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gt40
I will proof smthng



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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Hindsight] 1
#27522679 - 10/29/21 10:41 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Hindsight I'm sorry, missed you question. I do holes with medium crosshead screwdriver or scissors, depending which one is closer.
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Hindsight
Mad Scientist


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Asura]
#27522680 - 10/29/21 10:42 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Asura: Good to know about your not using LC now. Thanks for the info. Will be doing this next week and will report back on results. I need all the help I can get at this stage in the learning curve.
GT40: Thank you! I put 6 holes in my tray lids the other day using a hot soldering iron which is roughly the same size as a screwdriver.
Edited by Hindsight (10/29/21 10:43 AM)
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TheDoobsker
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Hindsight]
#27522709 - 10/29/21 11:15 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Asura, those caps are incredible 
Did these clones come out of storage in a slant? I have my first clone on grain right now but haven't really figured out if you can store pan clones effectively
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ruawakeyet


Registered: 05/03/21
Posts: 1,862
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Asura]
#27522711 - 10/29/21 11:17 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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I tried this method, at least something very close. I pasteurized enough bulk for one tray in the 2.5 gallon jumbo zipper bags that JOC has mentioned, (JOC style pasteurization), then added the colonized grain and mixed in bag. (The bulk sat for 2 to 5 days before adding spawn, 6 bags total.)
Not one of them colonized the bulk in bag. A couple of them showed a little colonization, but after a week there were only a few small spots. I went ahead and laid all of them to trays, covered with foil with 6 needle holes poked in the foil. 2 of them did colonize in trays, 4 never did squat. It seems that the spawn was killed off while sitting in 4 of the bags. The 2 that colonized got cased and placed into FC. After 2 weeks, there wasn't a single pin.
After tossing that entire round, I stopped trying to use the bags, and started pasteurizing bulk in a 21.5 quart stock pot. (In stove @ 160 degrees overnight) The stock pot can hold enough bulk for 3 trays at a time, and still have some room to mix it up. Went back to laying to trays, only I layered the bulk and spawn. Colonization was better, but still slow. (I saw where JOC advised against layering, and recommended mixing. My only successful trays were mixed, so if I ever start up again, I might go back to mixing...)
For this round, I tried Asura's tip on adjusting the pH of casing layer to the letter, 6 grams of HL added to a gallon of water. Since the HL doesn't dissolve, I shook the gallon up before each time adding to the 50/50 mix, until it was at a little over field capacity, allowing for some water loss during the pasteurization. (Same exact method as the bulk - stock pot in the oven overnight) The casing came out a little dry, but it made spreading it out easy using a sanitized fork. Once spread out, I misted it until it was all glistening wet with distilled water.
I filled a cup with the 50/50 mix and added some distilled water in order to get a pH reading. I also filled a cup with cactus/succulent mix, added the same amount and type of water in order to compare the pH reading. The 50/50 mix read 6.8, while the cactus mix read 7.5. I got consistent readings using multiple locations, and going back and forth, so I still think my pH tester is somewhat accurate.
Asura, I saw you tease about new methods months ago. (Maybe on that other site's official pan thread) I've checked back and don't see anything yet. Am I missing it somewhere? I read your post on making casing material, and it still doesn't have anything about the 6 grams of HL to a gallon of water. It seems everything is already outdated. I'm having enough problems just trying to follow what was once established. It's very discouraging, especially since I was trying to replenish my microdose supply before the cold weather set in, which has now happened.
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Asura
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: TheDoobsker]
#27522727 - 10/29/21 11:33 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
TheDoobsker said: Asura, those caps are incredible 
Did these clones come out of storage in a slant? I have my first clone on grain right now but haven't really figured out if you can store pan clones effectively
No, the clones were grown out and I just started a new grow with it. I'm isolating further. Didn't save any cultures of this stuff. I've had mixed results storing cultures in the fridge.
@ruawakeyet
I am still testing out a bunch of things. Basically, the whole year has been nothing but very low effort type grows. Everything old I have written down still works. I just don't feel like putting in the time and effort to do them.
So, besides the easier casing method. I am now spawning to "pasteurized" bulk. I use that term loosely. Just putting the sub in bags, throwing it in a PC and when it comes up to pressure I turn it off. Stole that from cron. I haven't had any contams at all, but obviously that wouldn't be considered a good practice. Just fruiting the same as before, but in a martha instead of my walk in shower. Hell, I don't even measure out my sub these days. Just eyeball it until the mix looks good.
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ruawakeyet


