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kirkeng
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Baba Yaga] 3
#28175260 - 02/06/23 07:00 PM (11 months, 15 days ago) |
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Lookin good stagger! I notice whenever I run my bisporus in smaller tubs the fruits come out smaller than when I do larger tubs. Regardless weβll done!
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SirPsycho
Purple Belt in Google-Fu



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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: kirkeng] 6
#28175266 - 02/06/23 07:03 PM (11 months, 15 days ago) |
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Cyan on millet into rye and straw bottles

Bispo in rye and straw bottles, A2G Jan 29th. Shaken on day 5 and yesterday morning
  
Bispo back up plates. Each set of two corresponds to a bottle
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Ask me about free Ps tampanesis, Ps subtropicalis and Ps cubensis (ESS) prints Balance in life is like running on ice.
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Seeker604



Registered: 11/30/20
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: kirkeng]
#28175271 - 02/06/23 07:08 PM (11 months, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
kirkeng said: Lookin good stagger! I notice whenever I run my bisporus in smaller tubs the fruits come out smaller than when I do larger tubs. Regardless weβll done!
Greetings Kirkeng!
Thank you for this observation. As you may have seen in my journal or elsewhere, I'll be running Bisporus for the first time once the spores arrive, and I love hearing this type of information.
Should I just stick with a 32qt unmod. monotub for them? I was going to do my Pan. Cyanescens and Cambos in 6qt trays in the martha based on Hindsights recommendations. I was also going to do one 32qt tub per Pan variety to see which method gives better consistency given my location and growing conditions in my current home. Also, do you use 3-4" of substrate in your smaller tubs or just your larger tubs?
I'm assuming Bisporus requires a casing layer just like other Pans, correct?
Thanks again!
Peace & Light,
Seeker604
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stagger



Registered: 05/05/19
Posts: 1,294
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Seeker604] 2
#28175324 - 02/06/23 07:35 PM (11 months, 15 days ago) |
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thanks Baba and kirkeng...
The 2 boxes in the picture are cow compost/manure +coir, spawned 1/17 and cased 1/22, first pins were spotted 1/30.
2 other boxes hpoo/coir were spawned 1/16, cased on 1/22 and first noticed pins yesterday 2/5...
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BlackXsheep
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: stagger] 2
#28175580 - 02/06/23 11:45 PM (11 months, 15 days ago) |
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T1 transfers from spores that were swabbed to GWA on 02-01-23, this culture is estero. This culture seems to be the most vigorous between BVI and Peace River. All 3 cultures did germinate and 5 punches were taken from each plate on 02-06-23. I did not look for particular growth patterns when taking biopsy punches. I will place T2 transfers in glass vials I have prepped for future Hunting. This thread is the coolest!
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psilocybist
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: BlackXsheep] 3
#28175712 - 02/07/23 04:05 AM (11 months, 15 days ago) |
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Finally managed to germinate these old ass spores. This particular spore print with no date on it, was sent to me around 2015. [Edit : it's Panaelous Cyan. Goliath] Don't know how old it was when sent to me. So at least 8 years, most probably more. Through these years, I just kept my prints collection in a shoebox, with no control over temperature or humidity whatsoever.
Since my chances of germination were close to zero, I tried a few methods in parallel. Agar, direct grains, exposing spores to acidic environment for a day, direct liquid injection.
So I made a syringe out of the print, let hydrate for 3 days. Also scrapped some spores into a sterilized phosphoric acid solution (pH: 4~5) with no nutrients.
Of the normal spore syringe, injected some sterilized grains. (I know it's not a healthy practice, but successful germination, even with contaminations, was a dream). No mycelium up to now.
Then put some spores on really soft ME agar plates, still no sign of mycelium on them and no contams yet after around a week. Maybe they'll eventually germinate there.
Then injected a few drops in these dilute nutrient liquid media bottles. The liquid was still warm to touch (probably ~70Β°C) when spores were injected into. (Nutrients: LME, starch, gelatin, MgSOβ΄, rice flour, glucose, all sum to around %0.5 w/w to water). They show mycelium 2 days after injection.
And the fastest result is when I injected dilute nutrient liquid, into the acid-treated spores. (i.e. dry spores were put inside acidic solution, left for 3 days, and then a few drops of nutrient liquid was injected into this acid-spore solution) There are very small particles of mycelium visible in the bottle just 24 hrs after injection. (Can't take a photo, they don't show up in my mobile photos)
And now that they've germinated, gotta clean them on agar.
Edited by psilocybist (02/07/23 04:09 AM)
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goatboy666
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: psilocybist] 3
#28175748 - 02/07/23 05:24 AM (11 months, 15 days ago) |
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Getting some grows started again 
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kirkeng
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Seeker604]
#28175843 - 02/07/23 07:32 AM (11 months, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
Seeker604 said:
Quote:
kirkeng said: Lookin good stagger! I notice whenever I run my bisporus in smaller tubs the fruits come out smaller than when I do larger tubs. Regardless weβll done!
Greetings Kirkeng!
Thank you for this observation. As you may have seen in my journal or elsewhere, I'll be running Bisporus for the first time once the spores arrive, and I love hearing this type of information.
Should I just stick with a 32qt unmod. monotub for them? I was going to do my Pan. Cyanescens and Cambos in 6qt trays in the martha based on Hindsights recommendations. I was also going to do one 32qt tub per Pan variety to see which method gives better consistency given my location and growing conditions in my current home. Also, do you use 3-4" of substrate in your smaller tubs or just your larger tubs?
I'm assuming Bisporus requires a casing layer just like other Pans, correct?
Thanks again!
Peace & Light,
Seeker604
Diversification is good, Iβd try a few things not just one. The 32qt are great. The sub for my smaller tubs ends up thinner than the bigger ones, maybe 2-3in, that could be why I notice em being smaller. I havenβt tried without a casing for bisporus, baba had good success for cyans and I think cam is if I remember correctly without a casing. So Iβm hesitant to say itβs required.
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Seeker604



