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InvisibleHobotechnology
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: A.k.a]
    #27456138 - 09/04/21 03:16 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Cant wait to see the results


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OfflineHindsight
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Jakeoncid419] * 1
    #27456272 - 09/04/21 05:24 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Jakeoncid419 said:
fogger kicks on for 3 min exhaust fan kicks on halfway through the foggers run time for 3 min. So after the fogger kicks off the exhaust fan runs for another minute and a half pulling dry air into the tent then it kicks off in the system rests for 10 minutes full of Traer this is one of the most of your evaporation takes place in the fogger kicks back on and the whole process repeats





Awesome thank you, I will start with that cycle and adjust from there. Do you have any idea what your room RH is (which I assume is about the same RH as what your greenhouse will be during the 10 minute rest portion of the cycle)?

ruawakeyet thanks for the input - some good advice there. That's also a really clever setup you are running!

Oh and while searching for hot water heater drain pans, I came across washing machine drain pans. $25 and about the perfect size and shape for a MARTHA, plus they even come with a ~1" PVC bulkhead fitting so you can make a drain. All the hot water heater pans I found were round so I like this option better. Will post up pics of everything once it's done.


Edited by Hindsight (09/04/21 05:29 PM)


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InvisibleJesus_Malverde
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Fantastic Mr. Fox] * 1
    #27456431 - 09/04/21 09:19 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

First let me just say that I'm new to mushroom cultivation in practical experience, I tried growing cubes once before on brf cakes and failed. I know Copelandia are exotic and not recommended for beginners, however it grows naturally where I live in southern mexico, so it just more available to me than cubensis and also I just feel more connected to it  since I gathered it and journeyed with it more than cubensis.

I cloned some pan cyans that I found in a cow field.

https://

These are transfers I made from the clone plate that had the cleanest mycelium. This is the 3rd day after the transfer and it seems like it's going well at least the ones on the top.


I'm wondering what kind of grain to spawn it to when I get some fully colonized plates. I have some brown rice, cow dung and dried grass, and I want to do it the safest, fastest way for it to fruit so maybe a reliable dung cake recipe is what I'm looking for.

It feels so amazing to see mycelium grow on your dishes and I'm excited to move to the next stages.:cool::mushroom2:




This is one of my harvests this year, there's also lots of panaeolus cinctulus there. Love the rainy season :heart:


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InvisibleBaba Yaga
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Jesus_Malverde]
    #27456502 - 09/04/21 10:30 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Jesus_Malverde said:

I cloned some pan cyans that I found in a cow field.



These are transfers I made from the clone plate that had the cleanest mycelium. This is the 3rd day after the transfer and it seems like it's going well at least the ones on the top.







Welcome, you came to the right place.

What's up with that purple discoloration around your cultures? That looks very odd.

The easiest in terms of getting to the fruiting stage might be MacMerdins Pan Cakes He fruited his in an SGFC.

There are other good tech around which are utilizing automated fruiting chambers
though but if that is something you are willing to get into then check it out:

jcm4620
Asura
Jakeoncid419

I like growing them in mono tubs, if that is more your thing or if you like to try that first then have a look here: Panaeolus in Mono Tubs

I have also grown them outdoors following these very simple instructions by Zifozonke:  Lets grow PAN.CYAN outdoor - EAF, you could populate your backyard easily it seems.


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Invisibleruawakeyet
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Jesus_Malverde]
    #27456575 - 09/05/21 12:25 AM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Jesus, did you happen to take prints from any of the pans you collected? If so, you could always swab some spores to agar.

I can't really tell what's going on with your plates from the photo, it's a little out of focus. Can you take another picture? I think it's safe to say that you can trash the one on the lower right, it's gone bacterial.

As far as grains are concerned, and if you are going to spawn to bulk substrate, my preference would be milo, (aka sorghum). I've read oats are hit or miss, rye berries are commonly used with great success, but I've also seen people use wheat berries; rye grass seed, millet, I think it depends on what is available.

If you want to go dung cake route, I would recommend grinding the brown rice to flour, and add that to straw, cow manure, and maybe a little bit of vermiculite (vermiculite is optional). You would want to consider how to inoculate it, so you might have to make up some liquid inoculant or a liquid culture.

I also tried dried grass, but didn't have much success with it. Straw seems to be what they really like, which seems counter intuitive to me as straw has less nutrition in it than grass.

Baba Yaga linked the best write ups to read through. Read all of those, try as many different teks as you can or want to, and you'll find what works best for you.


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InvisibleJesus_Malverde
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: ruawakeyet]
    #27457103 - 09/05/21 12:56 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)













The last two looks like bacteria to me. What is that red/purple discoloration underneath the mycelium?

I did take some spore prints but I noticed they don't drop their spores so easily, I just figured cloning will be more reliable. I got the grass and the dung from the same field where I gathered the mushrooms so I thought it would work.

What ratio of brf, dung, grass(?) and vermiculite would you do for these cakes?

and for inoculating, won't it be good enough to drop a fully colonized agar dish in pasteurized grain?


