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Baba Yaga
β₯ coir grower

Registered: 09/13/20
Posts: 3,958
Loc: Hyperspace Chicken Coop
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: mistermushly] 6
#28102874 - 12/18/22 12:17 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Good stuff 99, cool to see another case which shows that a casing for pans is overrated. It is worthwhile trying going through a lot of cultures and searching for some good clones. These cambos I gave you would almost never abort when I misted them but then out of the blue another culture would occasionally. Another example is the Bunnell clone I ran last which aborted when misted but the MS tub from before was just happy getting wet.
The unmodified tub is working OK and I hardly need to mist at the moment cause it is raining so much. The caps are staying moist without any intervention but when misting is necessary they actually are enjoying themself.

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Baba Yaga
β₯ coir grower

Registered: 09/13/20
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Baba Yaga] 1
#28102933 - 12/18/22 02:18 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Hey Hindsight, these are the Nec-D you had send me. Can you please tell me how common it is to get red spored fruits with these. I think I asked this before but can't recall getting an answer.
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Shrimps
Traveler



Registered: 10/13/22
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Baba Yaga] 1
#28102960 - 12/18/22 03:52 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Baba Yaga said: Good stuff 99, cool to see another case which shows that a casing for pans is overrated. It is worthwhile trying going through a lot of cultures and searching for some good clones. These cambos I gave you would almost never abort when I misted them but then out of the blue another culture would occasionally. Another example is the Bunnell clone I ran last which aborted when misted but the MS tub from before was just happy getting wet.
The unmodified tub is working OK and I hardly need to mist at the moment cause it is raining so much. The caps are staying moist without any intervention but when misting is necessary they actually are enjoying themself.


Damn it baba, you're killing it with this tub! Awesome man!
-------------------- I am not crazy, I prefer the term mentally hillarious. Agar - The way to go! Clean spawn checklist Proper Surface Moisture Recognizing and dealing with contamination π
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SirPsycho
Purple Belt in Google-Fu



Registered: 01/01/20
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Shrimps] 6
#28103099 - 12/18/22 08:16 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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 Pan cyan huasteca on rye and straw. Got cased today. The jar on the left is the one I forgot to tighten the lid on before shaking and it of course contaminated.

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Ask me about free Ps tampanesis, Ps subtropicalis and Ps cubensis (ESS) prints Balance in life is like running on ice.
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Hindsight
Mad Scientist


Registered: 01/24/21
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Baba Yaga] 1
#28103137 - 12/18/22 08:49 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Baba Yaga said: Hey Hindsight, these are the Nec-D you had send me. Can you please tell me how common it is to get red spored fruits with these. I think I asked this before but can't recall getting an answer.
Nice!! Those look great. I never had a red spored NecD. Spore print always looked black! Maybe you stumbled on something unique? I feel like Nec-D seems to have a lot of variability. I got those white ones, for example. Still trying to grow them out. Have a tray of them in my JCM right now while I re-assemble my grow area.
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Hindsight
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: ruawakeyet] 1
#28103148 - 12/18/22 08:56 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
ruawakeyet said: That was actually in your Experiments with Growing Trich thread, after I helped it get off topic a bit. (Sorry again for that.)
I had to look up what phorid flies look like, and I thought that was what I had, until I finally caught one on a piece of tape and examined it under a magnifying glass. It turns out they actually are fungus gnats. (With how bad my eyes are becoming, I'm going to need a microscope just to look at an insect.)
Luckily I don't have any substrate going right now. I have an indoor veggie garden in a raised bed that is making a wonderful home for them. I've had mosquito dunks (package claims to kill fungus gnat larvae as well) in my garden water bucket for over a month now, but they must still be hatching because I have adults all over the garden.
I still need to get some molasses to add to my water to hopefully culture more BTI than is currently being produced. I also wonder if chlorine and chloramine can kill BTI. I might have to start treating my water with aquarium safe and then add mosquito dunks.
Ah ok. Well I am not 100% certain I have phorid flies and not some other kind of fly, but I'm about 98% certain (from naked-eye examination and their behavior) and will know 100% once I look at them under the scope. In any case, both BT and Spinosad should kill fungus gnat larvae, as well as phorid fly larvae.
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Hindsight
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: mistermushly]
#28103187 - 12/18/22 09:32 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
mistermushly said: ahaa I see it now -
The water droplets are on the outside - makes sense, I used to run a Martha and remember everything raining down.
Invaluable info 99 - congrats on the success : ) - Just starting with Pans but I'm thinking I may try a modified version of your lids if I continue to get mediocre results.
If you use a tent, all the ones I have seen have a peaked roof, so any droplets forming would go to the side and then roll down the sides of the tent.
99.99, just out of curiosity, why do you have lids over your trays in the tent? I've always run my trays wide open in the tent.
mistermushly, the water droplets on a JCM lid are a problem. The JCM thread has some posts about it, I think. I need to go back and find them because I'm having that issue on the JCM I just built to get me by for a week or so while I rebuild my tent.
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Shrimps
Traveler



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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Hindsight]
#28103213 - 12/18/22 09:50 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Hindsight said: the water droplets on a JCM lid are a problem. The JCM thread has some posts about it, I think. I need to go back and find them because I'm having that issue on the JCM I just built to get me by for a week or so while I rebuild my tent.
Would a be a big problem just lifting the lid on one side for about 1cm? That way it would flow down one side and drip back into the water.
If the gap would be a problem, it also could just be taped (just brainstorming here)
-------------------- I am not crazy, I prefer the term mentally hillarious. Agar - The way to go! Clean spawn checklist Proper Surface Moisture Recognizing and dealing with contamination π
π΄ π° πΌ π² π» πΈ π½ πΆ π
π
π° πΏ
Edited by Shrimps (12/18/22 09:50 AM)
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FriedEgg



