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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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ID on non-active mushroom
    #22216346 - 09/10/15 10:50 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Habitat: lawn, though I can't tell if they are growing from the underground roots of a pine tree.


Gills: white

Stem: white, earlier when more samples were available, I can recall seeing a ringed stalk, though on the sample I have now the stalk broke at a point where it makes it impossible to tell, by memory though I think I recall a ringed stalk.


Cap: flat, tan/light brown/white, from a dark center radiates red looking or brown "scales", the area beneath the "scales" and dark coloring is light tan.

Spore print color: none taken

Bruising: none


Other information: while in an attempt to identify another species I came across photos of this species, and forgot to take down the Latin name, I also browsed so many mushroom sites I can't remember which one it site I saw it on...






-E. Borodin


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: ID on non-active mushroom [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22216360 - 09/10/15 10:55 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

There's also an anomalous green stripe or spot near the center of the cap that can be seen in the photo, though I don't recall seeing spots like this on any other previously observed samples...and I don't think it means anything at all, it's still an interesting feature of this specific individual mushroom.

-E. Borodin


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: ID on non-active mushroom [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22216390 - 09/10/15 11:03 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
There's also an anomalous green stripe or spot near the center of the cap that can be seen in the photo, though I don't recall seeing spots like this on any other previously observed samples...and I don't think it means anything at all, it's still an interesting feature of this specific individual mushroom.

-E. Borodin




It's hard to imagine what had gotten on it to cause the spot...

-E. Borodin


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: ID on non-active mushroom [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22216402 - 09/10/15 11:05 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)



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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: ID on non-active mushroom [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #22216706 - 09/10/15 12:29 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Perfect! Thank you!

http://urbanmushrooms.com/index.php?id=69
http://americanmushrooms.com/lawnandgarden.htm
http://www.mushroomexpert.com/lepiota_cristata.html

These are the 3 sites I have been using, the downside is if I find a species and think "I know I was just looking at that mushroom online" I'll have to sift through massive amounts of history items from all 3 sites before I find it.

Thank you, you saved me a good deal of time, as well as helped me with a confirmed ID (this is just hobby research, and I NEVER consume anything I find, confirmed or not, so I can afford to make errors, I just would really prefer not to, I want to have the proper facts, even though it would not hurt me if I didn't)

I'm calling this species confirmed

The more confirmed identifications I get, and the more I learn, the less I will have to post,I've got all the obvious species pretty much down, LBMs are still a challenge, any way thank you for being patient while I learn.

-E. Borodin


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: ID on non-active mushroom [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22217440 - 09/10/15 03:45 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
and I NEVER consume anything I find





Please reconsider your mycophobia.  Eating mushrooms from the woods is safe & fun!


Not this one, but surely the majority of your finds are edible.


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: ID on non-active mushroom [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #22217946 - 09/10/15 05:57 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
and I NEVER consume anything I find





Please reconsider your mycophobia.  Eating mushrooms from the woods is safe & fun!


Not this one, but surely the majority of your finds are edible.




Maybe when I'm more knowledgeable I may consider it, it's not so much mycophobia as it is phobia of mycophagism, I love mushrooms, just have issues with eating them.

-E. Borodin


Edited by Coincidentiaoppositorum (09/10/15 07:02 PM)


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: ID on non-active mushroom [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22217987 - 09/10/15 06:07 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Hey remember how the cap was bruising blue?


Look dead center it looks line a blue line. You have to click on the image so you can see it in full size, I also have another fresh sample, I'm going to see if the anomaly repeats.

-E. Borodin


I picked this mushroom and photographed, I never set it down, the blue Anomoly was present when I discovered it (I collected a fresh sample for more comparison, though most of these are gone now, a while back there were tons, and they only seemed to grow along the underground root of this pine, ok, I found this picture in a link and it reminded me of the blue anomaly on my sample...
http://mushroomobserver.org/55088?q=2dcz7

What do you think?

-E. Borodin


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: ID on non-active mushroom [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22217994 - 09/10/15 06:09 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Notice how the edges of mine are cracking in the same pattern...

-E. Borodin


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: ID on non-active mushroom [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22218039 - 09/10/15 06:20 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)



Here's a fresh sample with the dry sample next to it, no bluing noticed on the fresh sample, it may have been a random coincidence and something blue got on this particular mushroom before I found it , but that's really not what it looks like...

-E. Borodin


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: ID on non-active mushroom [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22218101 - 09/10/15 06:33 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)


This is lepiota cuarlenscens, and they look alike, but my samples don't dramatically blue as most the pictured samples of this species, they do look like the picture above...
-----


These are lepiota trichoma, which resemble my sample and also turn blue.

It may just be a crazy coincidence with a look alike species, or the species it was initially identified as, but who knows, they do resemble these lepiota species as well, then I find a blue anomaly, that is a strange coincidence...

It's got to be a coincidence, there's now way, right?

-E. Borodin


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: ID on non-active mushroom [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22218264 - 09/10/15 07:04 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)




What do you think?

(Top picture came from the web,the link to the site is in a previous post featured with the same picture, the bottom picture comes from my lawn)
, placed side by side to compare)
-E. Borodin


Edited by Coincidentiaoppositorum (09/10/15 07:06 PM)


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: ID on non-active mushroom [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22218641 - 09/10/15 08:38 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

It has to be a bizzare coincidence...

-E. Borodin


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Re: ID on non-active mushroom [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22220886 - 09/11/15 09:05 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)


Lepiota caerulescens (sourced from the web)

(My suspect samples, note in the image of the cap (you must enlarge and view the whole image) the blue anomaly near the center)




Is this even a possibility? Or am I making myself look foolish?

