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Hindsight
Mad Scientist


Registered: 01/24/21
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: PanMax] 5
#27995336 - 10/12/22 02:08 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Yes and yes. You can use an impulse sealer to do it, or the sealer function on a vacuum bag setup. Sometimes the seal will get blown open if you bring your PC to temp too quickly.
For pasteurization, you can just use ziploc bags. No need for filter bags. I have used gallon size and 2.5 gallon size. Works great. You can just poke a digital kitchen thermometer probe into the bag by piercing it right through the plastic and then push it to the center of the substrate. After you are done pasteurizing, just pull it out and put a piece of packing tape over the hole. There really isn't any risk of contamination from that hole for a few minutes, especially since your sub will be at 160F at that point in time, so it isn't like sterile procedures.
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PanMax
FNG

Registered: 09/14/22
Posts: 53
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Hindsight]
#27995452 - 10/12/22 03:01 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Oh, and I have seen this question answered both ways, when you talk about 1:1:1 sub ratio, is that by volume or weight?
Thank you!
-------------------- Forgive me, Iβm just learning
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Baba Yaga
β₯ coir grower

Registered: 09/13/20
Posts: 3,958
Loc: Hyperspace Chicken Coop
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: PanMax] 2
#27995512 - 10/12/22 03:38 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Substrate ratios are usually by volume. It's easier to work with, also the level of hydration will have quite a big influence on the weight. Having said this, its all good if you stay in the ballpark, it doesn't have to be super accurate and since different brands and locally sourced materials have slightly different properties there will always be a degree of variation even if you measure it out precisely. After a while and with some experience you can fine tune the mix to suit your needs.
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Scotay
The Mad Mush Guy

Registered: 05/14/22
Posts: 228
Loc: United States
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Baba Yaga]
#27996010 - 10/12/22 08:24 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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I've been using the bucket tek for pasteurizing. Seems to be good. I've yet to get a harvest of the pans but it's definitely different than cubes. Happy hump day friends and neighbors!! πβοΈ
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PanMax
FNG

Registered: 09/14/22
Posts: 53
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Scotay]
#27996566 - 10/13/22 09:02 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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How do you measure coir by volume? Stupid question, I'm sure, but if it comes in a brick, do you add water to it first and THEN measure by volume??
Thank you!
-------------------- Forgive me, Iβm just learning
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SirPsycho
Purple Belt in Google-Fu



Registered: 01/01/20
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: PanMax] 2
#27996569 - 10/13/22 09:04 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
PanMax said: How do you measure coir by volume? Stupid question, I'm sure, but if it comes in a brick, do you add water to it first and THEN measure by volume??
Thank you!
Yes, exactly like that. It's hydrated volume for both spawn and sub
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Hindsight
Mad Scientist


Registered: 01/24/21
Posts: 2,706
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: SirPsycho] 3
#27996586 - 10/13/22 09:19 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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75g dry coir by weight = 1qt wet coir by volume, approximately. 3-5g of water per 1g coir depending on coir brand gets you to field capacity. I always start with 3g and add more as needed to get to field cap.
So lets say I'm doing shoeboxes and using a 1:2 spawn ratio, and I have 6qts of spawn ready, that means I need 12qts of coir. 12 * 75 = 900g of dry coir, to which I would add 900 * 3 = 2700g of hot water (gram and ml are same for water). Let soak and expand and I should end up with 12qts of hydrated coir. I can add more coir or add verm if it happens to be too wet, or add more water if too dry. Adjust formulas as you like if you want a blend of coir and verm.
This is all more applicable for cubes though, unless you are one of the guys growing pans on coir. I've grown them on coir+manure but prefer straw/manure/verm.
For pans I run 1:1:1 straw (or shredded hemp), verm, and dried manure. I run the manure through an old dedicated food processor to get it finely shredded. 75g of dry shredded straw is about 1qt volume. I just use a quart jar to scoop/measure the verm and the shredded manure as well. I like to boil my shredded straw and strain it before mixing with the other ingredients and pasteurizing the mixture. I do this because straw needs a lot of time and heat to absorb the maximum amount of moisture possible and if you don't boil it, you will end up way below field capacity after pasteurization (even though you were at field capacity before pasteurization).
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ruawakeyet


