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InvisibleBaba Yaga
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: PanMax]
    #28012908 - 10/23/22 05:25 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Quote:

PanMax said:
Thoughts on how they’re looking??







Caps looking like that are not normal and an indication that there is something wrong IMHO. I would suspect a contamination stressing your grow.
I bet that these fruits are most likely not getting very big and the grow will trich out fairly early. Last time I saw this was with one of 0t0lerances grows. He thought back then that it was an environmental thing but I tend to think contam.

Haven't really seen enough of this to even turn this hunch into a theory yet and I hope I'm wrong, but these are my 2 cents at this point.

Time will tell.


found a couple of 0t0lerances posts:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27844561#27844561
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27855565#27855565


Edited by Baba Yaga (10/25/22 07:13 PM)


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OfflinePanMax
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Baba Yaga]
    #28013008 - 10/23/22 06:10 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

We
Quote:

Baba Yaga said:
Quote:

PanMax said:
Thoughts on how they’re looking??







Caps looking like that are not normal and an indication that there is something wrong IMHO. I would suspect a contamination stressing your grow.
I bet that these fruits are most likely not getting very big and the grow will trich out fairly early. Last time I saw this was with one of 0t0lerances grows. He thought back then that it was an environmental thing but I tend to think contam.

Haven't really seen enough of this to even turn this hunch into a theory yet and I hope I'm wrong, but these are my 2 cents at this point.

Time will tell.


found a couple of 0t0lerances posts:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27844561#27844561
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27855565#27855565




Well that sucks.  So what should i do at this point?

What do I look for if it starts to turn bad?


--------------------
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Edited by PanMax (10/23/22 06:42 PM)


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Invisibleruawakeyet
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: PanMax] * 3
    #28013045 - 10/23/22 06:34 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

I picked up 2 tubs of field-aged, grass-fed cow pies today! The 5 gallon bucket is only there for size reference. I will be comparing cow / horse / and a 50/50 mix of cow and horse, all combined with other regular bulk ingredients.

I'm really hoping I like the cow pies better, because it's much easier to find grass-fed cow poop than it is to find grass-fed horse poop. All the horse poop that I've found has a lot of grain in it, and much of it is undigested. What I picked up today looks grain free from what I can see. I feel more confident using it for my pasteurized bulk, but I'm reserving judgment until I can see some results.



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Invisibleruawakeyet
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: PanMax]
    #28013058 - 10/23/22 06:42 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Quote:

PanMax said:Well that sucks.  So what should i do at this point?




IMO, I would keep it going for now. You'll learn something from it, hopefully myself and others will learn something from it as well. You can always decide to pull em at any point.

You do have more generations in the works, right? (Cultures on agar; on grain?) If necessary, go all the way back to spore and start over on getting a clean culture.


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InvisibleBaba Yaga
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: PanMax] * 1
    #28013060 - 10/23/22 06:43 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Just leave it be, see what happens and get the next lot of spawn ready which I assume you already got in the works.

I am curious to see how this turns out tbh as I don't know if I am right with my prediction. As I said, it's just what I am assuming at the moment based on what I saw only a few times in my own and other peoples grows. What he^^^ said is good advice, check your cultures and try to use a different genetic line if possible and go back to spores and start new cultures.


Edited by Baba Yaga (10/23/22 06:51 PM)


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InvisibleBaba Yaga
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: ruawakeyet]
    #28013070 - 10/23/22 06:49 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Quote:

ruawakeyet said:
I picked up 2 tubs of field-aged, grass-fed cow pies today! The 5 gallon bucket is only there for size reference. I will be comparing cow / horse / and a 50/50 mix of cow and horse, all combined with other regular bulk ingredients.

I'm really hoping I like the cow pies better, because it's much easier to find grass-fed cow poop than it is to find grass-fed horse poop. All the horse poop that I've found has a lot of grain in it, and much of it is undigested. What I picked up today looks grain free from what I can see. I feel more confident using it for my pasteurized bulk, but I'm reserving judgment until I can see some results.







We have heaps of cows around here but I made the mooooove to even try cow manure. Would like to hear if the prep is any easier such as breaking it down and what the texture is like.


