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Invisibleruawakeyet
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Hindsight]
    #27991774 - 10/10/22 11:18 AM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Wow Hindsight, that's impressive! How long has that jar been colonized?


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OfflineHindsight
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Rusty2096] * 1
    #27991799 - 10/10/22 11:30 AM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Rusty2096 said:
Mushrooms don't have roots :shrug:




Just like mushrooms don't have "dicks"
:douchewink:

@ghiajake it is possible but pans are known to occasionally make little stones and one indicator is, just like with stone producers like Tamps and Mexicana etc, the stones will have rhizomorphic threads of mycelium radiating outward from the stone in a branching root-like pattern.

@ruawakeyet this jar is 6 weeks old. About ready to put it in the fruiting tent.


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Invisibleruawakeyet
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Hindsight] * 1
    #27991819 - 10/10/22 11:39 AM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Hindsight said:
@ruawakeyet this jar is 6 weeks old. About ready to put it in the fruiting tent.




I'm really looking forward to seeing your results!


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OfflineYoshiTrainer
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: ruawakeyet] * 12
    #27992186 - 10/10/22 03:01 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Pan cyan 'Hunter Valley' from Australia.





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Offlineghiajake
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Hindsight] * 1
    #27992248 - 10/10/22 03:32 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Hindsight said:
@ghiajake it is possible but pans are known to occasionally make little stones and one indicator is, just like with stone producers like Tamps and Mexicana etc, the stones will have rhizomorphic threads of mycelium radiating outward from the stone in a branching root-like pattern.





I mean, it makes sense... I'd assume the myc requires nutrient "super-highways" to form the dense sclerotia. I do remember my stone cultures from back in the day having similar ropes, as well as Morchella culture that did it as well.

Cool. One of the reasons I started following this group after all these years. Need something new to learn.

:raisemyglass:


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: YoshiTrainer] * 2
    #27992256 - 10/10/22 03:36 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Some biggies in there! :eek:


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Invisibleruawakeyet
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: YoshiTrainer] * 2
    #27992318 - 10/10/22 04:27 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Yoshi, nicely done!!! Those are beautiful!


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Adas]
    #27992512 - 10/10/22 06:13 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Adas said:
For the next Bisporus flush I'm putting them into the tub with large holes. Curious to see if that's too much FAE (or, more specifically, too much drying out) and if I can get them more massive this way.




get ready to get demoted as a TC when my 2 year old daughter puts out
a pan bunell baba yaga dubtub canopy

just saying


--------------------
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OfflineYoshiTrainer
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: smalltalk_canceled] * 1
    #27992557 - 10/10/22 06:31 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Thank you guys!


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Offlineghiajake
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: YoshiTrainer] * 4
    #27992745 - 10/10/22 08:06 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Alright, so since I'm going to be a member of this group now I guess I have to post a pic of my pathetic micro-penis Pan cyan "Estero" fruit. This is the only Pan fruit I've fruited to date. I'm in the process of cleaning the culture because it had a bacterial contam that must've hitch a ride on the print. I was able to clone this fruit, so we'll see over the next few months how the culture works out. Getting some "Goliath" culture from a local myco-buddy this month too, so I'll at least have a backup.



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Invisibleruawakeyet
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: ghiajake] * 1
    #27992753 - 10/10/22 08:10 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Looks like you're on the road to Pan Land!


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InvisibleBaba Yaga
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: ghiajake] * 4
    #27992871 - 10/10/22 09:05 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Quote:

ghiajake said:
Alright, so since I'm going to be a member of this group now I guess I have to post a pic of my pathetic micro-penis Pan cyan "Estero" fruit. This is the only Pan fruit I've fruited to date. I'm in the process of cleaning the culture because it had a bacterial contam that must've hitch a ride on the print. I was able to clone this fruit, so we'll see over the next few months how the culture works out. Getting some "Goliath" culture from a local myco-buddy this month too, so I'll at least have a backup.







The main thing you have to get used to is keeping things quite wet at some point. That and a healthy culture is the main thing IMHO.

I still keep forgetting this sometime. Just now I have totally hosed down this little bottle grow I had sitting on my desk for the last 6 weeks without doing anything. I picked it up a couple of days ago and thought if might be a bit light so I totally drenched it. The water seeped through and filled the container half way from the bottom up. The next day I found a few pins. Sometimes its that simple.



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OfflineHindsight
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: ghiajake]
    #27992942 - 10/10/22 10:18 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Quote:

ghiajake said:
Alright, so since I'm going to be a member of this group now I guess I have to post a pic of my pathetic micro-penis Pan cyan "Estero" fruit. This is the only Pan fruit I've fruited to date. I'm in the process of cleaning the culture because it had a bacterial contam that must've hitch a ride on the print. I was able to clone this fruit, so we'll see over the next few months how the culture works out. Getting some "Goliath" culture from a local myco-buddy this month too, so I'll at least have a backup.






Congrats on the fruit! A fruit is a fruit and it’s a step on the path to a canopy. If you need any additional pan prints just let me know. I can send you what I have.