Registered: 05/03/21
Posts: 1,862
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: SirPsycho] 2
#27996637 - 10/13/22 10:10 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Keep asking questions PanMax! I need these answers coming in because I'm still learning a lot from these guys as well! I grew my first cubes over 20 years ago, but I'm still such a noob.
I never accounted for hydrated bulk volume, only dry volume, so my ratios were probably a little off. I too like to weigh dry ingredients as a starting point, I just skipped over the notion that the volume can change some once hydrated. Since Hindsight already provided the math, I guess I will check it for my own due diligence once I get closer to that point.
I haven't yet decided what I'm going to use for bulk, either I'll stay with the H Poo / Straw / Verm, or try H Poo / Coir. I'm still building a new SAB before I can even swab some plates, so I have plenty of time to decide. If I end up staying with straw / manure / verm, I'm definitely stealing Hindsight's straw processing guide. I always had the same problem but didn't know how to fix it.
Admins and/or moderators, I don't know who is responsible for knighting the new TCs, but I am nominating Hindsight right here, right now. You know who I see replying the most with solid information in a timely fashion? Hindsight. I value everyone's replies and help, but Hindsight seems to go the extra distance to explain things, and proofreads what is written so that it makes sense. I really value his write-ups, and I think he belongs in the ranks of other TCs.
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Rad Aghast



Registered: 12/07/18
Posts: 133
Loc: Minnesota
Last seen: 4 months, 29 days
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: ruawakeyet] 1
#27996790 - 10/13/22 12:11 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Anyone here doing their poo subs sous vide? I was looking into the latest pasteurization teks and wondering if folks are using sous vide for Pan subs. Thx in advance.
Rad
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Guerrilla
Bumbaclart


Registered: 01/30/21
Posts: 3,170
Loc: United Kingdom
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Rad Aghast] 2
#27996810 - 10/13/22 12:38 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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At the bottom of the page there is a text box to search this thread. Just search sous vide and read the different posts.
-------------------- Being pissed on does not make you a real man.
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Rad Aghast



Registered: 12/07/18
Posts: 133
Loc: Minnesota
Last seen: 4 months, 29 days
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Guerrilla] 2
#27996834 - 10/13/22 01:06 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Holy shit that's handy. Never seen that field down there.
thx 
RA
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PanMax
FNG

Registered: 09/14/22
Posts: 53
Last seen: 8 days, 19 hours
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Hindsight]
#27997075 - 10/13/22 03:56 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Hindsight said: 75g dry coir by weight = 1qt wet coir by volume, approximately. 3-5g of water per 1g coir depending on coir brand gets you to field capacity. I always start with 3g and add more as needed to get to field cap.
So lets say I'm doing shoeboxes and using a 1:2 spawn ratio, and I have 6qts of spawn ready, that means I need 12qts of coir. 12 * 75 = 900g of dry coir, to which I would add 900 * 3 = 2700g of hot water (gram and ml are same for water). Let soak and expand and I should end up with 12qts of hydrated coir. I can add more coir or add verm if it happens to be too wet, or add more water if too dry. Adjust formulas as you like if you want a blend of coir and verm.
This is all more applicable for cubes though, unless you are one of the guys growing pans on coir. I've grown them on coir+manure but prefer straw/manure/verm.
For pans I run 1:1:1 straw (or shredded hemp), verm, and dried manure. I run the manure through an old dedicated food processor to get it finely shredded. 75g of dry shredded straw is about 1qt volume. I just use a quart jar to scoop/measure the verm and the shredded manure as well. I like to boil my shredded straw and strain it before mixing with the other ingredients and pasteurizing the mixture. I do this because straw needs a lot of time and heat to absorb the maximum amount of moisture possible and if you don't boil it, you will end up way below field capacity after pasteurization (even though you were at field capacity before pasteurization).
So I have coir in 250g bricks. I put 2 of them in a tub and added 1500ml of water to start. There were still some dry spots, so I added another 500. Still some dry spots, so I added one last addition of 500. Seemed to come out perfectly. Hydrated, not wet.
I started to mix up my sub, and have seen positive comments on both coir AND straw. So, I went 1 part hpoo, 1 part Vermiculite, 1/2 part straw, and 1/2 part coir. I then filled one of my trays and then placed that amount in a bag and weighed it (pre-field capacity) It came out to 1lb 10oz. I then brought it up to field capacity and it was 2lb 10oz.
I put that in to my sous vide. It took 1.5 hours for the center to get up to 160+. So for the future, I will know I can throw it in for 3.5 hours for a good pasturization.
Question: Can I "pre-mix" my sub mixture and just leave it in a tub until I am ready to use it? (Not at field capacity yet)
Thanks again for all the help!
-------------------- Forgive me, Iβm just learning
Edited by PanMax (10/13/22 04:29 PM)
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ruawakeyet


