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Drboomer
The lord magnificent


Registered: 09/22/19
Posts: 957
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: ruawakeyet]
#27555627 - 11/23/21 10:00 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yeah all I could find was syringes when I was looking my usual vendors had nothing. This vendor offered swabs, syringes, and prints and all but the syringes were out of stock.
The only other option was a vendor who wanted $30 for a necd print. Might go back and nab it though the price is higher than I am.
I might just make up a pan-cake and shoot the whole shot in it and have come what may.
Edited by Drboomer (11/23/21 10:02 PM)
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ruawakeyet


Registered: 05/03/21
Posts: 1,862
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Drboomer]
#27555651 - 11/23/21 10:34 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'm not saying syringes can't or won't work, just that many other growers have had extra difficulty from them. I think it has to do with the freshness of the syringe, but that's just my opinion.
I don't want to discourage anyone, I try to be encouraging most of the time. If anyone doesn't get germination, just know it's likely not your fault, and getting a print will likely make a huge difference.
DrBoomer, I like the pan-cake idea, except I would try a lot of them and use a regular amount of inoculant in each, to maximize the chances of success.
Edited by ruawakeyet (11/23/21 10:40 PM)
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Hindsight
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: ruawakeyet]
#27555993 - 11/24/21 07:19 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Never once had a syringe produce anything but bacteria on agar.
My go-to for syringes is to inoc them onto BRF cakes. I don't know anything about pan-cakes but assume they have some manure in them and if so, I would avoid the manure initially. For syringes, I use a few pint jars, and only put about 1-2" deep of BRF at the bottom of them (regular BRF recipe of brown rice flour, vermiculite and water), put the lid on and PC them 60-90 mins. Then knock each one up with a little squirt from the syringe. No need to blast them.... just a few CC's per jar is all you need. Once you see some clean mycelium growth on the top, you can go in with a scalpel and pull a little chunk off and transfer that to agar and then you are off to the races. For me, this has worked literally every time. I haven't done it with pans, but I have done it with many cubes. No reason to think it would be any different with pans.
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A.k.a
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Drboomer]
#27556038 - 11/24/21 08:09 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Drboomer said: Yeah all I could find was syringes when I was looking my usual vendors had nothing. This vendor offered swabs, syringes, and prints and all but the syringes were out of stock.
The only other option was a vendor who wanted $30 for a necd print. Might go back and nab it though the price is higher than I am.
I might just make up a pan-cake and shoot the whole shot in it and have come what may.
Pans are just finicky in general, I’m not surprised syringes don’t go well with them.
You don’t need vendors man, just throw this guy out 
I might be able to make you a necd swab if that’s one you’re after. Not sure but I think I have a print still.
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LAGM2020     
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Hindsight
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: A.k.a]
#27556126 - 11/24/21 09:25 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Followup question for everyone about the potency of those white pans I grew. The potency was quite low. I don't want to scrap this variety because it looks so nice but I don't really see the point if they are weaker than cubes. So the question is - is there anything I can do to "fix" this aspect? My understanding is no.... other than to quit growing out clones of them and instead, take a print, then grow out a handful of plates from that print and see if I get lucky enough to hit a culture that has the same color characteristics but has normal potency. Is that correct? Any other options? Have you ever grown out a clone several times and had the potency vary from tray to tray? I would suspect no, and that being the case, would try the spore approach just mentioned instead.
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Baba Yaga
♥ coir grower

Registered: 09/13/20
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Hindsight] 1
#27556138 - 11/24/21 09:41 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Crossing it with a potent clone would be a good option IMO.
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Hindsight
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Baba Yaga]
#27556156 - 11/24/21 09:51 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Good idea - had not considered that one. I will give that a shot. Time to make some very diluted spore solution.....
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Baba Yaga
♥ coir grower