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Asura]
#27522733 - 10/29/21 11:39 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'm also wondering if my problems are stemming from too much isolation. I had a clone culture perform great for me once, and I kept it going on other agar plates, but now I have found some of those sub cultures will colonize fine, but aren't fruiting at all.
How far have you isolated a culture with success? I'm trying to narrow down what went wrong for me.
Thank you for all that you have done, I understand your not wanting to take the time to re-write entire teks.
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Asura
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: ruawakeyet]
#27522756 - 10/29/21 12:01 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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I don't take a culture far. From spores I rarely go to T3. Often I go right from T1. I'll fruit and take clones. Same with clone plates, usually use a T1 if I can.
I'll narrow the genetics from growing out the fruits themselves and cloning, not trying to guess what will work from a plate.
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ruawakeyet


Registered: 05/03/21
Posts: 1,862
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Asura]
#27522793 - 10/29/21 12:24 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Is there no way to keep a culture going then?
When I use a plate by putting agar wedges to grain, I have been putting one of those wedges on a new plate. I am now up to T3 and T4, not to try and clean up the culture, just trying to use it for the next round.
Is going back to spores and repeating the process the only option? This could very well be my problem, which means my stack of cultures is completely worthless. 
Edit: If taking clones from clones is ok, do you know how many times you can do this? Is that a viable option to keep a culture going?
Edited by ruawakeyet (10/29/21 12:29 PM)
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Hindsight
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Asura]
#27522795 - 10/29/21 12:25 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Asura, can you provide any details about the manure you are using these days? IE is it composted in a heap and allowed to really break down into a rich looking humus like you’d put in a garden bed, or does it look more like finely shredded and dried grass? Any ammonia smell to it after cooking?
I’m really starting to think contamination issues are highly linked to manure type and state (assuming clean spawn of course).
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bagga
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Hindsight]
#27522849 - 10/29/21 01:16 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Your sub looks very similar to my first.
I was coming here to ask if it's casing time? this one is a little over a week old.
Smells kinda shroomy/earthy. Not like poop anymore.
-------------------- _______________________ For personal religious use only. Embrace infinity for a healthier mind.
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Asura
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Hindsight]
#27522943 - 10/29/21 02:25 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
ruawakeyet said: Is there no way to keep a culture going then?
I don't have a sure fire way. If I had a wine fridge I could make it work better. I've made LC's in the past and stored cultures I like in vacutainers. But my success is about the same as it is with plates in the fridge. At least 50% of the time they seem to die.
Quote:
Hindsight said: Asura, can you provide any details about the manure you are using these days?
I am using poo from Shroom Supply which is like dirt. Slightly smells of urea/ammonia but not bad. Or pelletized poo from Myco Supply - which seems to have the same sort of smell.
You can always put in a pillow case, give it a good rinse and dry it in the sun. I've done that before but its a PITA.
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Hindsight
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Asura]
#27523051 - 10/29/21 04:06 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Thanks Asura, very helpful. If the next trays fail, I’ll be buying both of those that you mentioned plus Jake’s new sub in order to see if my substrate/manure is the issue.
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rockyfungus
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Hindsight]
#27523199 - 10/29/21 06:27 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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I don't see the point of isolates or LC. They are so fucking fast. Nothing has stored in cold temperatures for me. (Dry grains like FAHT may work)
I just started some from prints. By T2 I was on grain (T1 was fine). Few weeks for that to be colonized 2-3 (been 6 months)? Substrate I eyeball and just needs good texture. Some poo, straw, verm, coir, peat, whatever is on hand. Lime it up in the cold outside, drain it. Bag it shake it with spawn (I never seal it up). Lay it in a tray when mostly colonized. Case with some crap on hand. Handwater with a syringe as it's dry as balls here.
Redesigning FC so we shall see this time around.
I doubt manure is important. You got your shit and whatever texture is wrong you need to makeup for it. One time I used black kow in a pinch: pure mud and stones. Tons of verm and hay and good to go. If not muddy and a nice grassy texture probably just hay and good to go (I always use jiffy starter mix cuz I got a ton)
I assume my manure (I regularly turn straw/subs/lc/agar into) is fine to use straight? Been aging for years and has pans (nothing fun) popping up all the time. Just had some fruit after frost????
Edited by rockyfungus (10/29/21 10:09 PM)
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Jakeoncid419
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: ruawakeyet]
#27523345 - 10/29/21 08:19 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
ruawakeyet said: I tried this method, at least something very close. I pasteurized enough bulk for one tray in the 2.5 gallon jumbo zipper bags that JOC has mentioned, (JOC style pasteurization), then added the colonized grain and mixed in bag. (The bulk sat for 2 to 5 days before adding spawn, 6 bags total.)
Not one of them colonized the bulk in bag. A couple of them showed a little colonization, but after a week there were only a few small spots. I went ahead and laid all of them to trays, covered with foil with 6 needle holes poked in the foil. 2 of them did colonize in trays, 4 never did squat. It seems that the spawn was killed off while sitting in 4 of the bags. The 2 that colonized got cased and placed into FC. After 2 weeks, there wasn't a single pin.
After tossing that entire round, I stopped trying to use the bags, and started pasteurizing bulk in a 21.5 quart stock pot. (In stove @ 160 degrees overnight) The stock pot can hold enough bulk for 3 trays at a time, and still have some room to mix it up. Went back to laying to trays, only I layered the bulk and spawn. Colonization was better, but still slow. (I saw where JOC advised against layering, and recommended mixing. My only successful trays were mixed, so if I ever start up again, I might go back to mixing...)
For this round, I tried Asura's tip on adjusting the pH of casing layer to the letter, 6 grams of HL added to a gallon of water. Since the HL doesn't dissolve, I shook the gallon up before each time adding to the 50/50 mix, until it was at a little over field capacity, allowing for some water loss during the pasteurization. (Same exact method as the bulk - stock pot in the oven overnight) The casing came out a little dry, but it made spreading it out easy using a sanitized fork. Once spread out, I misted it until it was all glistening wet with distilled water.
I filled a cup with the 50/50 mix and added some distilled water in order to get a pH reading. I also filled a cup with cactus/succulent mix, added the same amount and type of water in order to compare the pH reading. The 50/50 mix read 6.8, while the cactus mix read 7.5. I got consistent readings using multiple locations, and going back and forth, so I still think my pH tester is somewhat accurate.
Asura, I saw you tease about new methods months ago. (Maybe on that other site's official pan thread) I've checked back and don't see anything yet. Am I missing it somewhere? I read your post on making casing material, and it still doesn't have anything about the 6 grams of HL to a gallon of water. It seems everything is already outdated. I'm having enough problems just trying to follow what was once established. It's very discouraging, especially since I was trying to replenish my microdose supply before the cold weather set in, which has now happened.
I don’t recommend trying to colonize them in the Ziploc bag I mix my spawn and bulk into the tray and then let the tray colonize pan cultures easily go oxygen deprived you don’t want to try and colonize too much at once because the center will often times not take and in a Ziploc there is zero gas exchange
-------------------- Natural omt/detox online pant cult classes available last Saturday of every month go to buymeacoffee.com/jakeoncid to sign up (1 on 1 consultations also available JOC PAN TEK CORDYCEPS MILITARIS EXOTICS [
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ruawakeyet