Registered: 09/22/14
Posts: 2,536
Loc: Taiwan
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Shrimps] 4
#28103306 - 12/18/22 10:25 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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things have really changed over the last few years. it seems like every time i stop in this thread, techniques are different. i'm excited to see where things will be 5 years from now.
if i were to make a list called "Pan Myths that were once believed to be true":
pans do better with a super low spawn ratio (1:5 or lower) a higher spawn ratio is detremintal high temperatures (80F) are necessary wispy spawn is necessary you can't grow pans in a tub
anyone else care to contribute to the list? what about pH? substrate depth? timing? what else have you noticed that has changed or no longer true?
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ruawakeyet


Registered: 05/03/21
Posts: 1,862
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: FriedEgg] 2
#28103321 - 12/18/22 10:33 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Yeah, the substrate depth has also changed!
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SwabMarley
Twisted Metal Head



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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: ruawakeyet] 5
#28103332 - 12/18/22 10:37 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Pan Estero coming along nicely after 5 days. Has what seems to be that trademark tortoise shell surface colonisation.
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Mycolorado
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: SwabMarley]
#28103336 - 12/18/22 10:40 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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What sub you running?
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SwabMarley
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Mycolorado] 1
#28103371 - 12/18/22 11:03 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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50/50 coir/manure based compost.
Never thought about that being a factor, good call.
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Mycolorado
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: SwabMarley]
#28103376 - 12/18/22 11:05 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Was just curious. What were you thinking?
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SwabMarley
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Mycolorado]
#28103381 - 12/18/22 11:09 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Thinking maybe something to do with the manure based compost. This has a top layer of about 3mm of CV. Itβs the only Sub I have used for Pans so I wouldnβt know how they look otherwise (in person).
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Baba Yaga
β₯ coir grower

Registered: 09/13/20
Posts: 3,958
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: ruawakeyet] 5
#28103387 - 12/18/22 11:14 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
FriedEgg said: things have really changed over the last few years. it seems like every time i stop in this thread, techniques are different. i'm excited to see where things will be 5 years from now.
if i were to make a list called "Pan Myths that were once believed to be true":
pans do better with a super low spawn ratio (1:5 or lower) a higher spawn ratio is detremintal high temperatures (80F) are necessary wispy spawn is necessary you can't grow pans in a tub
anyone else care to contribute to the list? what about pH? substrate depth? timing? what else have you noticed that has changed or no longer true?
Quote:
ruawakeyet said: Yeah, the substrate depth has also changed!
I am working on a Mythbuster Thread for Pans and collecting and trying to run examples, finding out why some things are happening cause it needs to have some sort of foundation or it will end up in one of those discussions that go nowhere. That's why I am happy to se Myc_Hunt running 2 month old spawn because one of the myths is:
pan spawn needs be run fresh because it doesn't like to sit around
to add also to the list:
pans need straw pans need casing pans don't like huge temperature swings pans and lower temps are a no go pans need super high FAE
I don't want to be too cocky and say all of this is total nonsense but all these points should not be treated as rules. Probably mostly a false correlation between cause and effect by overlooking underlying other factors. Well, luckily we are getting away from this more and more.
Pans can be finicky, yes, but I think that this often comes down to specific cultures. I see people that do grow a lot of cubes saying "this comes down to genetics" "it's a bung culture" "non fruiting strain" but when it comes to pans it is or was more often than not something else. Not forgetting the contamination factor too.
Oh man already getting in too deep. It will be a bit of work to put something like that together and it needs to be worded right but I could start it soon with what I got and make it a living document with updates and everyone can contribute.
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Baba Yaga
β₯ coir grower

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Posts: 3,958
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: SirPsycho]
#28103391 - 12/18/22 11:17 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Myc Hunt said: Pan Estero coming along nicely after 5 days. Has what seems to be that trademark tortoise shell surface colonisation.

I get this a lot with coir compost, sometimes I don't though.
Quote:
SirPsycho said:

Have you used straw pellets? Looks just like rabbit poop.
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FriedEgg



Registered: 09/22/14
Posts: 2,536
Loc: Taiwan
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Baba Yaga] 3
#28103454 - 12/18/22 11:53 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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yaga: that would be great . i feel behind because i took a few years off from growing pans and now so much info has changed. it would be nice if someone were to list out the meta strategy now and dispel all the old myths.
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mushroom_gnome
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: FriedEgg] 2
#28103469 - 12/18/22 12:03 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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+1 to this! I have relatively little experience with pans, but my observation so far with working with three different strains is this:
-High level of trait/preference variability between cultures (higher than cubes) -They are much less competitive than your average cube, meaning clean cultures and spawn are important. -They seem to have distinct "momentums" at different stages and it's important to maintain these momentums when possible to avoid stalling (or is this just more culture variability?)
I find angam's grows where everything is sterilized to be especially interesting.
Have others found these to be true as well with pans?
Edited by mushroom_gnome (12/18/22 12:09 PM)
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Baba Yaga
β₯ coir grower

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: FriedEgg] 3
#28103471 - 12/18/22 12:04 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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It's in the works but will take some more time.
Here is another interesting thing which I also posted on the tub thread
Had an unmodified tub which had mites in it from a prepped substrate that was sitting in a bucket for a bit too long.

It was put out on the porch were it sat for 7 days at temperatures between 55F and 72F and humid weather. The lid was put on like this, upside down with just the gaps on the short ends.


This morning I found some pins 8 days after spawn, wasn't cased either. The substrate was done with liquid manure pasteurization.

Edited by Baba Yaga (12/18/22 12:19 PM)
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