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FriedEgg



Registered: 09/22/14
Posts: 2,536
Loc: Taiwan
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Mr Piggy] 2
#28129332 - 01/07/23 01:37 PM (1 year, 22 days ago) |
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i have a theory that overlay is caused by an environment of overly high humidity and low evaporation. we know that mushrooms have two "modes" and they are usually in one or the other.... "colonizing mode" and "fruiting mode".
colonizing mode = 99% humidity, low evaporation, not yet reached full colonization, high CO2 fruiting mode = 85-94% humidity (low enough to allow evaporation), high evaporation rate, low CO2, fresh air
i believe overlay is just a result of the mycelium being stuck in "colonizing mode" when you really want it to be in fruiting mode. i've noticed my trays tend to overlay and devour the casing layer when my fruiting chamber is too humid and doesn't have enough FAE or evaporation.
thoughts? comments?
-------------------- (Yes, the egg is real)
How to post pics
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Adas
Lonely Dreamer



Registered: 12/22/16
Posts: 5,270
Loc: Central EU
Last seen: 4 hours, 6 minutes
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Mr Piggy]
#28129358 - 01/07/23 01:58 PM (1 year, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
Mr Piggy said: Make the biggest Psilocybe cyan patch ever and don't look back.
Biggest mistake? Best opportunity to meet god, and then bite the fucker.
Sawdust is prolly not the best for making patches, but I'll try to make the most of it.
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Hindsight
Mad Scientist


Registered: 01/24/21
Posts: 2,706
Last seen: 9 months, 4 days
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: SirPsycho] 1
#28129390 - 01/07/23 02:19 PM (1 year, 21 days ago) |
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Agree with SP, Adas! Try it!! You have little to lose. If you do, please let us know what happens.
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Baba Yaga
♥ coir grower

Registered: 09/13/20
Posts: 3,958
Loc: Hyperspace Chicken Coop
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Hindsight] 2
#28129430 - 01/07/23 03:01 PM (1 year, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
FriedEgg said: i have a theory that overlay is caused by an environment of overly high humidity and low evaporation. we know that mushrooms have two "modes" and they are usually in one or the other.... "colonizing mode" and "fruiting mode".
colonizing mode = 99% humidity, low evaporation, not yet reached full colonization, high CO2 fruiting mode = 85-94% humidity (low enough to allow evaporation), high evaporation rate, low CO2, fresh air
i believe overlay is just a result of the mycelium being stuck in "colonizing mode" when you really want it to be in fruiting mode. i've noticed my trays tend to overlay and devour the casing layer when my fruiting chamber is too humid and doesn't have enough FAE or evaporation.
thoughts? comments?
Giving more FAE is definitely one of the factors to signal the mycelium that it has reached the point were it is time to start making fruit bodies. This is why I am playing around with exposure to full fruiting conditions @ spawn and try to get to a point where casing is absolute obsolete. Overlay is not a deal breaker though and tubs can still produce decently.
Here is the difference in surface colonization between conventionally colonized substrate and fruiting conditions given from 3rd day after spawn. Don't mind the fork scratching. I did this because I never have done it and read a lot about it in older posts....just playing around.

and this is a tub with full fruiting conditions right from the start.

Running the surface a bit dryer seems to be beneficial for knot development as well. So yeah, it is definitely a thing and quite logical cause mushrooms have no eyes and evaporation/FAE/CO2 levels are how they orientate themselves. Still trying to figure out the best timing to switch conditions as pans are moving fast but also are delayed in reaction, like hitting the break on a train and then it is also slightly different with each culture that is running.
Not sure how you would manage to adjust RH and FAE to control overlay efficiently in a grow tent when running multiple trays at different stages of growth, this is where growing in tubs has an advantage.
Anyway, at the moment this is the most interesting area to explore in pan cultivation IMO as I think that a casing is absolutely unnecessary if done right. If you think about it, it's really just treating them like cubes
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mushroom_gnome
Stranger


Registered: 06/30/22
Posts: 82
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Baba Yaga] 1
#28129504 - 01/07/23 04:25 PM (1 year, 21 days ago) |
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I think they can be treated pretty much just like cubes if the culture is strong and things are kept clean through-out the process.
Adas: you might of messed up, but at least you didn't accidently spray a tub with ISO instead of water
-------------------- Mystery Mushroom
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Moopers
Pan noob