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Hindsight]
#27556163 - 11/24/21 09:58 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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How about mixing grain spawn from two clones in one tray or two LCs to make spawn, they do it all the time with cubes in the "strain crossing thread".
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Adas
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Baba Yaga]
#27556170 - 11/24/21 10:04 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Hindsight, whch variety turned out weak for you? The NecD?
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Hindsight
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Baba Yaga]
#27556257 - 11/24/21 11:23 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Baba Yaga said: How about mixing grain spawn from two clones in one tray or two LCs to make spawn, they do it all the time with cubes in the "strain crossing thread".
I was under the impression that you can't truly cross varieties by allowing two different dikaryotic mycelium cultures to join together because they can't truly "join" once two monokaryotic cultures join to create a single dikaryotic culture. I thought that only way to do it was put spores in water, dilute it down quite a bit and spread it on some plates, then check any growth on the plate under a microscope for clamp connections and if you see them, you know you have a monokaryotic hyphae which is still looking to mate to another monokaryotic hyphae. The goal being to get a monokaryotic hyphae growth from each of the two strains you want to cross and then put transfer them to a new plate and hope they connect.
But there seems to be a lot that isn't fully known/understood about cultures - like if you take a clone is it always just one dikaryotic culture of mycelium? Or is it a network of multiple cultures that have somehow worked and or joined together.
I guess I need to research that strain crossing thread.
Adas, that is correct, the NecD that came out white is the weak one. I haven't yet tripped on the normal looking NecD culture I grew but would guess it's normal potency. I'm currently growing out clones of both.
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Adas
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Hindsight]
#27556346 - 11/24/21 12:38 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Damn! I've heard NecD were the most potent Pan out there. Very strange.
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Hindsight
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Adas] 1
#27556448 - 11/24/21 02:47 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'm sure NecD is very potent, but like anything, you get variations from MS grows and I just got a weird one - beautiful, but weak. I will trip on some of the regular looking NecD cultures I grew and report back but I'm sure it will be good.
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karri0n
Mind Traveller



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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Hindsight] 1
#27556656 - 11/24/21 06:15 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Hindsight said:
Quote:
Baba Yaga said: How about mixing grain spawn from two clones in one tray or two LCs to make spawn, they do it all the time with cubes in the "strain crossing thread".
I was under the impression that you can't truly cross varieties by allowing two different dikaryotic mycelium cultures to join together because they can't truly "join" once two monokaryotic cultures join to create a single dikaryotic culture. I thought that only way to do it was put spores in water, dilute it down quite a bit and spread it on some plates, then check any growth on the plate under a microscope for clamp connections and if you see them, you know you have a monokaryotic hyphae which is still looking to mate to another monokaryotic hyphae. The goal being to get a monokaryotic hyphae growth from each of the two strains you want to cross and then put transfer them to a new plate and hope they connect.
But there seems to be a lot that isn't fully known/understood about cultures - like if you take a clone is it always just one dikaryotic culture of mycelium? Or is it a network of multiple cultures that have somehow worked and or joined together.
I guess I need to research that strain crossing thread.
Adas, that is correct, the NecD that came out white is the weak one. I haven't yet tripped on the normal looking NecD culture I grew but would guess it's normal potency. I'm currently growing out clones of both.
That is the conventional wisdom, but it gets thrown on its head when you consider how many folks have mixed spawn and made crosses. Perhaps there is some horizontal gene transfer going on and not actual crossing, but it seems like no one has nailed down a real solid answer as to why it works or what is happening if it's not a cross.
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Panaeolus Bisporus
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Hindsight
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: karri0n]
#27556705 - 11/24/21 07:07 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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The closest I came to actually understanding this was when I asked a question some months ago and Bod responded. My question was basically: If you take a tissue sample from a fruit and grow it out on agar as a clone, are you guaranteed that the mycelium culture on that plate is the product of just TWO monokaryotic hyphae mating together into a SINGLE dikaryotic mycelium culture. The response was no. Different cultures can work together to produce fruit. IIRC he said they could be genuinely connected (fused together at different points) or simply overlayed and working together. I think this may be a subject that is still not very-well researched, or if it is, not many people understand it fully.
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Baba Yaga
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Hindsight] 5
#27556776 - 11/24/21 08:34 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Just saying it's probably your best bet if you want a shot at preserving what you got there while boosting potency.
Today I dumped the last of the experimental tubs on my compost pile for their second flushes. I was going to do a bit of a write up how they performed but I don't have the time at the moment so it has to suffice to just say that they didn't do as well as what I was already doing before.
Here is one of the experimental tubs and a nice cluster that came from it.