Registered: 05/03/21
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Jakeoncid419]
#27523458 - 10/29/21 10:13 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Oops, I didn't mean to imply JOC suggested to colonize the bulk in the bag. I thought up that mistake all by myself. I was originally planning on only using the bags to mix in, but for some reason that escapes me now, I didn't have trays sanitized and ready to lay to.
I figured the bags would be fine as the zipper had too many little pieces of manure for the zipper to seal. I just loosely rolled the tops, but apparently that wasn't enough air exchange.
My first attempt and only success came from colonizing in the trays, covered with foil, with 6 holes poked in the foil using a needle. I assumed they didn't get much air exchange under the foil.
Jake, IIRC, you colonize your trays with lids on, not latched, right? Do you have holes in the lids? Didn't you say you will lift the lid in front of your flowhood sometimes halfway through colonization?
I should have taken notes while I was reading. This entire thread + the official pan thread on that other site + JOC TEK + everything Asura wrote + some archived stuff = 1 scrambled memory
What are your latest thoughts on layering spawn / bulk vs. mixing?
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rockyfungus
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: ruawakeyet] 1
#27523479 - 10/29/21 10:36 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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You're working with isolates? How fast is it eating grain. Do you shake for recovery?
You're overthinking it. Pasteurized substrate is not sterile. Your grains should be fully colonized and healthy. I do it outside in open air...
Isn't the biggest factor with success the thickness of your cake and casing? (spawn obviously needs to be spot on) I'm no pan expert but that seemed to be my make it or break it.
Takeout trays latched or unlatched (they don't seal well typically). The foil you had success with.
Healthy selection on agar should just outrun everything IME. I half ass it and only time I've run into problems is bad spawn. Probably just shot myself in the foot.
Just shook 6 qts of wild coast and had to hold back on shaking everything else inoculated at that time. Praying for fast recovery!
Edited by rockyfungus (10/29/21 10:43 PM)
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rockyfungus
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: bagga]
#27523481 - 10/29/21 10:39 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
bagga said: Your sub looks very similar to my first.
I was coming here to ask if it's casing time? this one is a little over a week old.
Smells kinda shroomy/earthy. Not like poop anymore.