Registered: 05/08/20
Posts: 525
Last seen: 1 month, 26 days
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: mushroom_gnome] 6
#28129767 - 01/07/23 07:43 PM (1 year, 21 days ago) |
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Hi all, I just posted in the Marketplace, 5 light prints to give away and 4 regular prints to trade, of Pan cyan "Weza South Africa" grown in the JCM chamber, prints taken with eat's OG print tek. I haven't seen anyone else mentioning growing the Weza variety here, so I figured I'd post here in case anyone would be interested.
My thanks to all the folks on here who have given me advice and shared their experience/expertise, and to JCM for the chamber tek. It's been a long 2.5 years learning to grow this genus successfully, and with two decent grows under my belt, you all have my gratitude!
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Hindsight
Mad Scientist


Registered: 01/24/21
Posts: 2,706
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Moopers]
#28130224 - 01/08/23 07:12 AM (1 year, 21 days ago) |
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Hey Moopers, is Weza that same thing as the "Mystery South Africa" there has been mention of lately? I have a Mystery SA print and am fruiting it now.
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Moopers
Pan noob



Registered: 05/08/20
Posts: 525
Last seen: 1 month, 26 days
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Hindsight] 1
#28130500 - 01/08/23 10:40 AM (1 year, 21 days ago) |
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I don't think so? The Weza caps and stems are very light when mature. I think the source is the same person, though. I got it from a now-defunct vendor that sourced prints from zifo.
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THE MYCOSMITH
Weekend mycologist


Registered: 01/24/22
Posts: 171
Last seen: 13 hours, 1 minute
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Moopers] 6
#28130837 - 01/08/23 02:16 PM (1 year, 20 days ago) |
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Hallo guys
Update on my first attempt on Mystery south africa. And yes i can sadly only call it a attempt. It took 3 and a half week to pin and now after 1 and a half week more i will call it a abort. Its in the left tray i have put some of it to agar. I was also running my new taraium way to dry the first 2-3 weeks and think thats why its fruits so bad. The tray on the right is my first attempt on pan. Bispo. Its 14 days in to fruit first pin after 8 days

Bispo from side

I have just put casing on this trays. The two on top is Mystery south africa. And bottom is pan. Bispo

And pic of my new taraium (on the left old fruit chamber and on the right new fruit chamber
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ruawakeyet


Registered: 05/03/21
Posts: 1,862
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: THE MYCOSMITH] 2
#28130853 - 01/08/23 02:28 PM (1 year, 20 days ago) |
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That's unfortunate on the Mystery SA, but those bispos are looking great! I also have to say that your picture size is perfect IMO. I can expand the view without it being too large. So many pictures are gigantic when I expand them, and I can only see a small portion of the picture on my screen at a time.
I hope you get that Mystery SA to fruit next time!
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Hindsight
Mad Scientist


Registered: 01/24/21
Posts: 2,706
Last seen: 9 months, 4 days
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: ruawakeyet]
#28130885 - 01/08/23 03:03 PM (1 year, 20 days ago) |
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Keep trying Mycosmith. I hope to fruit it as well. Nice bispo trays!
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FriedEgg



Registered: 09/22/14
Posts: 2,536
Loc: Taiwan
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Baba Yaga] 1
#28130891 - 01/08/23 03:07 PM (1 year, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
Baba Yaga said:
Quote:
FriedEgg said: i have a theory that overlay is caused by an environment of overly high humidity and low evaporation. we know that mushrooms have two "modes" and they are usually in one or the other.... "colonizing mode" and "fruiting mode".
colonizing mode = 99% humidity, low evaporation, not yet reached full colonization, high CO2 fruiting mode = 85-94% humidity (low enough to allow evaporation), high evaporation rate, low CO2, fresh air
i believe overlay is just a result of the mycelium being stuck in "colonizing mode" when you really want it to be in fruiting mode. i've noticed my trays tend to overlay and devour the casing layer when my fruiting chamber is too humid and doesn't have enough FAE or evaporation.
thoughts? comments?
Giving more FAE is definitely one of the factors to signal the mycelium that it has reached the point were it is time to start making fruit bodies. This is why I am playing around with exposure to full fruiting conditions @ spawn and try to get to a point where casing is absolute obsolete. Overlay is not a deal breaker though and tubs can still produce decently.
Here is the difference in surface colonization between conventionally colonized substrate and fruiting conditions given from 3rd day after spawn. Don't mind the fork scratching. I did this because I never have done it and read a lot about it in older posts....just playing around.

and this is a tub with full fruiting conditions right from the start.

