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Baba Yaga
♥ coir grower

Registered: 09/13/20
Posts: 3,958
Loc: Hyperspace Chicken Coop
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Quote:
mushroom_gnome said: +1 to this! I have relatively little experience with pans, but my observation so far with working with three different strains is this:
-High level of trait/preference variability between cultures (higher than cubes) -They are much less competitive than your average cube, meaning clean cultures and spawn are important. -They seem to have distinct "momentums" at different stages and it's important to maintain these momentums when possible to avoid stalling (or is this just more culture variability?)
Have others found these to be true as well with pans?
These are very god observations. I fully agree with the first two points but I'm not too sure with the momentum just because I wouldn't know how to prove that at this stage but I think that timing can be important depending on what fruiting strategy one uses and as you mentioned culture variability has the ability to blur the whole picture.
The whole subject is very trick to manage cause troubleshooting is not easy which is one reason why opinions differ so much in this hobby.
Edited by Baba Yaga (12/18/22 12:41 PM)
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mushroom_gnome
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Baba Yaga]
#28103492 - 12/18/22 12:22 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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I think the culture variability adds a huge learning curve because it intrinsically means there is more than one variable right off the bat.
If you get lucky on a culture and have good technique these might seem simple and hence you get people saying "I just grow them like cubes", then like me it may take a while to find a good culture and ends up being a year of tweaking variables when really I think it comes down to the culture mostly.
In terms of the momentum/timing, obviously this is all anecdotal, but I do notice that only making changes to the culture when they have momentum seems to carry them into the next step with more confidence.
Another interesting note on longevity of culture: I've found that some liquid cultures have stored for months at a time in the fridge and are super vigorous when put back to agar, while others can't handle the exact same treatment. Again- culture variability I'm pretty sure.
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Baba Yaga
♥ coir grower

Registered: 09/13/20
Posts: 3,958
Loc: Hyperspace Chicken Coop
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Yes, one has to tweak on both ends to make sure.
I also think that absolute values in terms of temperature, humidity and FAE for example are less important than the actual rate and degree of change if that makes sense.
Could talk all day but have to go now, good stuff though.
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FriedEgg



Registered: 09/22/14
Posts: 2,536
Loc: Taiwan
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Baba Yaga]
#28104208 - 12/18/22 08:26 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Baba Yaga said:
This morning I found some pins 8 days after spawn, wasn't cased either. The substrate was done with liquid manure pasteurization.


Quote:
Baba Yaga said: I also think that absolute values in terms of temperature, humidity and FAE for example are less important than the actual rate and degree of change
what do you mean?
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rockyfungus
dirty


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Loc: Front range
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: FriedEgg]
#28104829 - 12/19/22 01:05 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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I've grown pans with oysters. Basically you want good evaporation off the substrate while retaining moisture. At least in in my opinion.
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Scotay
The Mad Mush Guy

Registered: 05/14/22
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Loc: United States
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: rockyfungus]
#28104840 - 12/19/22 01:12 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Happy Monday panheads! I hope everybody had a great weekend. Is everybody ready for the holidays? What about New Year's? Any special plans? Just want everyone to know I appreciate all the information that y'all share. I've always been the nerdy science Guy. Never fit in. but this community seems to accept everybody. Just want you to know it's appreciated. 😎✌️
-------------------- Just chillin like a Villain and talking to like minded individuals!! Mush Love!! 😎✌️
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Baba Yaga
♥ coir grower

Registered: 09/13/20
Posts: 3,958
Loc: Hyperspace Chicken Coop
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: FriedEgg] 1
#28104856 - 12/19/22 01:43 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
FriedEgg said:
Quote:
Baba Yaga said: I also think that absolute values in terms of temperature, humidity and FAE for example are less important than the actual rate and degree of change
what do you mean?
That is more the beginning of a theory forming in my head than anything else and I don't have enough experience looking into it to back this up or even having a discussion about it, let's leave that for later. The simplified version is that the range of conditions is wider than what was is commonly accepted.
Anyway, will be busy for a while.
Happy Holidays!
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drex
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Baba Yaga] 2
#28105399 - 12/19/22 10:20 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Hey all, I have some successful Pan. cyan grows under my belt. Purchased some Pan. bisporus spores from a reputable seller and got a mushroom with a thin annulus. Do you guys think this is a Pan. or are my instincts correct that it's some cube variant?
 