Registered: 11/30/20
Posts: 331
Loc: United States
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: kirkeng]
#28175991 - 02/07/23 09:26 AM (11 months, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
kirkeng said: Diversification is good, Iβd try a few things not just one. The 32qt are great. The sub for my smaller tubs ends up thinner than the bigger ones, maybe 2-3in, that could be why I notice em being smaller. I havenβt tried without a casing for bisporus, baba had good success for cyans and I think cam is if I remember correctly without a casing. So Iβm hesitant to say itβs required.
Understood. Thank you for your reply! Iβm going to be keeping logs for all my projects, and will run each Panaeolus variety one at a time so I can pay closer attention.
The spores arrive this week and I will have them on agar by Friday.
Peace & Light,
Seeker604
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Adas
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: psilocybist] 2
#28176121 - 02/07/23 11:32 AM (11 months, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
psilocybist said:

Finally managed to germinate these old ass spores. This particular spore print with no date on it, was sent to me around 2015. [Edit : it's Panaelous Cyan. Goliath] Don't know how old it was when sent to me. So at least 8 years, most probably more. Through these years, I just kept my prints collection in a shoebox, with no control over temperature or humidity whatsoever.
Since my chances of germination were close to zero, I tried a few methods in parallel. Agar, direct grains, exposing spores to acidic environment for a day, direct liquid injection.
So I made a syringe out of the print, let hydrate for 3 days. Also scrapped some spores into a sterilized phosphoric acid solution (pH: 4~5) with no nutrients.
Of the normal spore syringe, injected some sterilized grains. (I know it's not a healthy practice, but successful germination, even with contaminations, was a dream). No mycelium up to now.
Then put some spores on really soft ME agar plates, still no sign of mycelium on them and no contams yet after around a week. Maybe they'll eventually germinate there.
Then injected a few drops in these dilute nutrient liquid media bottles. The liquid was still warm to touch (probably ~70Β°C) when spores were injected into. (Nutrients: LME, starch, gelatin, MgSOβ΄, rice flour, glucose, all sum to around %0.5 w/w to water). They show mycelium 2 days after injection.
And the fastest result is when I injected dilute nutrient liquid, into the acid-treated spores. (i.e. dry spores were put inside acidic solution, left for 3 days, and then a few drops of nutrient liquid was injected into this acid-spore solution) There are very small particles of mycelium visible in the bottle just 24 hrs after injection. (Can't take a photo, they don't show up in my mobile photos)
And now that they've germinated, gotta clean them on agar.

Fascinating experiment! Fingers crossed it's not mold!
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psilocybist
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Adas]
#28176866 - 02/07/23 09:40 PM (11 months, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
Adas said:
Quote:
psilocybist said:
 ... And now that they've germinated, gotta clean them on agar.

Fascinating experiment! Fingers crossed it's not mold!
You mean this whole mycelium at the bottom of bottle could be mold?  Or pancyan mycelium+mold
I'm quite ready for myc+mold, myc+bacteria scenarios, but not for pure mold mycelium. My hope-o-meter will be permanently damaged if I can't revive these spores.
Edited by psilocybist (02/07/23 10:15 PM)
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Hindsight
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: psilocybist] 3
#28177382 - 02/08/23 09:42 AM (11 months, 14 days ago) |
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That's an issue with LC - you can't easily tell. Agar is easier to identify molds on, while LC is easier to identify bacteria on.
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Adas
Lonely Dreamer



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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Hindsight]
#28177507 - 02/08/23 11:13 AM (11 months, 14 days ago) |
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old_fart_out_west
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Adas] 1
#28177716 - 02/08/23 01:39 PM (11 months, 14 days ago) |
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I had a tray of pan cyans (Australians) finally start pinning after 3 weeks of sitting in my martha. However, after a few days, I noticed trich growing on the opposite corner of the tray. So I removed the section of substrate/casing with the pins and put it into a shallow mason jar, then disposed of the remaining tray. 4 days later, the pins are growing quickly (albeit very skinny) and I'm not seeing any signs of trich.
My questions are: 1. Has anyone attempted something similar? 2. Are they safe to eat, as long as I don't see signs of trich? 3. Do you harvest them when the caps flatten out?