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Offlineghiajake
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Hindsight] * 1
    #27992969 - 10/10/22 10:40 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Hindsight said:
Congrats on the fruit! A fruit is a fruit and it’s a step on the path to a canopy. If you need any additional pan prints just let me know. I can send you what I have.




That'd be awesome, thanks. Let me cut my teeth with what I've got and I'll hit you up after I've got a couple grows under my belt.


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OfflinePanMax
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: ghiajake] * 5
    #27992991 - 10/10/22 10:59 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Hey gang.  Total FNG here.  First post.

I have read the last 400 pages of this thread.  I has taken me over a week to do it, and have found myself down several rabbit holes.  Watching the evolution of Pan growing has been pretty incredible.

To the guys that have just DOMINATED this thing, THANK YOU.  Baby Yaga, Hindsight, Joc Tek creator, Asura, Angam, Adas, and the many others with helpful links and input....Thank you all.

Things have changed quite a bit over a relatively short amount of time.

The one Tek that I found really different and interesting was Angam's Russian Tek.  Oddly enough, I think only one other person duplicated that Tek, and just only just recently.

Between the Asura Tek, the Joc Tek, and the Russian Tek, I am curious as to the collective groups thoughts on "most replicatable" and reliable??

And finally, what would be considered the newest, most reliable sub recipe.  50/50 coir/hpoo, or is a compost now being used.  Verm or no verm, and if so, what is the percentages best used.

Again, thank you everyone for the wealth of information and those that take the time to respond.


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Offlineghiajake
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: PanMax] * 5
    #27993005 - 10/10/22 11:20 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Quote:

PanMax said:
Hey gang.  Total FNG here.  First post.

I have read the last 400 pages of this thread.  I has taken me over a week to do it, and have found myself down several rabbit holes.  Watching the evolution of Pan growing has been pretty incredible.

To the guys that have just DOMINATED this thing, THANK YOU.  Baby Yaga, Hindsight, Joc Tek creator, Asura, Angam, Adas, and the many others with helpful links and input....Thank you all.

Things have changed quite a bit over a relatively short amount of time.

The one Tek that I found really different and interesting was Angam's Russian Tek.  Oddly enough, I think only one other person duplicated that Tek, and just only just recently.

Between the Asura Tek, the Joc Tek, and the Russian Tek, I am curious as to the collective groups thoughts on "most replicatable" and reliable??

And finally, what would be considered the newest, most reliable sub recipe.  50/50 coir/hpoo, or is a compost now being used.  Verm or no verm, and if so, what is the percentages best used.

Again, thank you everyone for the wealth of information and those that take the time to respond.




Proper thread-stalking, and a great question? Hell of first post bro!
:raisemyglass:

:popcorn:


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Invisibleruawakeyet
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: PanMax] * 3
    #27993180 - 10/11/22 05:36 AM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Quote:

PanMax said:Between the Asura Tek, the Joc Tek, and the Russian Tek, I am curious as to the collective groups thoughts on "most replicatable" and reliable??

And finally, what would be considered the newest, most reliable sub recipe.  50/50 coir/hpoo, or is a compost now being used.  Verm or no verm, and if so, what is the percentages best used.




Welcome PanMax!

I'm stoked to see another user that isn't afraid of digging in and doing some reading!

IMO, JOC Tek is the closest to the standard method of growing. Sterile grain, spawned to pasteurized bulk, and laid to trays. His rapid cycling of fog, then evaporation in the fruiting chamber/tent/room is the real game changer, and can be applied to most fruiting setups with enough creativity.

Asura's Tek, (the last time I looked at it anyway), uses sterilized bulk instead of pasteurized bulk, and that is a method I'm not equipped to use. I don't have a flowhood, and dealing with bags of bulk in a SAB is not my idea of fun. Pasteurized bulk is just so much easier for me to handle.

Angam's method is interesting, because he often skips the grain IIRC. Being able to go from LC to bulk substrate is something I'm not sure too many of us here could get away with. (I haven't tried, so I really don't know.)

As far as substrate recipes are concerned, the only one I've used has been straw and horse poo and verm. I'm planning on trying horse poo and coir next time, but for me that is untested. I've seen enough successes from just manure and coir to expect decent results...

I don't think the vermiculite is needed, nor does it hurt the grow. I've realized I don't like how it sticks to everything, and would like to omit it for no other reason.

I think the reason people have been pioneering the way with compost is for all the other members that either can not source manure, or don't want to work with it. If it's available to you, and you don't mind handling it nor a little smell when it's time to process it, it's the ideal base ingredient IMO.

As far as ratios go, avoid extreme imbalances, and your bulk should have a somewhat light, airy texture to it. You don't want it becoming compacted or dense, you want to keep the substrate aerobic.

Hope this helps, I'm looking forward to seeing your grows!


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OfflineHindsight
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: ruawakeyet] * 7
    #27993231 - 10/11/22 07:16 AM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Kudos for doing your research first PanMax!