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OfflineRusty2096
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Fantastic Mr. Fox]
    #28013074 - 10/23/22 06:51 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

And I'd like to know about the taste :confused2:


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Invisibleruawakeyet
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Rusty2096] * 2
    #28013109 - 10/23/22 07:11 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Baba Yaga said:We have heaps of cows around here but I made the mooooove to even try cow manure. Would like to hear if the prep is any easier such as breaking it down and what the texture is like.




I will definitely report back. With h-poo, I usually wet it a little with warm water, then I let that set for a few minutes. It softens it up a lot and makes breaking it down a cinch. I'm going to start there with the cow pies. Now that I'm thinking about it, I'm going to add a little bit of dish soap to the water as well.


Quote:

Rusty2096 said:
And I'd like to know about the taste :confused2:




:laugh2: The wind did blow a tiny piece in my mouth today. The soup of the day is: dirt.


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Offlinethe man
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Adas]
    #28013401 - 10/23/22 10:40 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Adas said:
Quote:

the man said:
also still very interested if anyone experimented with fruiting temps of bisporus as assume it handles lower temps much better.




We've literally discussed it like 6 posts back. :rofl:




just outdoors u guys made note of it but curious about for indoor cultivation and if anyone has tried without heat and the normal 21C ~ 70F room temp . I know oct here it snows and dont know temps of your location in oct other than prob low 20s C? as could be the sclerotia fruiting out vs actually growing if that makes sense.


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: the man] * 3
    #28013786 - 10/24/22 09:25 AM (1 year, 3 months ago)

I think mine fruited at daytime temps around 15C or so. It will definitely work indoor as well.


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OfflinePanMax
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Baba Yaga] * 4
    #28014067 - 10/24/22 01:01 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)



So as time goes on, I think you are absolutely correct. Which is a real shame because this would have been an amazing harvest.

So what do you think went wrong. I’ll tell you some things I have thought about in hindsight.

1. I never wiped the shelving down with bleach or alcohol. As the mist comes in from the top, it wets the upper shelves and they ultimately drip in to these pans.

2. I have played around with the fan and humidity settings a LOT. At one point I had the tan bringing down the humidity back to 65%. And while the fun runs at a very low speed, and not directly on to the trays, I wonder if it had an effect. The tan does have a HEPA filter on the IBLE side, but the mist does not.

I’m open to thoughts and suggestions. I have 2 more trays ready to fruit, but I’m not anxious to repeat the same mistakes.


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InvisibleBaba Yaga
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: PanMax] * 2
    #28014114 - 10/24/22 01:32 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Quote:

PanMax said:




So as time goes on, I think you are absolutely correct. Which is a real shame because this would have been an amazing harvest.

So what do you think went wrong. I’ll tell you some things I have thought about in hindsight.

1. I never wiped the shelving down with bleach or alcohol. As the mist comes in from the top, it wets the upper shelves and they ultimately drip in to these pans.

2. I have played around with the fan and humidity settings a LOT. At one point I had the tan bringing down the humidity back to 65%. And while the fun runs at a very low speed, and not directly on to the trays, I wonder if it had an effect. The tan does have a HEPA filter on the IBLE side, but the mist does not.

I’m open to thoughts and suggestions. I have 2 more trays ready to fruit, but I’m not anxious to repeat the same mistakes.








As mentioned before my theory is contamination, most likely coming from your grain or insufficient pasteurization.

Regarding #1, a bit of condensation dripping onto your fully colonized tray shouldn't be a problem if your shelving is clean and by clean I mean nothing obviously growing on it.

I can't tell you how to set up your tent cause I don't have one but I see some of your caps looking dry and start cracking. This is something I would not expect to see in a tent.


Edited by Baba Yaga (10/25/22 07:15 PM)


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Invisibleruawakeyet
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: ruawakeyet]
    #28014120 - 10/24/22 01:37 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

PanMax, I don't remember, are you using a fogger? If so, I would crank it up some and see if it helps the fruits. At least before pulling them.


Quote:

ruawakeyet said:I don't have any definite answers other than it seems pan spores have a limited shelf life. Sometimes they might just be dead by the time we get them on agar. I'm going to experiment a little tonight since I have 3 germ plates to play with. I'm going to warm one of them up and let it stay warm overnight in the dehydrator. I'm going to try around 90 degrees F, I'll give an update with any results.