Registered: 05/03/21
Posts: 1,862
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: PanMax]
#27997344 - 10/13/22 06:46 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
PanMax said: Question: Can I "pre-mix" my sub mixture and just leave it in a tub until I am ready to use it? (Not at field capacity yet)
I don't see any reason you couldn't, but I try not to get ahead of myself before observing my results on experiments. Your substrate mix sounds good, and I'm excited to see your results. If you go ahead and mix everything up now, what happens if that mix doesn't work well for whatever reason? (And I'm NOT saying your plan won't work, I don't see anything that sounds too questionable at all. I'm just saying 'What if?'.)
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PanMax
FNG

Registered: 09/14/22
Posts: 53
Last seen: 8 days, 19 hours
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: ruawakeyet] 1
#27997351 - 10/13/22 06:50 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
ruawakeyet said:
Quote:
PanMax said: Question: Can I "pre-mix" my sub mixture and just leave it in a tub until I am ready to use it? (Not at field capacity yet)
I don't see any reason you couldn't, but I try not to get ahead of myself before observing my results on experiments. Your substrate mix sounds good, and I'm excited to see your results. If you go ahead and mix everything up now, what happens if that mix doesn't work well for whatever reason? (And I'm NOT saying your plan won't work, I don't see anything that sounds too questionable at all. I'm just saying 'What if?'.)
I didnβt mix up a lot. I would just chuck it. But given it matches the overall suggested mixture, I donβt see why it wouldnβt work???
-------------------- Forgive me, Iβm just learning
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HILLBILLY OUTLAW
Above And Beyond!



Registered: 04/21/22
Posts: 2,860
Loc: Luckenbach Texas
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I would say it wouldnβt be an issue. I pre make my subs to field capacity and just use it as needed. Usually do 4-5 buckets worth at a time and it hold just fine. Iβve let it set for several weeks before using but Iβve read other have let it go much much longer.
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ruawakeyet


Registered: 05/03/21
Posts: 1,862
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: PanMax]
#27997375 - 10/13/22 07:06 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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I guess I'm such a procrastinator that I never do anything in advance like that. I should stop that bad habit, so I support your notion to mix early.
I suppose it could also be more efficient to mix as much as possible and have it stored and ready to go. Kind of like meal prepping, which I still have not done.
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Rusty2096
rah rah raw in Lady gaga



Registered: 08/23/22
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: ruawakeyet] 3
#27997381 - 10/13/22 07:08 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
ruawakeyet said: I guess I'm such a procrastinator that I never do anything in advance like that. I should stop that bad habit, so I support your notion to mix early.
I suppose it could also be more efficient to mix as much as possible and have it stored and ready to go. Kind of like meal prepping, which I still have not done.
I suggest that your next intent when tripping be : show me why I procrastinate and how to improve about it
-------------------- Currently looking for nothing. You guys who sent me stuff are straight up awesome!. We don't own things - things own us. Semi-solid liquid culture (SSLC)
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Lionheart1212
Stranger
Registered: 10/01/22
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Rusty2096]
#27997399 - 10/13/22 07:16 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Growing some Pan Bis. Any tips? Just knocked up some Millet today from LC. have a martha style tent set up with humid and fan on timers.
Edited by Lionheart1212 (10/13/22 07:17 PM)
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Sillypj
Temporal Being

Registered: 09/19/22
Posts: 29
Last seen: 5 months, 22 days
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Hoping for a bit of advice.. Day 9 in fruiting chamber. Pan Estero Clone (Agar to Grain) Millet/Rye 60/40 Straw/Composted Horse Manure 50/50 Peat Verm 1/8" Layer 12 day spawn run, nice clean almond smell (not my first time so I know the smell) JCM Chamber (twin four port bubblers, heated water at 80deg constant) 12/12 light cycle When do I pull the plug? This is my first time running this chamber, how many days should I give it before I can give up?
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ruawakeyet


Registered: 05/03/21
Posts: 1,862
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Rusty2096]
#27997422 - 10/13/22 07:26 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Rusty, you're right! That will be my intent. I've actually been thinking about my next intention and hadn't come up with it yet.
That time is coming soon! I'm going solo camping in the next week or two...
Lionheart, welcome! Some users have posted some smashing successes with bisporus lately, so my only suggestion is to make sure you're following what they've done.
Silly, welcome! Describe what you've been seeing on the casing surface for the past several days. I'm wondering if it could stand a bit more moisture? I'm not experienced with that style of chamber, so I'll let others chime in. I just wanted to welcome both.
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