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Hindsight
Mad Scientist


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: ruawakeyet] 4
#27976234 - 10/01/22 06:56 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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There hasn't been any discussion since the one you referenced about substrate depth, and definitely no locked-down consensus. I noticed JOC's subs looked deep in one of his pics and I asked him about it. He confirmed it is 3.5" so I adopted that as well. I haven't done any side by side tests to confirm that it is better though, and I am not very scientific about depth or even sub/spawn ratio, so I usually end up between 2 and 3.5" depth. Anywhere in that range seems to work really well. Personally I think the old wisdom of pan subs needing to be thin has been dispelled. I'm sure you could go 5" and have a killer grow too.
Not pans but here is Mexicana at about a 2" depth:

Pans at a 3" depth:

Tamps at a nearly 4" depth:

I haven't done verm+manure only but I think it would work. I have done coir+manure and that worked. I still think straw+manure+verm or hemp+manure+verm are the best and most consistent. Check out the steam pasteurizer in my journal - it has dramatically increased my success rate against contamination. I even use it on straight coir and it improved that too.
There are some guys messing around with cold-pasteurization of straw using lime, but for the most part, I'm not seeing anyone using lime/gypsum with pan grows. I've added gypsum and never seen any difference. Only place I ever use lime is in my casing layer and I use 1 level Tbsp of hydrated lime per quart of casing mix. That amount has been the sweet spot for me in that I VERY rarely get trich in the casing layer and the mycelium won't colonize it.
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whitebelt
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Hindsight]
#27976449 - 10/01/22 10:18 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Hey there!
First post on here I guess. I made a LC of nice, uniform and fast growth (pan cyan) about 3 weeks ago. Do you think it is still usable? I heard pans need a lot of momentum, not sure wether I should put it to grain or restart. LC looks thick and healthy, is three weeks storage too long for pans? Thanks whitebelt
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ruawakeyet


Registered: 05/03/21
Posts: 1,862
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: whitebelt]
#27976478 - 10/01/22 10:53 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Thank you hindsight! That cleared up all of the questions I had. Also love seeing your grows, and I'm going to try your casing recipe. I hope it will be the happy medium with the materials I have on hand.
Welcome whitebelt! I have to ask, did you go spores > agar > LC? Or spores > LC?
I wouldn't be too worried about the three weeks in LC, as long as it's clean it can be ok. If in doubt, take a drop or two of the LC, transfer to agar, let it grow out and check for contaminants. Good luck!
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whitebelt
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: ruawakeyet]
#27976490 - 10/01/22 11:03 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Thanks for your kind words. I went spores>agar>agar>LC and just put some of it back on agar to see how it grows out. I currently have three cakes in fruiting, but the grain jars I used for them looked kind of sus, so I donβt have too high hopes for them.
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ruawakeyet


Registered: 05/03/21
Posts: 1,862
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: whitebelt]
#27976508 - 10/01/22 11:26 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Awesome, sounds you like you are definitely on the right track!
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MariaTruthSeeker
TruthSeeker


Registered: 10/21/21
Posts: 18
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Hindsight] 4
#27976522 - 10/01/22 11:40 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Hindsight said:
I haven't done verm+manure only but I think it would work. I have done coir+manure and that worked.
Coir+verm+manure works well even when sterilized. Zero contams in a 10 tray test, with nice full flushes:
 This was with the Estero cultivar. No idea if other cultivars would not fruit on this substrate.
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ruawakeyet