I wanted to follow up with my testing: First off, no results yet. I did place the first germ plate in incubation at 90 degrees F for a little over 12 hours, then returned it to room temperature. (70 to 75 F)

I then took a more critical look at my theoretical experiment. I am attempting to simulate the conditions inside a cow. A mature cow's internal body temperature is 101.5 F. It can take anywhere from 1 to 3 days for food to be passed by a mature cow, depending on what it eats.

Starting yesterday, I placed the 2nd germ plate into incubation at 101 degrees F, and will hold it there for 48 hours. (Splitting the difference between 1 to 3 days.) Once that time has passed, I will return the plate to room temperature.

I will keep the 3rd germ plate at room temperature as the control.

My theory is that older spores MAY need special treatment in order to germinate. I know that plant seeds are NOT the same as fungal spores. Some plant seeds require cold-stratification in order to germinate. I am looking for a similar but opposite approach to hopefully germinate stubborn pan spores. I think it might be possible that with enough time, they dry to a point that only being consumed by a ruminant animal will rehydrate them, and/or breakdown the shell of the spores, allowing germination.

It's also entirely possible that my spores are just plain dead and will never germinate. I will report back the results regardless of the outcome.

(Please do not read this as me saying that ALL germ plates should be incubated at 101 degrees F. Most of the time, they germinate just fine at room temperature. My plates in question were swabbed 10 days ago and have zero signs of life. This is my hail mary pass attempt.)


Edited by ruawakeyet (10/24/22 01:39 PM)


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: ruawakeyet] * 3
    #28014142 - 10/24/22 02:02 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Unfortunately, dryness is not the issue with old spores. Once they're toast they're toast. And even if they germinated somehow, the resulting myc is of low quality.


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Adas]
    #28014154 - 10/24/22 02:19 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

That's honestly what I figured. Do you know if anyone has tried a similar experiment? I doubt I'm the first to try some off-the-wall idea like this. I remember reading about pouring warm agar over stubborn spores, which led me to this attempt.

I finally have bisporus spores, and I'm excited as can be to get them going. I think I'll go ahead and make up some fresh plates today and get them swabbed tomorrow. I was going to wait a little longer before writing off the Alabama, but it's probably a better bet to just get them going now.

Thanks Adas!


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: ruawakeyet] * 3
    #28014168 - 10/24/22 02:25 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

People have tried various things. But personally, if I have old spores I'd rather throw them than waste any of my time on them. Experience proves it's not worth it.


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Adas] * 1
    #28014175 - 10/24/22 02:28 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Adas said:
People have tried various things. But personally, if I have old spores I'd rather throw them than waste any of my time on them. Experience proves it's not worth it.




what do you considere "old" if I may ask?


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Shrimps] * 4
    #28014178 - 10/24/22 02:29 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Anything which fails to germinate within a week-ish.


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Shrimps]
    #28014194 - 10/24/22 02:35 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Shrimps said:what do you considere "old" if I may ask?




I received my Alabama print around the same time as my Peace River and PHV, which was around 1 1/2 years ago. Of course, I don't know when they were printed, as there are no dates on them. My peace river print is viable, but I haven't found any fast growth from them yet.

My plan was to run them all this summer before they got any older, but wasn't able to due to work.

Edit: I tried the Alabama shortly after I got it, but I never did get any growth I liked. I now wonder if that print was already too old when I got it. (It was a freebie anyway, I have no issues with who I got it from.)


Edited by ruawakeyet (10/24/22 02:38 PM)


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OfflinePanMax
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Baba Yaga]
    #28014196 - 10/24/22 02:37 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Baba Yaga said:
As mentioned before my theory is contamination, most likely coming from your grain or insufficient pasteurization.

Regarding #1, a bit of condensation dripping onto your fully colonized tray shouldn't be a problem if your shelving is clean and by clean I mean nothing obviously growing on it.

I can't tell you how to set up your tent cause I don't have one but I see some of your caps looking dry and start cracking. This is something I would not expect to see in a tent.




Admittedly, this β€œfirst batch” was both grain AND sub from a vendor. I hadn’t started making my own. The second batch getting ready to go in to fruiting is vendor grain and my sub. And the third batch that I just put to sub for his weekend is all my own.

1) So IF, this batch is bad, should I NOT put the next batch in the same tent?

2) should I not harvest any of the fruits from the first batch? How much longer should I wait and what should I do with them?

Thanks, BY!


--------------------
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