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OfflinePHARMAKOS
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Registered: 09/13/02
Posts: 573
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
Global Collapse?!
    #2221549 - 01/05/04 10:32 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

is anyone familiar with the various studys published by enviromental scientists predicting that at our current rate of enviromental degradation, the earth will no longer sustain life within 10 years?
Now, there were 3 or 4 diffrent estimates put out and i cant remember which was the more recent. But regardless all of the estimates, which were reached by a collaborative effort of over 100 scientists world wide, place the collapse date well within our own lifetimes.
hold on ill find a link...

"Human beings and the natural world are on a collision course." That was the apocalyptic warning uttered in 1992 by some 1700 scientists from 69 countries, including 99 of the 196 living Nobel laureates. Tragically, no one with any power is listening. In the ensuing four years, corporate managers and political officials have only accelerated their "massive tampering with the world's interdependent web of life."

check out the site:

http://www.deoxy.org/sciwarn.htm

http://www.friendsoffreedom.com/Writings/BrownEnvironment.html

theres lots more. WHat this is saying is that the most knowledgable people in the world are telling us that our world as we know it will come to end as soon as 10 years. 2012? this is not some prophecy or superstition./ This is very real and scary.

Whats to be done?


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InvisibleAutonomous
MysteriousStranger

Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 901
Loc: U.S.S.A.
Re: Global Collapse?! [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2221618 - 01/05/04 11:02 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Chicken little alarmists have been predicting such things for an awful long time. I believe Thomas Malthus had it wrong a couple of centuries ago. A few decades ago the 'experts' were predicting another ice age because of how humans were affecting the environment.


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"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


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InvisibleOkEyToKeY
Registered: 02/18/02
Posts: 88
Re: Global Collapse?! *DELETED* [Re: Autonomous]
    #2221633 - 01/05/04 11:09 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

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OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
Re: Global Collapse?! [Re: OkEyToKeY]
    #2221689 - 01/05/04 11:30 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I think the solution already lined up for many powers is "kill a shitload of people"


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


Edited by Strumpling (01/05/04 11:32 PM)


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InvisibleOkEyToKeY
Registered: 02/18/02
Posts: 88
Re: Global Collapse?! *DELETED* [Re: Strumpling]
    #2221701 - 01/05/04 11:37 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

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Offlinerecalcitrant
My Own God

Registered: 04/20/02
Posts: 2,927
Loc: Canada West
Last seen: 6 months, 24 days
Re: Global Collapse?! [Re: OkEyToKeY]
    #2221727 - 01/05/04 11:48 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

property is theft, i like that, can i use it?


--------------------

We have to answer our own prayers


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OfflinePHARMAKOS
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Registered: 09/13/02
Posts: 573
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
Re: Global Collapse?! [Re: OkEyToKeY]
    #2221752 - 01/05/04 11:57 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

these are not 'chicken little alarmists'! did you read the articles?
170 legitimate scientists from 69 countries, 70 of the nobel laureates. These are the most knowledgable living scientists working in every scientific field. Dismissing this kind of scientific evidence out of hand is only delaying the inevitable moment when we realise were too late to save our fat greedy asses


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OfflinePHARMAKOS
addict
Registered: 09/13/02
Posts: 573
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
Re: Global Collapse?! [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2221759 - 01/06/04 12:01 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I too live in the great white north, and my dad is also worried about the world situation. Im sitting pretty though because were building a big Cabin complex way out in the misty white shell, right on the best fishing spot on the lake, a huge fresh water supply and a forest literally infested with big healthy dear. Add a vegetable garden, a generator and a water pump and its all good all year. ANd its surrounded on 3 sides by water and completely shelterd by trees. not that were worried about an imminent apocolypse but its nice to know theres a place for all my family and friends if things ever get ugly.


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InvisibleOkEyToKeY
Registered: 02/18/02
Posts: 88
Re: Global Collapse?! *DELETED* [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2221783 - 01/06/04 12:14 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

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InvisibleDoctorJ
Stranger
 Arcade Champion: Frogger

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,451
Loc: space
Re: Global Collapse?! [Re: OkEyToKeY]
    #2221788 - 01/06/04 12:18 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

This WILL all change, for economic reasons, not environmental ones.




I dont think its a case of one our the other. economics and environment are tied together. Too bad most of the people in power are shitty economists.


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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InvisibleAutonomous
MysteriousStranger

Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 901
Loc: U.S.S.A.
Re: Global Collapse?! [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2221792 - 01/06/04 12:19 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

PHARMAKOS said:
these are not 'chicken little alarmists'! did you read the articles?



Yes, there are also numerous intelligent, well informed people who disagree.

Quote:

170 legitimate scientists from 69 countries, 70 of the nobel laureates.



See above comment.

Quote:

These are the most knowledgable living scientists working in every scientific field.



That point is debatable.

Quote:

Dismissing this kind of scientific evidence out of hand is only delaying the inevitable moment when we realise were too late to save our fat greedy asses



Sorry, history is a great teacher that ivory tower academics are usually not as prescient as they would like the unwashed masses to believe.