Running the surface a bit dryer seems to be beneficial for knot development as well. So yeah, it is definitely a thing and quite logical cause mushrooms have no eyes and evaporation/FAE/CO2 levels are how they orientate themselves. Still trying to figure out the best timing to switch conditions as pans are moving fast but also are delayed in reaction, like hitting the break on a train and then it is also slightly different with each culture that is running.
Not sure how you would manage to adjust RH and FAE to control overlay efficiently in a grow tent when running multiple trays at different stages of growth, this is where growing in tubs has an advantage.
Anyway, at the moment this is the most interesting area to explore in pan cultivation IMO as I think that a casing is absolutely unnecessary if done right. If you think about it, it's really just treating them like cubes 
Very good points. Nature doesn't use a casing layer. These grow on straight manure in the wild.
When it comes to cubes, yes I agree that casing layers are not necessary BUT they can be helpful depending on your equipment or environment.
Growing cubes in tubs sucks compared to growing in a legit fruiting room with ventilation. I have a fruiting room for my gourmets and I've put cubes in there before. It's a night and day difference. The uncased substrates in my fruiting room look better than the cased substrates in tubs.
So I think it's all about the environment you can give them. But sometimes you need to use a casing layer because your equipment or environment isn't ideal and there's now way to change that unless you move to a more humid location or buy new equipment. Unless you live in a very humid area, it's hard to provide enough humidity for a pinset while also giving maximum FAE for fruit development. In cases like that, you're stuck using a casing layer. But with a fruiting room that you can control, I agree 100% casing layers are unnecessary (for some varieties).
Yaga, Just out of curiosity, what is the RH in your house where you grow pans in tubs? Mine is about 15% RH. If you also live in a dry area, I'd like to know what I'm doing wrong
-------------------- (Yes, the egg is real)
How to post pics
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THE MYCOSMITH
Weekend mycologist


Registered: 01/24/22
Posts: 171
Last seen: 13 hours, 1 minute
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: FriedEgg] 1
#28130901 - 01/08/23 03:13 PM (1 year, 20 days ago) |
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Thank you shithead (ruawakeyet) glad you like it but I think the bispo tray looking even better tomorrow when more are mature. I just have to clon today and I want to show a pic of both. Iam sure on that one Day i will retur with some Mystery sa. Best luck to you to.
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Baba Yaga
♥ coir grower

Registered: 09/13/20
Posts: 3,958
Loc: Hyperspace Chicken Coop
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: FriedEgg]
#28130985 - 01/08/23 04:21 PM (1 year, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
FriedEgg said:
Quote:
Baba Yaga said:
Quote:
FriedEgg said: i have a theory that overlay is caused by an environment of overly high humidity and low evaporation. we know that mushrooms have two "modes" and they are usually in one or the other.... "colonizing mode" and "fruiting mode".
colonizing mode = 99% humidity, low evaporation, not yet reached full colonization, high CO2 fruiting mode = 85-94% humidity (low enough to allow evaporation), high evaporation rate, low CO2, fresh air
i believe overlay is just a result of the mycelium being stuck in "colonizing mode" when you really want it to be in fruiting mode. i've noticed my trays tend to overlay and devour the casing layer when my fruiting chamber is too humid and doesn't have enough FAE or evaporation.
thoughts? comments?
Giving more FAE is definitely one of the factors to signal the mycelium that it has reached the point were it is time to start making fruit bodies. This is why I am playing around with exposure to full fruiting conditions @ spawn and try to get to a point where casing is absolute obsolete. Overlay is not a deal breaker though and tubs can still produce decently.
Here is the difference in surface colonization between conventionally colonized substrate and fruiting conditions given from 3rd day after spawn. Don't mind the fork scratching. I did this because I never have done it and read a lot about it in older posts....just playing around.

and this is a tub with full fruiting conditions right from the start.