Bumping ya.
I think you could case, I'm used to a bit of a more cotton top though. Maybe pull that one twig that isn't colonized?
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bagga
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: rockyfungus]
#27523516 - 10/29/21 11:47 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Thanks Rocky, will do.
-------------------- _______________________ For personal religious use only. Embrace infinity for a healthier mind.
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ruawakeyet


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: rockyfungus]
#27523553 - 10/30/21 12:43 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
rockyfungus said: You're working with isolates? How fast is it eating grain. Do you shake for recovery?
You're overthinking it. Pasteurized substrate is not sterile. Your grains should be fully colonized and healthy. I do it outside in open air...
Isn't the biggest factor with success the thickness of your cake and casing? (spawn obviously needs to be spot on) I'm no pan expert but that seemed to be my make it or break it.
Takeout trays latched or unlatched (they don't seal well typically). The foil you had success with.
Healthy selection on agar should just outrun everything IME. I half ass it and only time I've run into problems is bad spawn. Probably just shot myself in the foot.
I didn't set out to work with isolates. A T1 of a clone performed well for me, and I simply wanted to keep running with it.
I read that pans want to be kept moving instead of sitting on a fully colonized plate for a long time, so I thought I could transfer to a fresh plate while I was inoculating grain. The newly inoculated plate would be used to inoculate the next round of grain, and so on.
It was when I began trying to use the T2 that I started having problems, but I think that round failed due to other issues. My current round using T3 cultures isn't a total bust, but it isn't anywhere near as good as the T1.
I really have too many variables to isolate the problems, mainly a difference in the age of manure used, the source of straw, pasteurizing in a stock pot in the oven instead of in bags in a slow cooker, etc. (That last one shouldn't matter, but loading up 3 trays worth in a pot instead of 1 trays worth in a bag has affected the moisture consistency of the straw.)
I have yet to find any pan culture that tears through agar or grain yet. I've done multiple germ plates, multiple T1s and T2s. The transfers past T1 were only to keep cultures going on fresh agar until I had the room to test them for fruiting. I've tried several different batches of agar, mostly the basics. None of the cultures have been faster than cubes yet.
The only stage I've seen pans move fast was on bulk.
I have been shaking grain jars at 10% to 30% colonized, occasionally again at around 75%. I usually only shake twice if there was a large area still uncolonized, which means I didn't do a very good job redistributing while shaking the first time. I haven't had any cultures stall out on grain yet.
I've been laying bulk to trays in open air except with my bag experiment. That really was a result of not having everything ready on time and not trusting my trays to be clean enough.
The only thing I've been able to keep consistent is the thickness of substrate and the casing layer. Sub is just under 2 inches, and the casing is very thin, with the sub still visible in some spots.
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rockyfungus
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: ruawakeyet]
#27523568 - 10/30/21 01:45 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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@babba; hope you didn't go right to casing. Looks fine to me, but I'd prefer the TCs.
@ru Where ya getting your spores. I may be totally wrong. I got absolutely fucking nowhere till I tracked down a reliable print.
I did 6 syringes 3 directly to grain (place never lets anyone down straight to grain, not that I condone it). 3 to agar. Nothing took! Played with my agar for years.
Grabbed a print and holy shit night and day difference. I mean my prints that are "fresher" are even faster then what I've ran previously.
I think if the genetics aren't there you're gonna just be going crazy.
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