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rockyfungus
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Hindsight]
#27604780 - 01/03/22 07:53 AM (2 years, 26 days ago) |
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I did my instant pot keep warm for typically 3-4 hours. Last time I did 8 which is way too much.
I believe without lime or gypsum it's not a "stable" pH and must shift a few days out. My peat/verm is at 7 pH without additives. Probably best to be on the basic side with the lime like you mention.
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Hindsight
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: rockyfungus]
#27604806 - 01/03/22 08:25 AM (2 years, 26 days ago) |
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I know conventional wisdom is ~2 hour pasteurization but I and many others have had a lot of success with 12 hours. It works even better if you then let it age in the bag for 5 days or so after that. But I admit I haven't done a lot of side by side tests on pasteurization time.
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moonwatcher


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Hindsight]
#27605047 - 01/03/22 12:01 PM (2 years, 26 days ago) |
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2 hours at 60-70C does kill 'bad bacteria' and competing fungi, which many people assume is the only goal of pasteurization. However, if you look into agaricus bisporus (button mushroom) cultivation (grown on compost, which is also what old pan cyan teks from 2001 call for, and also Baba Yaga and other members seem to be having good success using compost as a sub), the pasteurization process is followed by a 5-10 day long conditioning phase at 45-50 C, during which thermophilic bacteria can multiply to high numbers. Those thermophilic bacteria grow fastest at 45-60 C, at which temp they double every half-hour. So during a 12 hour 'pasteurization', they multiply by 16 million times. But in 2 hours, only 16 times.
Probably those thermophiles are what the mycelium uses as food. Which explains why manure-free subs don't fruit as well. The myc feeds on the lipid membranes of the bacteria to make its own membranes for fungal cells and panaeolus maybe isn't as good as cubes at synthesizing their own, using the nutrients in grains. Just a hypothesis, extrapolated from button mushroom cultivation.
Those thermophilic bacteria may also be responsible for fruiting initiation, by degrading pinning/primordia formation inhibitors which the mycelium manufactures (self-inhibitors). Those inhibitors can also be evaporated, as opposed to degraded, as most of them are alcohols (1-octen-3-ol for example), which explains the anecdotal high need for FAE to initiate fruiting for pans. Also explains why coir supposedly doesn't work well as a casing material - it's mostly bacteria-free, as opposed to peat which has a good bacteria population.
I've just been doing a lot of reading on this haha. Also experimenting with things like activated carbon casing, but nothing interesting to share yet.
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Hindsight
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: moonwatcher] 4
#27605054 - 01/03/22 12:05 PM (2 years, 26 days ago) |
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A few caps are starting to drop spores so it's time to harvest this tray of BVI:
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Adas
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: moonwatcher]
#27605059 - 01/03/22 12:07 PM (2 years, 26 days ago) |
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I don't think you can extrapolate Agaricus behaviour to Panaeolus, but thanks for sharing anyway, it's some interesting info for sure. In my experience casing material doesn't matter that much. I've had as much success with charcoal as without.
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moonwatcher


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Adas]
#27605073 - 01/03/22 12:13 PM (2 years, 26 days ago) |
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Interesting! I wasn't aware that anyone has tried including charcoal in the casing, all I could find was very old posts attempting charcoal for morel fruiting. And yes, you're probably correct, but seeing how there is close to 0 'official' research info on panaeolus, I somehow started reading about a.bisporus fruiting behavior, as there are many many publications including many experiments and hypothesis, and a lot of the stuff seemed to somehow click, i.e the need for peat casing, FAE and a bacterially-degraded sub. Particularly the common opinion that coir doesn't really work as a pan casing, even though it's surprisingly similar to peat in composition (cellulose, etc), so the difference seemed to be somehow bacterial. I was also fascinated by reading about the whole fruiting-inhibitor evaporation thing, even though it's widely assumed that water evaporation from the surface is what triggers fruiting (in cubes too).
