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Hindsight
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Baba Yaga]
#28158238 - 01/26/23 11:53 AM (1 year, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
Baba Yaga said:

Those are incredible! Especially for a mono.
You also brought up your no-casing tests. Can you please remind me what you found with that? Did you have to do anything different to make it work? My casing method/recipe has worked very well for me except for on Mystery SA which is fruiting now, but ONLY right at the edge of the tray - as if it hates the casing. So my next tray of it will not have a casing layer.
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RoscoeReturns
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Hindsight] 2
#28158243 - 01/26/23 11:56 AM (1 year, 3 days ago) |
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Envious of Shrimps and SirP with your first pan pins. Good job, both of you. My trays got lots of overlay, then sort of stopped. Back to square one.
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SwabMarley
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Baba Yaga] 2
#28158256 - 01/26/23 12:03 PM (1 year, 3 days ago) |
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Loving the steel rule for scale Baba! This is Mushroom engineering god damn it!
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Baba Yaga
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Shrimps] 2
#28158272 - 01/26/23 12:11 PM (1 year, 3 days ago) |
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Well, I only really scratch on the "no casing and fruiting at spawn" approach but there is also the question of how much water and FAE do pans actually need or at what time do they need how much of each and how does that influence overall growth, fruits and pin set. Really like to get some first hand experience on this.
I hope you will be more successful with the current and future grows shrimps.
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SirPsycho
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Baba Yaga]
#28158277 - 01/26/23 12:12 PM (1 year, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
Baba Yaga said:
Quote:
SirPsycho said:

My first pan pin. Cyan huasteca RDU.
Yeay man, the feeling is unbeatable.
Are you keeping those in bottles as well?
Yep, straw and rye bottles. So far I've just had the lids flipped.
IIRC you said you did your desk bottle with a bag on, right?
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SirPsycho
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: RoscoeReturns]
#28158278 - 01/26/23 12:14 PM (1 year, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
RoscoeReturns said: Envious of Shrimps and SirP with your first pan pins. Good job, both of you. My trays got lots of overlay, then sort of stopped. Back to square one.
Re-case. The bottle I posted had overlayed once, they were re-cased last week.
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YoshiTrainer
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: SirPsycho] 1
#28158291 - 01/26/23 12:21 PM (1 year, 3 days ago) |
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Congratulations on a successful season Baba, some beautiful grows! Thank you for sharing all the data you've collected too. It really helps by showing more options for growing these beauties. I can't wait for my pan season to start!
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Baba Yaga
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Hindsight] 1
#28158294 - 01/26/23 12:22 PM (1 year, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
Hindsight said:
Quote:
Baba Yaga said:

Those are incredible! Especially for a mono.
You also brought up your no-casing tests. Can you please remind me what you found with that? Did you have to do anything different to make it work? My casing method/recipe has worked very well for me except for on Mystery SA which is fruiting now, but ONLY right at the edge of the tray - as if it hates the casing. So my next tray of it will not have a casing layer.
In the few tests I ran with it I found that no casing is not making much of a difference in my environment and this is regardless of having the tubs colonize and consolidate and first or applying FAE during colonization or as early as at spawn. Here are a few photos of the tubs I did with the various fruiting strategies.

with the 4 last Jambo clone tubs I did a side by side of how applying fruiting conditions at different times during colonization influences the growth and I found that the earlier FAE is applied the less overlay and the more open the surface remains. I don't know how you can implement this with your setup since no misting or other moisture application is happening during colonization/fruiting stage till first knots are forming and the surface is loosing quite a bit of moisture. I guess you could try having the trays in a mono first. Here is the post in case you haven't seen it yet.
Quote:
Baba Yaga said: Lately I am a big fan of running pans uncased and expose them to fruiting conditions during colonization or right at spawn and so far I don't see an ill effect to run the tubs like that. Maybe the yields are a bit lower on average but that could also be due the way I ran these unmodified tubs which I just started to use but if that is the only tradeoff to not having to prepare a casing then I am more than happy to take it.
To get an idea what the best time is to introduce fruiting conditions I compared 4 panaeolus cambodginiensis Jambo clone tubs which were fruited at different times during the colonization phase. A photo was taken every day (except on second day of documentation) to see how fruiting at different times will affect surface colonization and pin set formation while leaving the surface uncased. As always, the experiment could have done with a larger sample number and a variety of different clones/genetics. At this point this is showing not more than a tendency but it is a good starting point to build on with more of the same comparisons to be run in the future. Please excuse that the photos were not taken under consistent lighting conditions as the surface growth appears lighter or thicker under varying light, something to keep in mind in the future.
All tubs were spawned to H-manure coir substrate that was prepared by dissolving the manure in water for pasteurization and using the liquid to hydrate coir like it is describes in this post. All 4 Jambo tubs are unmodified monos and again, a casing was not applied.
JAMBO
Photos showing development from day 7 to day 12 after spawn.
Jambo Tub A: fruited at spawn. 241g wet weight first flush.