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Invisibleruawakeyet
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Jesus_Malverde]
    #27457174 - 09/05/21 01:43 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

I agree on the last two plates, those are bacterial. No worries, you did the right thing by taking extras. With the new pictures, the myc looks good, but I don't know what the purple color is coming from. What kind of agar are you using? I wouldn't worry about it too much, as the myc looks good, but more symmetrical growth helps guarantee that there are no contaminates hiding out.

I think you are fine using the cow dung, I believe people usually prefer horse manure only because it isn't broken down as finely as cow manure, and helps with consistency. Cow dung is notorious for turning into mud when water is added to bring to field capacity. Straw and/or vermiculite helps keep the substrate more airy and light.

I don't want to discourage you from trying the dried grass, but I have read that dried grass tends to clump up and become too compact. Pans are especially prone to going anaerobic if the substrate is not airy and light enough. I tried it with a few tests and did not have good results. (I had already picked enough to fill a medium size box, but then threw it all on the compost pile after the poor results.)

Chopped straw seems to have the right amount of structure to avoid anaerobic conditions, despite it being less nutritious. I highly recommend it if it is available near you. (I know wheat or barley straw will work, I assume rice straw would be ok as well.)

In regards to inoculation: Cakes typically aren't inoculated using colonized grain. Cakes usually don't shake well, so liquid inoculant or liquid culture is usually used. (Look back several pages, there was a grower that formulated a light cake substrate that could be shaken. It looked to be colonizing well, but haven't seen the final results yet.)

Grain MUST be sterilized, pasteurization is not sufficient for grain!

Colonized grain is usually spawned to a pasteurized bulk substrate. This part is important: If manure is sterilized, it must be treated like sterile grain. It can not be exposed to open air, or it will likely contaminate. (Unless you are working in front of a flowhood or in a still air box.) Pasteurized manure (with or without straw) is resistant enough to contaminates that it can be mixed in open air, without extra equipment.

I highly recommend using a pasteurized bulk substrate, as you can make larger trays compared to small dung cakes. I recommend following JakeOncid's method exactly. It works!

I hope this didn't create more questions than were answered. Don't hesitate to ask if you have more questions!


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InvisibleBaba Yaga
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Jesus_Malverde]
    #27457186 - 09/05/21 01:55 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah all those plates appear to be contaminated IMO. Post some of the photos in the cult forum in a separate thread to get some
comments on this.

Possibly worth a shot to try transfers without touching the agar. You could use a syringe needle to plug some mycelium off,
an inoculation loop or sterile swab could work as well for that purpose.

But the contam could be meshed in throughout the growth so if I were you I'd try to find more fresh pans and take new clones
as well. Washing the sample in 3% H2O2 for 5 min. before taking a sample might help.

Can you take a picture of the underside of one of your plates.


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OfflineAdas
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Baba Yaga]
    #27457204 - 09/05/21 02:05 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

I need some help/advice here, guys (but mostly just share what I got going atm).

Here is a germ plate of my Florida Cyans, the spore print was nearly 1 year old. Still germinated fine (inoculated 26. 8., pic taken today), but I don't think the myc looks as good as from fresh spores. What's your experience? Can myc from old spores perform as well as myc from fresh spores? I'd love to know.



Here is Rainbow Eucalyptus germ plate. Looking great here (except the bacterial spot but that's nothing to worry about).



And here is my new Bisporus. Inoculated even earlier than 26. 8. (not sure exactly, maybe 3 days earlier?), but you can see it must have only germinated 2-3 days ago. I strongly hope I can get good myc out of it and have a nice grow. What do you think?



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Invisibleruawakeyet
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Baba Yaga]
    #27457209 - 09/05/21 02:09 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

I like that idea of taking a picture of the underside. That discoloration is something I've not seen before.

Forgive me for going off topic for a moment...

I was reading about an episode of American Dad a couple of days ago, the one about Krampus. Anyway, the page mentioned some other folk-stories from around the world, and it mentioned Baba Yaga. I instantly recognized the name, so I wanted to ask if the story was correct. (Not if it is true, but I wonder if the author knew what he was talking about.) It said that Baba Yaga is Russian folklore about a witch with bird legs that eats children.

I am curious to hear your take, and is that where your user name came from? No judgment here, I'm just interested because your avatar cracks me up! That is fucking original!


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OfflineA.k.aM
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Adas]
    #27457240 - 09/05/21 02:38 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

That first one looks bacterial. I have a dirty cube culture that’s growing very similar to that.


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OfflineAdas
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: A.k.a]
    #27457245 - 09/05/21 02:43 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Thanks for input Aka, but it's 100% not bacterial. I've even checked with a light, and from the underside now. Nothing sketch going on. I think it's just the age of the spores.


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Invisibleruawakeyet
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Adas]
    #27457320 - 09/05/21 03:39 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

I've seen Peace River Florida look similar on MEA. It still looks a little strange on WBS, but no other signs of contaminants were present. Time will tell if and how it fruits.