Running the surface a bit dryer seems to be beneficial for knot development as well. So yeah, it is definitely a thing and quite logical cause mushrooms have no eyes and evaporation/FAE/CO2 levels are how they orientate themselves. Still trying to figure out the best timing to switch conditions as pans are moving fast but also are delayed in reaction, like hitting the break on a train and then it is also slightly different with each culture that is running.
Not sure how you would manage to adjust RH and FAE to control overlay efficiently in a grow tent when running multiple trays at different stages of growth, this is where growing in tubs has an advantage.
Anyway, at the moment this is the most interesting area to explore in pan cultivation IMO as I think that a casing is absolutely unnecessary if done right. If you think about it, it's really just treating them like cubes 
Very good points. Nature doesn't use a casing layer. These grow on straight manure in the wild.
When it comes to cubes, yes I agree that casing layers are not necessary BUT they can be helpful depending on your equipment or environment.
Growing cubes in tubs sucks compared to growing in a legit fruiting room with ventilation. I have a fruiting room for my gourmets and I've put cubes in there before. It's a night and day difference. The uncased substrates in my fruiting room look better than the cased substrates in tubs.
So I think it's all about the environment you can give them. But sometimes you need to use a casing layer because your equipment or environment isn't ideal and there's now way to change that unless you move to a more humid location or buy new equipment. Unless you live in a very humid area, it's hard to provide enough humidity for a pinset while also giving maximum FAE for fruit development. In cases like that, you're stuck using a casing layer. But with a fruiting room that you can control, I agree 100% casing layers are unnecessary (for some varieties).
Yaga, Just out of curiosity, what is the RH in your house where you grow pans in tubs? Mine is about 15% RH. If you also live in a dry area, I'd like to know what I'm doing wrong 
I never measure rH but do look it up on the weather forecast for the region every now and then. Usually it's around 55-60% and I guess it is not that much different inside. I get your point. I should have said a casing layer is not absolutely necessary instead on unnecessary. I aware that it might be of advantage in a dry environment.
If I had a controlled grow room then I would grow cubes and pans in it as well but growing in tubs just doesn't suck enough to build one just for actives alone One of these days I will have a martha for gourmets though.
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Baba Yaga
♥ coir grower

Registered: 09/13/20
Posts: 3,958
Loc: Hyperspace Chicken Coop
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Baba Yaga] 1
#28130995 - 01/08/23 04:30 PM (1 year, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
Baba Yaga said: Not trying to prove anything with this but I thought it is something interesting about bad looking spawn.
The jar below is a MS Jambo culture on whole barley which I was trying out as potential new grain but would consistently turn out like this. I had a few of those and thought I give one a try. Gave it a good shake and split half the content of the jar between those 2 liter bottles in the last photo below. Spawned to H-manure coir substrate closer to a 1:1 ratio IIRC.


After full colonization and consolidation it looked like this. Wasn't too concerned about the yellow cause I get this quite a bit when consolidating cambodginiensis varieties, have to admit though that the yellowing in the right photo is one of the stronger reactions I have seen so far.

After casing I had put the lids on askew. Happy to say that both bottles have fruited. Photos below were taken 16 days after spawn. The bottle that is doing better is actually the one with the stronger yellowing.

Not the best looking spawn and not the best containers to fruit but still got some fruits. Not many though I admit. Will keep those around till they tam out.
Update on the doggy spawn bottles.
Second flush came in and also some yellow mold contam. Seems to turn up more in the second half of summer for some reason and it usually doesn't spread much. Not sure what this is, maybe fusarium. Still producing though.

Anyone getting this yellow mold as well?
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ruawakeyet


Registered: 05/03/21
Posts: 1,862
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Baba Yaga]
#28131007 - 01/08/23 04:38 PM (1 year, 20 days ago) |
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Negative on the yellow mold. Every other color of mold? Now that's a different story! My hobby seems to have become little more than accidentally growing contaminants on agar.
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Scotay
The Mad Mush Guy

Registered: 05/14/22
Posts: 228
Loc: United States
Last seen: 4 days, 13 hours
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: ruawakeyet] 1
#28131288 - 01/08/23 07:49 PM (1 year, 20 days ago) |
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Happy Sunday all you panheads!! I hope your weekend was nice and here's hoping your new year (& mine) are awash in pans here there and everywhere!!😎✌️
-------------------- Just chillin like a Villain and talking to like minded individuals!! Mush Love!! 😎✌️
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Adas
Lonely Dreamer



Registered: 12/22/16
Posts: 5,270
Loc: Central EU
Last seen: 4 hours, 6 minutes
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Baba Yaga]
#28131966 - 01/09/23 10:00 AM (1 year, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
Baba Yaga said: Update on the doggy spawn bottles.
Second flush came in and also some yellow mold contam. Seems to turn up more in the second half of summer for some reason and it usually doesn't spread much. Not sure what this is, maybe fusarium. Still producing though.

Anyone getting this yellow mold as well?
Most likely Aspergillus flavus. Bad shit.
Where did you get these containers? Looks super useful for cakes but I wasn't able to find any, literally anywhere.
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RakassanFist
Strangest



Registered: 10/04/22
Posts: 24
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Adas]
#28132162 - 01/09/23 12:40 PM (1 year, 20 days ago) |
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My Martha tent attempts have all failed. Going to try shoebox/mono next.
-------------------- Yeah I misspelled my brigade. I was a fister anyways. I came here for advice but will gladly take constructive criticism.
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mushroom_gnome
Stranger


Registered: 06/30/22
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: RakassanFist]
#28132190 - 01/09/23 12:58 PM (1 year, 20 days ago) |
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-------------------- Mystery Mushroom
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