There was a blue anomaly on the cap of my original sample, which made me think twice, is it possible I found one of this species(
Lepiota caerulescens) that just displays the absolute minimal amount of bluing?

Or did something else cause the blue anomaly, and I'm looking into something that is not there?

-E. Borodin


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: ID on non-active mushroom [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22220912 - 09/11/15 09:12 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

As far as I can tell nobody has bothered to see why Lepiota caerulescens bruises blue, I started a thread concerning this issue and still came up empty handed regarding the chemical composition or if any person has attempted consuming
Lepiota caerulescens.

The thought that I may have a sample to study is pretty exciting, but I may just be wasting my time over a small blue anomaly on a single sample...

-E. Borodin


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Re: ID on non-active mushroom [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22221391 - 09/11/15 11:14 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Given that there are deadly species of Lepiota i doubt anyone is in a rush to try eating them!


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: ID on non-active mushroom [Re: Untitled]
    #22222136 - 09/11/15 01:56 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Untitled said:
Given that there are deadly species of Lepiota i doubt anyone is in a rush to try eating them!




I wouldn't be either, I'm not going to get into it here, but I don't ever eat wild fungi.

A chemical analysis would be nice...

If they were going to try to GC/MS a fungi with unknown alkaloid content, what's the assurance that their volatile solvent would leach out all the compounds in the fungi before it was injected into the chromatograph? Would they have to do extracts of the fungi with multiple solvents? Then test each individual one?

I'm surprised that nobody has ever attempted chemical analysis, because there is obviously something chemical going on...

Could you try a van urk test on a piece of the fungi? or on an  extract from the fungi to determine if it is caused by psilocybin at least? I mean if it was some other compound it wouldn't help, but shouldn't these methods at least determine if it's caused by psilocin? Because that's seriously what it looks like (which still does not ensure that something toxic is not present with the psilocin, but it would at least confirm the presence of the compound suspected of causing the bluing.

...and say I did actually have a sample, I could at least try rudimentary chemical color change tests, or send a sample to a laboratory for analysis (which i would pay for if it would document the previously unknown the alkaloid content) (...unless they want massive amounts of money, but if it's just a GC/MS on the liquid solvent extracts of the fungi, it shouldn't cost any more than ecstasydata.org or any of the other GC/'S sites...)




-E. Borodin


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Re: ID on non-active mushroom [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22222269 - 09/11/15 02:29 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

I wouldn't be either, I'm not going to get into it here, but I don't ever eat wild fungi.



I had noticed :wink:


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: ID on non-active mushroom [Re: Untitled]
    #22222474 - 09/11/15 03:02 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

All the bluing Lepiota species fascinate me, and I'm fairly certain it will turn out that they contain psilocybin. Why nobody has bothered to investigate this is beyond me.

Are there many psilocybin mushrooms out there that are not scientifically known to be psilocybian mushrooms?

Do people know very well that these are psilocybian mushrooms and are trying to keep it quite for some reason?

-E. Borodin


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Re: ID on non-active mushroom [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22225569 - 09/12/15 02:46 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Why nobody has bothered to investigate this is beyond me.



Probably because it's not profitable and costs a lot of time and money.


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: ID on non-active mushroom [Re: Untitled]
    #22229907 - 09/13/15 03:44 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Untitled said:
Quote:

Why nobody has bothered to investigate this is beyond me.



Probably because it's not profitable and costs a lot of time and money.




I bet some scientist could find some intellegent kid who would work for free just for the education to do the work...time and money should never be an impediment to knowledge.

Though even if they found psilocin they might find alpha-amanitin with it (though I cant recall ever hearing of these two compounds ever occurring together in any other fungi, who knows, stranger things have happened.

-E. Borodin


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: ID on non-active mushroom [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22232207 - 09/13/15 03:11 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
All the bluing Lepiota species fascinate me, and I'm fairly certain it will turn out that they contain psilocybin. Why nobody has bothered to investigate this is beyond me.

Are there many psilocybin mushrooms out there that are not scientifically known to be psilocybian mushrooms?

Do people know very well that these are psilocybian mushrooms and are trying to keep it quite for some reason?





All of the bluing Lepiotas have been moved into Leucoagaricus.

They do not contain psilocybin - the shade of blue is different, and the way it appears is different. 

See

Definitely not a shade of blue that psilocybin mushrooms have.

More photos:  http://mushroomobserver.org/56456


There are some psilocybin mushrooms which are not known to have it - mostly Gymnopilus species, a genus that needs a lot of work.  All psilocybin mushrooms also have psilocin, so they do stain blue occasionally at least.  You won't find any psilocybin in white spored genera like Leucoagaricus.  All of the genera that contain psilocybin are probably known, but much remains to be discovered at the species level.



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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: ID on non-active mushroom [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #22234578 - 09/13/15 09:44 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)



In a few species it looks exactly like psilocin, though I will admit at other times it does have this bizzare green that would not be typical of a psilocin mushroom.


alpha-Amanitin is created through a bridge between 6-hydroxytryptophan and cysteine allowing further formation of the compound, so there is some tryptamine chemistry involved even in the toxic species....though its completley unrelated to psychedelic tryptamine compounds...


Psilocin or not, a simple tests could determine alkaloid content, and whether they are toxic, active, or benign I still think that science should be interested in finding that out.

-E. Borodin


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: ID on non-active mushroom [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22234613 - 09/13/15 09:50 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

http://mushroomobserver.org/55088?q=2dhcD

Specially in species like this where blue bruising is minimal...

...but yeah your right, in a good deal of cases it is this bizzare purple/green mess that very little resembles psilocin, still worth looking into in my oppinion though.

-E. Borodin


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