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InvisibleJesus_Malverde
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: ruawakeyet]
    #27457330 - 09/05/21 03:45 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)




Thanks everyone for your replies :heart:

The agar I'm using is 3 parts potato flakes, 2 parts agar-agar and 1 part honey. Sorry I still confuse pasteurizing and sterilizing, I meant grain that was sterilized in PC. I guess it doesn't have to be cakes, I just want to inoculate something with these agar plates once I have a few solid ones, whatever is more likely to succeed,  bulk substrate sounds good I just need to check if I can get the recommended grains here, it might not be so available. would corn work? we have a lot of that here lol:grin:. The manure I got has some horse dung in it as well so it might be good for the substrate.

So can the next step be inoculating grain with colonized dishes or I must make it into liquid culture before that?


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Offlinesmalltalk_canceled
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Jesus_Malverde]
    #27457375 - 09/05/21 04:28 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

The most important control you can exert that also trains the core skills in the hobby, is to make great grain spawn from also great agar plates.

If you are still starting out, just focus on producing beautiful agar growth, and transfering your best agar growth to grains.

Corn works just fine, but it's considered by many to be a inferior grain.

I've specialized in corn over other grains, and I find corn performs, but I don't have side by side comparisons. It does affect yields to choose corn over rye or other well respected grains. How much I cannot say.

What made corn a choice for me was the ease of prepping it. You can even just pressure cook it for 1 hour depending on volume of corn and water. Large amounts take more time.

When they are done, they are bloated with water, it's easy to tell and surface is pretty smooth, so it dries off water decently.

What type of grain you choose probably also matters less than the culture, quality of the prep, and the amount of grainspawn you produce in total, when thinking yields.

-cornholio


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Edited by smalltalk_canceled (09/05/21 04:30 PM)


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Invisibleruawakeyet
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Jesus_Malverde]
    #27457377 - 09/05/21 04:29 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

No worries on the mixup, I just didn't want you to waste time or materials.

Seeing the underside of that plate, I don't think it's clean. I have no idea what it is, but it shouldn't look purple like that.

Once you have some clean culture on agar, you can transfer directly to sterile grain. You would only need a liquid if you wanted to inoculate cakes. The difference being that grains can be shook up, and you can bury the agar wedge into the grains. With a cake, they are nearly impossible to shake, so an agar wedge would just sit on top and either dry out and die, or take a long time to colonize the cake.

Do you have a flowhood or a still air box?

Edit: Corn will work, but might reduce yield a little. If that's what you have available, I would use it. With pans, you only want 1 part grain spawn to 4 or 5 parts bulk substrate, so I don't think the grain choice is critical. Corn has larger kernels than other grains, so you won't get as many inoculation points when spawning to bulk. (For example: milo is much smaller, so there are many more kernels in the same volume.)


Edited by ruawakeyet (09/05/21 04:32 PM)


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InvisibleBaba Yaga
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Jesus_Malverde]
    #27457404 - 09/05/21 04:51 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Jesus_Malverde said:



Thanks everyone for your replies :heart:

The agar I'm using is 3 parts potato flakes, 2 parts agar-agar and 1 part honey. Sorry I still confuse pasteurizing and sterilizing, I meant grain that was sterilized in PC. I guess it doesn't have to be cakes, I just want to inoculate something with these agar plates once I have a few solid ones, whatever is more likely to succeed,  bulk substrate sounds good I just need to check if I can get the recommended grains here, it might not be so available. would corn work? we have a lot of that here lol:grin:. The manure I got has some horse dung in it as well so it might be good for the substrate.

So can the next step be inoculating grain with colonized dishes or I must make it into liquid culture before that?





I think this is fusarium and you shouldn't use any of these plates to inoculate grain, it will fail and be a waste of time.

That actually looks like you should toss all the plates and start with new clones or even better start from spores for now....print some of your finds.


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InvisibleJesus_Malverde
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: ruawakeyet]
    #27457406 - 09/05/21 04:53 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Well I guess I'll be doing some more transfers, that's ok as long as I have an idea on what to do after. I'm using a still air box.


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InvisibleBaba Yaga
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Jesus_Malverde]
    #27457410 - 09/05/21 04:55 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

you can try but see if you can collect some spores and start new plates as well, cleaning that up might not be possible.


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InvisibleBaba Yaga
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: ruawakeyet]
    #27457423 - 09/05/21 05:05 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

ruawakeyet said:
I like that idea of taking a picture of the underside. That discoloration is something I've not seen before.

Forgive me for going off topic for a moment...

I was reading about an episode of American Dad a couple of days ago, the one about Krampus. Anyway, the page mentioned some other folk-stories from around the world, and it mentioned Baba Yaga. I instantly recognized the name, so I wanted to ask if the story was correct. (Not if it is true, but I wonder if the author knew what he was talking about.) It said that Baba Yaga is Russian folklore about a witch with bird legs that eats children.

I am curious to hear your take, and is that where your user name came from? No judgment here, I'm just interested because your avatar cracks me up! That is fucking original!





lol thanks, I'll keep it short cause OT:

read lots of international fairy tales/legends as a kid/young adult and Baba Yaga stuck with me (among others),
very cool stories, so yeah American Dad is closer to the story than the John Wick franchise calling her the boogieman.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baba_Yaga


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