As I said, going back to do things the usual way as it gives me the best results like this last tiny tub which I harvested today. Could have harvested a day earlier but had to go away for a few days. 1/2 a myco quart to H-manure/coir, 109g wet first flush

and here is a 2nd flush cluster from the coir only sub that I had put in a planter and covered with grass clippings

no manure, who would have thought........
Glad I'm having a break from looking at tubs for a bit, another week and the clone spawn will be ready to be spawned.
Edited by Baba Yaga (11/24/21 08:47 PM)
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Baba Yaga
♥ coir grower

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: PsiloPsychIn]
#27556824 - 11/24/21 09:08 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
PsiloPsychIn said: I also have a crazy idea about a super low tech tek... more on that later.
.......Yes please. I'm a sucker for low-tech teks.
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SomeoneWhoIsMe
psilopsycho



Registered: 11/02/16
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Baba Yaga]
#27556855 - 11/24/21 09:28 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Baba Yaga said: Just saying it's probably your best bet if you want a shot at preserving what you got there while boosting potency.
Today I dumped the last of the experimental tubs on my compost pile for their second flushes. I was going to do a bit of a write up how they performed but I don't have the time at the moment so it has to suffice to just say that they didn't do as well as what I was already doing before.
Here is one of the experimental tubs and a nice cluster that came from it.

As I said, going back to do things the usual way as it gives me the best results like this last tiny tub which I harvested today. Could have harvested a day earlier but had to go away for a few days. 1/2 a myco quart to H-manure/coir, 109g wet first flush

and here is a 2nd flush cluster from the coir only sub that I had put in a planter and covered with grass clippings

no manure, who would have thought........
Glad I'm having a break from looking at tubs for a bit, another week and the clone spawn will be ready to be spawned.
Great work Baba
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Drboomer
The lord magnificent


Registered: 09/22/19
Posts: 957
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: SomeoneWhoIsMe]
#27556925 - 11/24/21 10:42 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Hindsight Yeah pan cakes are manure verm brf cakes. I tried a few regular pf pucks and got zilch. I use the holy grail plates for agar and just put about 1/8inch of pfcake in it.
Aka thank you for the offer. I'm not particularly looking for necd just pans in general as I've recently eaten them and they rocked my world in the weirdest best way. I don't ever use that vendor and likely won't again.
I got two little tufts just starting on the plate at 14 days so I'm hoping it's myc not mold I suppose I'll know in about a week
Edited by Drboomer (11/24/21 10:46 PM)
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Adas
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Drboomer]
#27557006 - 11/25/21 12:34 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Can't get enough of your grows, Baba!
Karri0n, I don't think horizontal gene transfer is a common occurence at all. Must be something else at play.
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MandalaMind
Symmetric


Registered: 09/28/19
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Adas]
#27557541 - 11/25/21 11:27 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Well just mixing 2 strains together in the jar/tub won't make a new strain but maybe they'll work together and fruit better. It's the same principle of clones of fruits doing better than the individual strains. The thing is you don't really know if they'll work together or not. It's a shot in the dark, you'll have to fruit the strains separately and then together and only then conclude. Maybe it'll be worse than fruited individially who knows.
Today i'm inoculating some cube v-teks to test some strains, so i will do a plate of cambo spores from my oldest print and hope to find some magical strain that will fruit in v-teks. @Adas gonna be honest i won't say no to that offer
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