Edited by moonwatcher (01/03/22 12:19 PM)
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Adas
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: moonwatcher]
#27605107 - 01/03/22 12:36 PM (2 years, 26 days ago) |
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Even Cubes aren't all consistent, so we can expect a lot of variance. For example my old PESA variety would form side-knots, but these would never turn to pins if I blocked all the light. Most varieties will pin regardless of light.
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rockyfungus
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Adas] 3
#27605137 - 01/03/22 12:58 PM (2 years, 26 days ago) |
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I just need to start sticking to my recipe book instead of going by feel. This is not baking. I just like to establish my own relationship with each fungal friend and try the available materials locally. I've had success and now I want to break shit.
My newest stupid project is ziplocks through the PC. It's ugly but we getting there. Sick of spawning from bag to tray. Been doing gourmets for a minute so I'm bag crazy.
 (semps...but let's pretend that's pans). Just top cased which is way more difficult then trays.
Pan spawn is about a week behind (wild coast)
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Adas
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: rockyfungus]
#27605151 - 01/03/22 01:07 PM (2 years, 26 days ago) |
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I've been so horny about starting Subtrops but my first print was not viable and the second one is severely delayed, haha. You can post here.
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Hindsight
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Adas]
#27605156 - 01/03/22 01:11 PM (2 years, 26 days ago) |
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Adas I made this offer in another thread a while back but not sure you saw it. I have a subtropicalis print I can send you half of assuming I get germination off of it. The last print I tried never germinated so I got another and am about 4 days and counting for it to germinate.
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rockyfungus
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Hindsight] 2
#27605183 - 01/03/22 01:33 PM (2 years, 26 days ago) |
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I got him! Haha I got a print the size of my hand and it's aggressive. Once I fruit and print I can cut it and send it ya Hindsight.
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Hindsight
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: rockyfungus]
#27605197 - 01/03/22 01:40 PM (2 years, 26 days ago) |
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Thanks Rocky, that would be greatly appreciated! I can return the favor of course.
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rockyfungus
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Hindsight] 1
#27605245 - 01/03/22 02:14 PM (2 years, 26 days ago) |
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Aren't I returning the favor though?
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Adas
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: rockyfungus] 2
#27605267 - 01/03/22 02:24 PM (2 years, 26 days ago) |
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I love this community mindset of giving back! VERY few communities like this out there! You guys are like a second family to me, seriously.
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rockyfungus
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Adas] 2
#27605271 - 01/03/22 02:28 PM (2 years, 26 days ago) |
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Sorry back to your regular scheduled Pan programing. Shout out to psilopsychin for getting me Panned!
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Adas
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: rockyfungus]
#27605273 - 01/03/22 02:31 PM (2 years, 26 days ago) |
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Psilo is an absolute fucking legend. Did you get my Bunnell FL Cyans from him?
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rockyfungus
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Adas] 2
#27605312 - 01/03/22 02:55 PM (2 years, 26 days ago) |
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I failed a few SW's cambo syringes. He hooked me up with wild coast and it was smooth sailing. Just hooked me up with Burnell's, red down under, and a SF natal.
Can't wait to give back once I fix my errors.
Time for the 2 mile walk to the mailbox for you greedy people
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rockyfungus
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: rockyfungus] 2
#27605785 - 01/03/22 06:51 PM (2 years, 26 days ago) |
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 Pan cyan wild coast swabbed and stabbed. 1 week germ
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Baba Yaga
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: rockyfungus]
#27605787 - 01/03/22 06:53 PM (2 years, 26 days ago) |
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Really nice germ plates you got there!
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bigfootscreepyuncl
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: rockyfungus]
#27605797 - 01/03/22 06:58 PM (2 years, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
rockyfungus said:
 Pan cyan wild coast swabbed and stabbed. 1 week germ
Is that a spider in the plate with the swab in it? lol super clean though, looks good!
--------------------
I 5318008 NOT a virgin!
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