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old_fart_out_west
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Registered: 01/27/23
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Sorry for the double post, but I had some follow-up questions about casing and pinning.
Below are pictures of Estero 4 days after being cased. - I'm using two 9 x 6 x 2" trays and one tiny takeout tray (2" high) - The casing is a blend of peat moss, vermiculite, gypsum, and calcium phosphate. - The casing is around 1/4" thick



Here are my questions: 1. Is there a reason why more mycelium is poking through the casing on the takeout tray vs. the larger trays? 2. For those who've had successful grows with pan cyans, did your trays show a similar amount of mycelium poking through?
Thank you to everyone for your help! As I've mentioned before, I learn something new and useful from you all each day.
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Hindsight
Mad Scientist


Registered: 01/24/21
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1. Has anyone attempted something similar? I just cut the trich out and throw it away, leaving the rest of the substrate in the tub. It works 60% of the time. Nothing wrong with the approach you took 2. Are they safe to eat, as long as I don't see signs of trich? The fruits are safe to eat even if there is trich in your grow. Trich won't hurt you. They deliberately use it in plant crops such as cannabis and others. 3. Do you harvest them when the caps flatten out? No, right as they start dropping spores. Some Pan varieties won't have caps that flatten out - they remain various amounts of bell curved. Though I have noticed that the same pans will have flatter caps in later flushes.
1. Is there a reason why more mycelium is poking through the casing on the takeout tray vs. the larger trays? Is your spawn ratio the same in both trays - For example, did you use the same amount of spawn for the small tub as you did the large tub, but a different amount of substrate (less substrate for the smaller tub). Lower spawn ratios (like 1:1) will have a higher tendency to overlay than higher spawn ratios (like 1:2 or 1:3) though this is just one factor. Genetics plays a part, FAE plays a part, and humidity levels play a part. Higher humidity can tend to lead to more overlay. Same for low FAE. Again, none of this is cement in stone.... some genetics can have gobs of overlay even with a high spawn ratio, lots of FAE, and low moisture. 2. For those who've had successful grows with pan cyans, did your trays show a similar amount of mycelium poking through? Yes. Again, it varies though. I have many trays with ZERO overlay, and I get solid canopies. Other trays overlay and pop 1 fruit, while other trays overlay and give me solid flushes.
This whole tray overlayed and gave me this flush. Note to your question #3 above - the curved caps - this tub was dropping spores and ready for harvest when I took the pic.
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kirkeng
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This is what my surface generally looks like before pinning..
 I havenβt encountered those blob type things before, Iβd recon it could still fruit though. Edit, hindsight got you covered.
Edited by kirkeng (02/08/23 02:30 PM)
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Hindsight
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: kirkeng] 1
#28177837 - 02/08/23 03:19 PM (11 months, 14 days ago) |
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Yeah I would say the majority of my pan trays look like that too kirkeng. Lately I have been playing around with things like higher moisture levels in the tent, casing at time of spawn, lower casing pH, putting the tray in the tent at spawn time instead of after full colonization, and all of these things have resulted in overlay. When I do it my normal method: Spawn to shoebox with lid and set it on a shelf, case 3-5 days after 100% colonization, case with ~9.0 - 9.5 ph casing, let it go another 2 days with the lid on then move to the tent, I rarely get any overlay at all. Only exception I think are Cambos.... or maybe it was Jambos..... one or the other. That and the Mystery South Africa pans. Those things are the Natalensis of Pan Cyans. Just weird.
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old_fart_out_west
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Hindsight]
#28177887 - 02/08/23 03:46 PM (11 months, 14 days ago) |
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You guys both rock! Thank you so much for answering my questions and providing context from your unique experiences with pans.
@Hindsight: Confirming I used the same spawn ratio in the big trays and small tray. However, the small tray was placed near the bottom of my martha while the bigger trays were placed near the top. Assuming the larger trays received more humidity and warmer temperatures than the small one. One other thing (which I should have called out in my original post): I did two spore syringes to two different grain jars, so the delta between the trays may be related to genetics. Just a thought.
Thanks again!
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Shrimps
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Hindsight] 5
#28177888 - 02/08/23 03:47 PM (11 months, 14 days ago) |
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My Bispo, 3rd day after adding casing:
-------------------- I am not crazy, I prefer the term mentally hillarious. Agar - The way to go! Clean spawn checklist Proper Surface Moisture Recognizing and dealing with contamination π
π΄ π° πΌ π² π» πΈ π½ πΆ π
π
π° πΏ
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