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kirkeng
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: drex] 2
#28105402 - 12/19/22 10:26 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Looks like a cube to me, don’t believe any pan has a veil. Definitely not a bisporus.
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ruawakeyet


Registered: 05/03/21
Posts: 1,862
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: drex] 1
#28105403 - 12/19/22 10:27 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Those look like a Pan and a Cube fucked. The stripes in the stem, the gills, and some of the caps look like pans, but the thickness of the stems, some of the other caps, and the veils definitely scream cube.
I have no clue!
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drex
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: ruawakeyet] 1
#28105408 - 12/19/22 10:32 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
ruawakeyet said:

Those look like a Pan and a Cube fucked. The stripes in the stem, the gills, and some of the caps look like pans, but the thickness of the stems, some of the other caps, and the veils definitely scream cube.
I have no clue!
This is what has me confused. So many features of a pan, but then the annulus throws it. There's no veil or veil remnants. Gonna have to to catch them at an earlier stage in the grow.
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ruawakeyet


Registered: 05/03/21
Posts: 1,862
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: drex]
#28105412 - 12/19/22 10:36 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Are you taking some spore prints?! It looks like maybe one cap was cut off, so I'm assuming. This is intriguing!
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drex
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: ruawakeyet] 1
#28105417 - 12/19/22 10:40 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Yes, I've got a bunch of spore prints. This little grow was just a test. I have a big tray pinning as we speak. I'm so confused as to what the hell is going on. Got the MSS from one of the OG spore suppliers.
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ruawakeyet


Registered: 05/03/21
Posts: 1,862
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: drex]
#28105419 - 12/19/22 10:43 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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I'm definitely interested in seeing a picture when they're a bit younger. Kirkeng is right, that is definitely not Bisporus.
LOL, bio-essaying those could be interesting!
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Mycolorado
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: drex] 1
#28105421 - 12/19/22 10:44 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Spores black or purple?
Edit: look purple which would indicate cube though there are some purple spore pan mutants it would appear.
Edited by Mycolorado (12/19/22 10:52 PM)
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ruawakeyet


Registered: 05/03/21
Posts: 1,862
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Mycolorado]
#28105427 - 12/19/22 10:55 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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I was thinking microscopy might be necessary. The pan that I've had the most experience with has purple spores. (Purple Huastralian Venom, or PHV) They didn't look like those though.
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drex
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Mycolorado] 1
#28105429 - 12/19/22 10:57 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Mycolorado said: Spores black or purple?
Somewhere between purple and black. Closer to black, but maybe not as dark as my Pan cyans.
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ruawakeyet


Registered: 05/03/21
Posts: 1,862
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: drex]
#28105439 - 12/19/22 11:07 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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I really want a microscope for reasons like this.
This is going to keep me up tonight. They look like a pan/cube hybrid, but I don't think that's remotely possible. I would say I know that's impossible, but I don't know shit.
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drex
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: ruawakeyet]
#28105441 - 12/19/22 11:12 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
ruawakeyet said: I'm definitely interested in seeing a picture when they're a bit younger. Kirkeng is right, that is definitely not Bisporus.
LOL, bio-essaying those could be interesting!

Some pics of the full grow in its current state.
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FriedEgg



Registered: 09/22/14
Posts: 2,536
Loc: Taiwan
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: drex] 1
#28105442 - 12/19/22 11:13 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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those spores look purple from the photos. my guess is cubes. but you can try posting in the mushroom identification forum. the people there are pretty good.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/postlist.php/Board/3
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