Registered: 05/03/21
Posts: 1,862
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Oh snap! I would say that worked well! I planned my last grow to hold 10 trays, and I NEVER ONCE got it filled up with trays due to contaminants. I had a very low contam rate in grain, a fairly low contam rate while colonizing bulk, but by the first or maybe second flush, that white bloom would pop up overnight in around half my trays. I am really good at recognizing early trich now, and can get a tray dumped outside before it sporulates, so there's that. (I don't think it was coming from the casing material, because every time the green started in the sub and came up through the casing, which was pasteurized before applying.)
Hindsight was the one that brought up the fact that there ARE (usually) some grains hidden in straw, and that could be the source of random contaminants since those grains were only pasteurized. I immediately felt he was correct because I wondered about them before when I was mixing the spawn. There were too many to pick out each and every one of them.
I have plenty of straw available, but I would rather not pick out all the wheat or oat seeds in it. I already have some seeds to pick out of the H Poo. I'll follow Hindsight and you and use a H Poo + Verm + Coir bulk.
Thank you both so much!
Edited by ruawakeyet (10/01/22 12:25 PM)
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LogicaL Chaos
Ascension Energy & Alien UFOs




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I was just going to rework some old, dry manure mix with some wet verm and sterilize it. Im glad I checked on this thread!
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Scotay
The Mad Mush Guy

Registered: 05/14/22
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: LogicaL Chaos] 1
#27977335 - 10/01/22 10:57 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Happy Saturday/Sunday! I love seeing and hearing people's ideas and thoughts and techniques! Question for anyone. Is there a thread here that has people's experience/trip reports specifically for pans? As far as substrate depth for pans I'm clueless. For cubes I kept mine between 3-4 inches. Usually multiple flushes as well. At least 3 and then it began to wane a little! Hope everyone has had a decent weekend!! πβοΈ
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kirkeng
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Scotay] 7
#27977926 - 10/02/22 11:35 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Still working on bisporus, Inching my way to that full coverage first flush shot. Transition to fall this last run so temps have dropped a good 10-15 F in my room hovering around 68-70F, definitely slowed them down a fair bit though still chugging along nicely! Seeing as conversation of depth is happening these are at around 2.5-3in deep. Wanted to take some clones from some of the bigger ones but used my last plate earlier this week, guess I know what I have to do this week before the other tubs mature. Unmodified tub as always.
Edited by kirkeng (10/02/22 11:37 AM)
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YoshiTrainer
Onion tied to belt



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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: kirkeng] 1
#27977969 - 10/02/22 12:25 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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If pans are properly dried, vacuum sealed with desiccant and in the freezer, how long would they stay potent? I've read pans loose their potency but haven't found any mention of time line. Would extracting, honey or chocolate extend that?
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Baba Yaga
β₯ coir grower

Registered: 09/13/20
Posts: 3,958
Loc: Hyperspace Chicken Coop
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: YoshiTrainer] 2
#27977988 - 10/02/22 12:39 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
kirkeng said: Still working on bisporus, Inching my way to that full coverage first flush shot. Transition to fall this last run so temps have dropped a good 10-15 F in my room hovering around 68-70F, definitely slowed them down a fair bit though still chugging along nicely! Seeing as conversation of depth is happening these are at around 2.5-3in deep. Wanted to take some clones from some of the bigger ones but used my last plate earlier this week, guess I know what I have to do this week before the other tubs mature. Unmodified tub as always.

Looking great man, have you tried leveling out your substrate and also top layer when spawning. It might help to get to a more even flush.
Quote:
YoshiTrainer said: If pans are properly dried, vacuum sealed with desiccant and in the freezer, how long would they stay potent? I've read pans loose their potency but haven't found any mention of time line. Would extracting, honey or chocolate extend that?
If you are doing all of that then I don't see a reason why they shouldn't last a couple of years+. Don't have any first hand experience yet but have a 2 year old pan jar vacuum sealed at room temp here which I will try one day. I think I heard though that some people had good results in keeping them around for a while.
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Baba Yaga
β₯ coir grower