Don't get me wrong. I am not for trashing the environment or abandoning reasonable measures to reduce our creation of pollutants, I just think that the alarmist rhetoric is a bit overboard and I am old enough to know how wrong 'scientific' predictions can be and how people will blow things out of proportion in order to secure funding for their pet projects - welfare for scientists is alive and well in the industrialized world.


--------------------
"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


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InvisibleAutonomous
MysteriousStranger

Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 901
Loc: U.S.S.A.
Re: Global Collapse?! [Re: OkEyToKeY]
    #2221810 - 01/06/04 12:31 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

You brought up some very good points. I can honestly say that I have never met a person who expressed a desire to trash the planet and make it unlivable. Humans are one of the most adaptable animals on the planet and I have faith that we will develop methods, science and cultural changes that will make these predictions seem quite overblown to future generations. It may seem a bit incongruous, but I also believe that the alarmist rhetoric does do a service towards these ends even if I think it is overblown.


--------------------
"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


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OfflinePHARMAKOS
addict
Registered: 09/13/02
Posts: 573
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
Re: Global Collapse?! [Re: Autonomous]
    #2221831 - 01/06/04 12:39 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

well this thread achieved exactly what i was looking for, encouragment. It is undeniable that the technologies to counteract enviromental destruction have existed for a long time. However im skeptical as to wheather this revolution will come about in time. I mean look at the current government in the states. Hemp has been violently supressed for years and drug laws are becoming even more ridiculous. George bush has made oil his number one priority, and gas consumption continues to increase. All the things you pointed out (hydrogen fuel, hemp farming) have been known about for years and actively supressed by the government. THe states has refused outright to sign the kyoto protocol.What evidence is there that anjy of these changes will occur?


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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
Re: Global Collapse?! [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2221855 - 01/06/04 12:51 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Very little. Im sure there is somewhat of a "war" between those that would seek alternative energy and the oil companies. It is not in their interest to change their market right now, they would lose too much money. As long as the rich have the most money, even if shit were to hit the fan, they have enough resources to buy themselves a little hole in the ground.

I would hope that sometime in my life i could contribute positively in some way for the environment. Ive seen so much beauty, and ive seen so many things die, to see that which we live from go sour, would be a tragedy.

Ive wondered for a long while if there were a conspiracy aboout alternative energy. I guess ive just read too much about Tesla and others on totse.


--------------------
What?


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InvisibleOkEyToKeY
Registered: 02/18/02
Posts: 88
Re: Global Collapse?! *DELETED* [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2221863 - 01/06/04 12:53 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Post deleted by OkEyToKeY

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Offlinecatalyst777
soul searcher
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 144
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
Re: Global Collapse?! [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2221883 - 01/06/04 01:05 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

What do I think? I think it's too late, but I hope I'm wrong. Does that mean should do nothing? Of coarse not! If we want to change things, we need to alter our lifestyles on a huge scale. I don't know how we're gonna do it.


--------------------
Facts do not cease to exist just because they are ignored.

Aldous Huxley


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InvisibleMeetMeInEleusis
employee,ministry oftruth

Registered: 11/03/01
Posts: 223
Loc: atop an isolated mountain...
Re: Global Collapse?! *DELETED* [Re: OkEyToKeY]
    #2221889 - 01/06/04 01:07 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

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InvisibleOkEyToKeY
Registered: 02/18/02
Posts: 88
Re: Global Collapse?! *DELETED* [Re: MeetMeInEleusis]
    #2221914 - 01/06/04 01:19 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Post deleted by OkEyToKeY

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Offlinecatalyst777
soul searcher
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/27/03
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Re: Global Collapse?! [Re: OkEyToKeY]
    #2221947 - 01/06/04 01:33 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I consider the "urban jungle" to be a manifestation of human corruption. It's not a healthy place to live, by any means.


--------------------
Facts do not cease to exist just because they are ignored.

Aldous Huxley


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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
Re: Global Collapse?! [Re: catalyst777]
    #2222214 - 01/06/04 04:00 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I agree with you catalyst, as it stands right now. Its awful in my opinion, its not an even nice urban jungle, there is very little order to the majority of it.
----

Ranty rant rant -
_____________

There has been little planning in the formation of cities as they exist now... People buy the land, put up what they want in the restrictions of the law. But aesthetically, its shit.

I think it would be very beneficial it we let a lot more nature into our work. We could save energy, resources, people.

The urban jungle as it exists is excuisite when people cant breath in the streets, or when you drive your car on the freeway stuck in traffic. Or when your house is positioned so beautiful the rising summer texas sun. The sound is so sweet when the zooming traffic wizes by your house and you hear the constant hum of lights, cars, wal mart's, taco bell's, jack in the box's, u name it. The ammount that could be saved if we had better building planning, noise reduction.

Why are we not using LID's in the majority of our traffic lights? Things could be a lot better, thats all im saying. Being nature friendly, recycling, practicing conservation, planning, could make this world a lot better place.

But to change any of this costs more than corporation care about, they are interested in the most ammount of profit in the "here and now". What about the long term effects? How much time will be left before changing anything will make it too late? Where our cities have expanded out into a corrupted urban wilderness? How many more oil tankers will spill in the oceans, how many times will we make mistakes, till we suffer major consequences... I dont know!


--------------------
What?


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