 months? That is a long time indeed. Pinning took here 3 weeks - 1 month. But, I can't wait to do some more pans; at least you don't have to wait. In the mean time I have some more zaps and paps coming up.
Good luck Kirkeng, hope you don't have to go through the same abort cycles, demotivates a bit.


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Invisiblekirkeng
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: 0t0lerance] * 1
    #28275754 - 04/13/23 11:01 AM (9 months, 12 days ago)

Thanks mate, yeah I’m feeling the culture may just be bunk, got a few more jars lined up with a better one I hope, waiting for papa to fruit as well in the meantime. I hear you, I’ve been doing a bunch of semps and trying zaps/caerus, getting back on a pan run blew my mind, forgot that all mushrooms don’t need months to do something.. I had the same issue as you with caerus so I feel the pain, but we persevere and try again I suppose.


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InvisibleTucky
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: kirkeng]
    #28276014 - 04/13/23 02:44 PM (9 months, 12 days ago)

I'm thinking that my Pan Cyan grain has gone bacterial. Sorry the pics are not great because of the moisture in the bag and that's what makes me suspect bacteria. When I squeeze the bag a little and sniff by the filter patch it doesn't smell like yeast or sweet at all, really doesn't smell like anything. Whatcha think?




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InvisibleBaba Yaga
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Registered: 09/13/20
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Tucky] * 1
    #28276038 - 04/13/23 02:59 PM (9 months, 12 days ago)

Were those bags close to full colonization and looking good before you mixed them up? Are you handling the bags a lot? Grains prepped too wet, used a syringe to inoculate? Got photos of the bag before the shake?


If colonization looks good/clean then it is best to let pans finish on their own once they are colonized more than 50%. Often the recovery after a late shake can look off or bacterial although it's perfectly fine and it happens more the later you shake. Point is though that one can't really tell the difference between a good bag and a bad bag anymore once that happened and all that is left to do to find out is try fruiting it.


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OfflineNautious1
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Registered: 01/10/23
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Baba Yaga]
    #28276286 - 04/13/23 06:06 PM (9 months, 11 days ago)

Hey guys - on my 5th Pan Cyan grow attempt after finally getting pins last attempt only for them to all abort... progress though! :grin:

Anyways I have another 3 trays (Gordo Tek) that have been colonizing for a week now. I have casing sterilized and ready to go and would like an opinion of some of these stubborn spots that don't look fully colonized! first 4  pics are of one tray that has some stubborn spots - next 2 are of another tray that looks good to go to me.

Do they look fine to case? Should I wait for those stubborn spots to colonize? Is there overlay? Am I an idiot?

Thanks :cool:



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OfflineGorguss
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Nautious1]
    #28276303 - 04/13/23 06:21 PM (9 months, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Nautious1 said:






I'd wait for a more experienced opinion but from what I've learned that is looking ready for casing.


--------------------
------------

------------


Edited by Gorguss (04/13/23 06:22 PM)


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InvisibleTucky
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Baba Yaga]
    #28276599 - 04/13/23 09:32 PM (9 months, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Baba Yaga said:
Were those bags close to full colonization and looking good before you mixed them up? Are you handling the bags a lot? Grains prepped too wet, used a syringe to inoculate? Got photos of the bag before the shake?


If colonization looks good/clean then it is best to let pans finish on their own once they are colonized more than 50%. Often the recovery after a late shake can look off or bacterial although it's perfectly fine and it happens more the later you shake. Point is though that one can't really tell the difference between a good bag and a bad bag anymore once that happened and all that is left to do to find out is try fruiting it.




I have mixed it up a couple times and it was looking good before. I don’t think they were prepped too wet but I did use a syringe of about 5ml of LC to inoculate it. No pictures of this bag but I have others that I haven’t touched that I’ll post a picture of.  I’ll spawn it I guess and see what happens.


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InvisibleBaba Yaga
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Registered: 09/13/20
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Loc: Hyperspace Chicken Coop
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Tucky]
    #28276668 - 04/13/23 11:03 PM (9 months, 11 days ago)

Would be interesting to see photos of the other bags. Did you make the grain and/or LC yourself?


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