2nd flush (110g):

Jambo Tub B: fruited 1 day after spawn. 216g wet weight first flush.

2nd flush (122g):

Jambo Tub C: fruited 2 days after spawn. 201g wet weight first flush.

2nd flush Tub C (117g):

Jambo Tub D: fruited 4 days after spawn. 207g wet weight first flush.

2nd flush Tub D (140g):

Observation Jambo:
As said above, the sample size is too small to make a claim that things are one way or the other and different clones will produce different outcomes of such an experiment. What I have observed though is that the surface is less overgrown and therefore stays more open the sooner the substrate is exposed to fruiting conditions. A more open uncased surface allows for better moisture adsorption instead of having the water pooling on top of a matted surface. The pins are more evenly distributed the earlier fruiting conditions were applied. The substrate that was fruited at spawn was the fastest to finish and started sporulating quite a lot when letting it run for the same time as the others.
NEC-D
I only had 2 Nec-D spawn jars and only 1 unmodified tub left which made a comparison like above pointless but I thought fruiting both side by side might show how the different types of tub influences the growth.
Photos showing development from day 6 to day 12 after spawn.
Nec-D Tub A: old school mono (4 bottom holes/2 top holes), fruited at spawn. 250g wet weight first flush.

2nd flush Tub A (81g):

Nec-D Tub B: unmodified mono, fruited 2 days after spawn. 229g wet weight first flush.

2nd flush Tub B (104g):

Observation Nec-D:
There is not really a point in comparing these two tubs to each other. The tub that was fruited 2 days after spawn did colonize and fruit similar to it's Jambo counterpart which is at least supporting results from the Jambo comparison. 1st and 2nd flush of the old school tub fruited at spawn merged seamlessly into each other.

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Baba Yaga
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: SirPsycho] 2
#28158304 - 01/26/23 12:26 PM (1 year, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
SirPsycho said:
Quote:
Baba Yaga said:
Quote:
SirPsycho said:

My first pan pin. Cyan huasteca RDU.
Yeay man, the feeling is unbeatable.
Are you keeping those in bottles as well?
Yep, straw and rye bottles. So far I've just had the lids flipped.
IIRC you said you did your desk bottle with a bag on, right?
Yep, like this and switched to a pop bottle top once fruits were getting too big to remove the bag safely.

A baggy worked for the novelty grows as well
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Hindsight
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Baba Yaga]
#28158305 - 01/26/23 12:26 PM (1 year, 3 days ago) |
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Thanks Baba, will give it a try without casing on these Mystery SA's. In terms of fruiting conditions at spawn - I could do that by just putting the trays in the tent immediately, instead of what I do now which is have them sitting outside the tent on a shelf with the lid on them until 100%. My only fear would be increased risk of contamination by putting them open in the tent with just a pseudocasing. But the only way to know for sure is to try it!
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Baba Yaga
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Hindsight]
#28158316 - 01/26/23 12:33 PM (1 year, 3 days ago) |
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I would be worried that the uncolonized portion of the substrate is taking up too much water if I understand what your are planning to do correctly. When initiating fruiting under dry conditions the sub has still time to be colonized before moisture is applied so there is 100% colonization before the first mist.
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Baba Yaga
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Baba Yaga]
#28158318 - 01/26/23 12:34 PM (1 year, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
Telomere said:
Forbidden Enoki
Amazing that you do this in monos. I need to read your thread asap.
Thanks man.
The OP doesn't include unmodded tubs yet, so make sure to read the last pages as well.
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SirPsycho
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Baba Yaga]
#28158321 - 01/26/23 12:37 PM (1 year, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
Baba Yaga said:
Quote:
SirPsycho said:
Quote:
Baba Yaga said:
Quote:
SirPsycho said:

My first pan pin. Cyan huasteca RDU.
Yeay man, the feeling is unbeatable.
Are you keeping those in bottles as well?
Yep, straw and rye bottles. So far I've just had the lids flipped.
IIRC you said you did your desk bottle with a bag on, right?
Yep, like this and switched to a pop bottle top once fruits were getting too big to remove the bag safely.

A baggy worked for the novelty grows as well

And how did you handle misting? Or did you even mist at all?
--------------------
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Hindsight
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Baba Yaga] 2
#28158331 - 01/26/23 12:44 PM (1 year, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
Baba Yaga said: I would be worried that the uncolonized portion of the substrate is taking up too much water if I understand what your are planning to do correctly. When initiating fruiting under dry conditions the sub has still time to be colonized before moisture is applied so there is 100% colonization before the first mist.
Yes but I can adjust that by tweaking my cycles. I do it all the time anyway since the different species I grow tend to have different watering needs. The vast majority of the moisture that enters the tent as fog and ends as water being added to the casing/substrate is all evaporated away during the evaporation cycle. I would say like 95-100% of it is evaporated. 0-5% stays in the sub/casing for the mycelium to consume. It varies though - some things are thirsty and some don't need any water added at all.
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Baba Yaga
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Hindsight] 1
#28158335 - 01/26/23 12:47 PM (1 year, 3 days ago) |
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Sweet, will stay tuned for that. I hope it will work out and we will see some nice mystery pans.
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Baba Yaga
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: SirPsycho] 1
#28158336 - 01/26/23 12:48 PM (1 year, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
SirPsycho said:
And how did you handle misting? Or did you even mist at all?
Yes they were misted as needed, either took off the bag or with the novelty grows I had cut the corners away so I could fit the nozzle of the sprayer in there.
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SirPsycho
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Baba Yaga]
#28158345 - 01/26/23 12:56 PM (1 year, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
Baba Yaga said:
Quote:
SirPsycho said:
And how did you handle misting? Or did you even mist at all?
Yes they were misted as needed, either took off the bag or with the novelty grows I had cut the corners away so I could fit the nozzle of the sprayer in there.

Perfect, that answered both my would be questions.
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Adas
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: SirPsycho] 1
#28158406 - 01/26/23 01:42 PM (1 year, 3 days ago) |
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Amazing as always, Baba!
Unfortunately, my Bisporus tub surface looked terrible and no pinning since full colonization (16 Jan), so I decided to case it. Standard potting soil, but incubated with Bacillus subtilis for 2 days or so. These mushrooms really hate being uncased.
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Hindsight
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Adas] 5
#28158428 - 01/26/23 01:56 PM (1 year, 3 days ago) |
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So here is what is happening with my Mystery SA:

Never had a pan do this to me, but I have heard that this variety might be very different from normal pans. Some have even said it grows on wood. I don't think anyone has sequenced it yet. Will be interesting to see what it does without a casing layer.
Second flush BVI:
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Baba Yaga
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Hindsight]
#28158449 - 01/26/23 02:12 PM (1 year, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
Adas said: Amazing as always, Baba!
Unfortunately, my Bisporus tub surface looked terrible and no pinning since full colonization (16 Jan), so I decided to case it. Standard potting soil, but incubated with Bacillus subtilis for 2 days or so. These mushrooms really hate being uncased.
Casing will reset the surface to some degree so maybe this will do the trick.
Got a photo of the surface prior to casing?
Quote:
Hindsight said: So here is what is happening with my Mystery SA:

Never had a pan do this to me, but I have heard that this variety might be very different from normal pans. Some have even said it grows on wood. I don't think anyone has sequenced it yet. Will be interesting to see what it does without a casing layer.
Fingers crossed. Were there lots more side pins? Any knots forming on the bottom?
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