Angam is awesome and I would love to try his no-grain method but I haven't seen anyone else pull it off. It is on my to-do list though. Could save a lot of time (for grain colonization) if it is repeatable.

Asura doesn't use the method in his tech anymore. He hasn't been posting here that often in the past couple of years so if you search this thread for his name, one of the most recent 5-10 posts should be a response to myself or someone else asking him questions about his technique and he replied that he hasn't been injecting LC into sterilized sub bags with grains in some time. IIRC he just uses the normal method now which is grain jars to substrate. Actually that response might be in his tek thread and not here.....

Recipe - Many things work. The good old stand-by of straw/verm/manure works the best from all my tests. I have subbed shredded hemp animal bedding (available online) for straw and it works well (VL's suggestion) if you can't find shredded straw or hate dealing with shredding unshredded straw. Personally, I find a 1:1:1 ratio of ingredients to work great and be easiest to prepare. Verm just adds fluff and water and that really helps in these subs because straw and manure don't hold much water. You could sub verm for coir if you wanted, or even just use straw/manure by itself but I do suggest verm.

For me, the most repeatable method has been agar to grain to pasteurized substrate and then fruit in a JOC style tent. But I haven't tried the bubbler tub method (very easy, space-saving, and low budget), I haven't fruited pans on cakes just yet (I think MacMerdin pioneered "pan cakes"), and I haven't tried monotub grows like Baba does. Right now I have ~30 cakes of various cultures and recipes growing in order to see if I can put a new touch on MacMerdin's pioneering, to see if I can make it even more simple and reliable for new growers, and also to save time when trying to isolate genetics.

As of now, using only my personal experiences for things I have actually tried, I would suggest:
- Agar to grain jars to a substrate of 1:1:1 chopped straw, verm, aged manure that has been pasteurized 2 hours at 160-165F core, and is properly hydrated (when mixing sub prior to pasteurization, squeezing produces just 1-3 drops - I find pans to be more sensitive to too much moisture).
- Stick with 1 jar of spawn to 1 6qt shoebox to prevent contams for ruining multiple jars. Spawn with a 1:2 to 1:3 ratio (whatever gets you to 3-4" depth), and ensure you use a top layer of sub to cover your grains, then put the lid on and allow to colonize fully. I do not press down and compact it - just very lightly, enough to make the top somewhat flat. Fluffy is good for pans.
- Once colonized, case with 50/50 peat and fine grain verm, plus 1 Tablespoon of hydrated lime per quart of mixed casing. I mix the peat and verm and lime dry, then add water to field capacity and pasteurize it the same as my substrate. I drilled as many 1/4" holes in a quart size widemouth mason jar lid as would fit, fill the jar 2/3 full with casing and shake it on my trays like a salt shaker. I apply it so that I have 95% coverage of mycelium - basically as thin as possible while still being able to see just a few little spots of mycelium poking through. Casing layer is like 1/8"" thick.
- Once cased, remove the lid and put them in a fruiting tent using the same cycle fogging that JOC details. I followed his method and feel my successful canopies are mostly a result of the tent and the right cycles and temps. Fine tuning it is the key and I could write up pages on that, but the highest level, you want to get it dialed in to where your fog replaces exactly the amount of moisture you lost during evaporation in your rest cycle. That's it. I fruit at 78F. If you can't do a tent due to money or space, go for a bubble chamber. I have seen so many great grows with these but haven't tried them myself so can't personally recommend.

Proper pasteurization has had the biggest impact on consistency of success on my grow. I use a steam pasteurizer I built (instructions in my signature) but you can use the stovetop method as well.


Here is a pic today of all the various jar grows I'm experimenting with and you can see my tent on the right during a fog cycle:



And back to the stone topic from the other day... that cake finished colonizing so I opened it up to fruit it and took a closer look at the suspected stone. 100% it is a stone. Looks and feels just like a tamp/mexicana stone.


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Invisibleruawakeyet
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Hindsight]
    #27993249 - 10/11/22 07:37 AM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Hindsight, you're the man! I was hoping you would chime in since I'm not as up to date here as you are. You provided more details that I forgot to include, such as spawn to bulk ratio. Did you ever use 1:4? If so, would you ever go back to 1:4 after using 1:2 to 1:3? That's one more variable that I wanted to experiment with but never have.

I wanted to read your steam pasteurizer instructions, but they aren't linked in your signature. I'll search and find it, just wanted to let you know. After I read that, I may or may not have another question for you, but that can wait.


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OfflineHindsight
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: ruawakeyet] * 2
    #27993263 - 10/11/22 07:52 AM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Here you go: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27858707

As for ratio, the lower the ratio, the better. Helps the mycelium beat out contamination and makes your grow faster. 1:4 works ok but contamination risk is higher. Some have said in the past that more grain = more risk of contamination but I have found the opposite to be true and Baba has said the same thing in his experience. I don't want to dump more than 1 jar in a 6qt just from a time/cost standpoint, and I find 1:2 - 1:3 gives me the ideal depth and keeps things simple. I don't measure the sub - just eyeball it.


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