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Posts: 3,958
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Baba Yaga] 6
#27977991 - 10/02/22 12:40 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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First Nec-D is done. Fruited@spawn & uncased, coir/compost 50/50, 1:3 ratio @ 2-2.5 inch, temps 17C-22C with a couple of nights going down to 13-14C cause I forgot to switch the heater on.
Nice coverage except next to bottom holes where the sub surface dried out during colonization. 130g wet which is a bit underwhelming but could have been in the 200s with a bit of grooming during colonization I suppose.
Edited by Baba Yaga (10/02/22 03:45 PM)
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kirkeng
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Baba Yaga] 2
#27978038 - 10/02/22 01:16 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Nec-D coming in hot! I do do a top layer at spawn, though only leveled roughly by hand, Iβve contemplated using a pastry cutter or ruler to really even it out but every time I go to spawn I get started n decide I donβt wana find them, I think Iβll actually find them now so theyβre easily available to try for next time and see if it helps.
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HILLBILLY OUTLAW
Above And Beyond!



Registered: 04/21/22
Posts: 2,860
Loc: Luckenbach Texas
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I use a grout trowel to compress and level my substrate. Works out pretty good.
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Hindsight
Mad Scientist


Registered: 01/24/21
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Baba Yaga] 2
#27978145 - 10/02/22 02:43 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
kirkeng said: Still working on bisporus, Inching my way to that full coverage first flush shot. Transition to fall this last run so temps have dropped a good 10-15 F in my room hovering around 68-70F, definitely slowed them down a fair bit though still chugging along nicely! Seeing as conversation of depth is happening these are at around 2.5-3in deep. Wanted to take some clones from some of the bigger ones but used my last plate earlier this week, guess I know what I have to do this week before the other tubs mature. Unmodified tub as always.

Solid Bispo flushes!
Quote:
Baba Yaga said: First Nec-D is done. Fruited@spawn & uncased, coir/compost 50/50, 1:3 ratio @ 2-2.5 inch, temps 17C-22C with a couple of nights going down to 13-14C cause I forgot to switch the heater on.
Nice coverage except next to bottom holes where the sub surface dried out during colonization. 130g wet which is a bit underwhelming but could have been in the 200s with a bit of grooming I suppose.

Nice NecD Flush. Can't believe that's in a mono!
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Baba Yaga
β₯ coir grower

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Hindsight] 2
#27978161 - 10/02/22 02:55 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Yep and uncased. Thanks for the print again.
How random are red spores with Nec-D? Didn't notice any in this tub.
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Baba Yaga
β₯ coir grower

Registered: 09/13/20
Posts: 3,958
Loc: Hyperspace Chicken Coop
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Baba Yaga] 4
#27978518 - 10/02/22 06:56 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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This looks like a chess board for toddlers. Just two squares and all pawns.
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Rusty2096
rah rah raw in Lady gaga



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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Baba Yaga] 1
#27978552 - 10/02/22 07:13 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Age 3+ chessboard
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ruawakeyet


Registered: 05/03/21
Posts: 1,862
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Rusty2096] 2
#27978910 - 10/03/22 12:22 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Wow to those Bisporus and Nec D flushes! Way to go! kirkeng, I'm curious what you used for bulk. Do you mind sharing?
Yoshi, I have 1 year old pans in a bag, stored at room temperature, kept with DIY moisture and oxygen absorbers. They are still just as good as they were a year ago, I literally can not detect any loss of potency. I always placed the fruits in the dehydrator at max temperature, (155 degrees F), as soon as I finished harvesting. Small fruits would be done in an hour, large fruits might take 3 hours. I haven't had any pans need more than 3 hours to get cracker dry. Shortly after they were done drying, they went straight into the bag. (They are so different than cubes. I was used to letting cubes dry overnight at least, usually closer to 24 hours. That is WAY too long for Pans, however I can't speak to how damaging that is or isn't.)
My storage does still have room for improvement though. I want to find an airtight box that will protect the delicate fruits better than a bag. After a year, about half my bag is shake. I haven't tested the shake yet, it might be bunk since it had so much more surface area exposed.
Hillbilly, I like that grout trowel, I can't wait to try it! Thanks for sharing!
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