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Urist
The Dwarf



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Large Melatonin doses
#22215381 - 09/10/15 03:10 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I suffer from chronic insomnia made worse by Adderall. I have been trying to find a sleeping aid that improves sleep and is less expensive than pot. I've tried standard doses of Melatonin with no effects so tonight I said fuck it since there is no LD50 with the stuff. Also wikipedia and various anecdotes say it has dream potentiation at high doses. What have your experiences been?
T+0 30mg Melatonin, 1.5g GABA, 1g L-Tyrosine, 200mg 5-HTP T+5min Mild sedation and anxiolysis, probably psychosomatic. T+1hr 30mg Melatonin and made this post.
I'll report in the morning if any effects are noticed.
Edited by Urist (09/10/15 03:20 AM)
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musiclover420
psychonaut



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Re: Large Melatonin doses [Re: Urist]
#22215391 - 09/10/15 03:19 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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My mom has a single mom friend with two kids, one of which is pretty young.
She was giving her younger kid a bunch of melatonin to help him sleep and I overheard them talking about it.
One thing I always was sketched out by with taking melatonin is the lack of research of how it effects the brain.
Seems to me like if you take it regularly the brain might have a harder time producing enough naturally, that is just my theory on it though 
I am sure taking small amounts even fairly often is not the worst.
Try kratom or something maybe, it can make sleep harder too but it can also help a ton if you use it right.
Celestrus Paniculatus is a sedating dream enhancer too, with nootropic effects.
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
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Shroomslip
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Re: Large Melatonin doses [Re: Urist] 1
#22215392 - 09/10/15 03:19 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'm no expert but I seem to recall several sources saying using high doses of melatonin for sleeplessness actually makes the problem worse in the long run. I can't find them now, so it may of been bullshit. 
I can tell you this though, melatonin is not like a sedative, it simply doesn't work like that. You can't necessarily treat the same like you would a sedative. "5mg didn't work, I just need more".
From my research into it, it's not even something that's meant to put you to sleep. It's for regulating sleep. If you have actual insomnia, it's probably going to do jack shit. If you just have a repeated problem of going to bed hours later than you need to, it might help you.
My experience with melatonin, it does nothing. I have severe insomnia. Even Valerian root does a better job of helping me sleep, but overall even that is largely ineffective. Take all of this with a grain of salt, because as I said in the beginning, I'm no expert. I only have the memory of stuff I've read and my own experiences.
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With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
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musiclover420
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Re: Large Melatonin doses [Re: Shroomslip]
#22215398 - 09/10/15 03:23 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I used to take melatonin with tons of sedating tea's and stuff and it only worked if I really tried to relax myself and went and layed down too.
Meditating and trying to relax probably did more than the melatonin, same with the sedating tea's though they do help sometimes.
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
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sweetpea

Registered: 12/29/13
Posts: 327
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Edited by sweetpea (09/13/15 03:06 PM)
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Urist
The Dwarf



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Re: Large Melatonin doses [Re: Shroomslip]
#22215406 - 09/10/15 03:30 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I dont take it every night any more because I have never had any effects from it before and I've taken it more for the reports of dream potentiationat large doses. I actually have some Kratom (Bali Red) but the other day I botched a toss and wash and just thinking about downing some makes me shiver in disgust. Also, even with the most sedating strain I could find it still causes stimulation. And as far as I know opiates are just as bad as Benzos, Z-drugs (which I am severely allergic to) and Diphenhydramine in regards to sleep architecture anyways. I also have kava, but that doesnt do much for me on it's own.
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Shroomslip
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Re: Large Melatonin doses [Re: sweetpea]
#22215410 - 09/10/15 03:33 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
sweetpea said: Sleep medications are basically useless, rule them out as an option and change your lifestyle, instead. Just my opinion.
I respect your opinion, but sleep medications are all that will make me sleep. I have tried every life change under the Sun and none of it did anything. Meditating, reading, relaxing, dietary changes, hard physical labor/exercise during the day, lots of exposure to sun, list goes on and on.
Quite frankly the only thing will put me out with any semblance of regularity, is heavy drugs. Even THAT isn't 100% effective. I literally take the drugs that knock the majority of people right the fuck out and still can lay in bed for hours and won't fall asleep.
I realize that this isn't an ideal situation to be in. I've already had to change meds a couple of times because they stopped working. But for the time being, it's all I have.
Of course this would literally never be any issue whatsoever if I could just smoke weed. That shit will put me out if I desire to just go to sleep.
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With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
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sweetpea

Registered: 12/29/13
Posts: 327
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Edited by sweetpea (09/13/15 03:05 PM)
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Shroomslip
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Re: Large Melatonin doses [Re: sweetpea]
#22215436 - 09/10/15 03:53 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Gotta stay clean for a job that does hair testing.
Minus a month or two period where I decided it was a pipe dream, I've been clean for over 2 years now. Shit just takes time and I've been shown that. I had been clean for almost a year before I decided fuck it, and then got my shot and had to fucking pass on it. So I had to get clean again and am now waiting on my next opportunity.
Ambien was one of the ones I was on, and at first it was great. But that shit will make you crazy. Ambein is SO fucking weird. Eventually it just stopped working, even when I was getting it's effects. It's far from a good situation to be in. But this is all I have. Medicine I'm on now (Tamazepam) does a wonderful job putting me to sleep over all, and I don't go fucking crazy on it.
Ambein is what started my sleep paralysis. I didn't link it to that at the time (I've always had fucked up sleep patterns and issues, I just chalked it up to my insomnia progressing). That alone is worth getting off it. Sleep paralysis fucking sucks the biggest donkey balls out there. That shit is terrifying. The first dozen times I didn't even know what it was. I read something about sleep paralysis by chance after it had already started happening to me and found out what it was I was experiencing. So yeah, it's pretty terrifying to wake up and feel an evil presence in the room, being unable to move and have no idea why it might be happening. In that half awake half asleep stage, there's little rational thought like "this is impossible" or "there is no demon". It's 100% real and happening to you. At any minute it's going to kill you.
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With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
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olson
Stranger

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Re: Large Melatonin doses [Re: sweetpea]
#22215444 - 09/10/15 04:03 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Kratom is not gonna be a good idea for sleep. you may feel you can get sleep very easily but its an opioid not to mention quite a stimulating one and opioids provide poor quality sleep though you may feel well rested when you wake up it will catch up on you as the day goes by.
Also ditch the L-Tyrosine, thats a precurser to dopamine and noradrenaline which are the futhest things from sleep inducing hormones.
I know you say weed is too expensive but even a small bit will do good things for getting to sleep. Have you tried antihistamines? Also earlier in the day try and get a bit of aerobic exercise (20 minutes even) if you do not already exerice
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Kinesin, a motor protein, shuttling a vesicle full of cargo such as glucose or even neurotransmitters across a cell. This little guy struts along the microtubule using ATP as fuel.
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Shroomslip
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Re: Large Melatonin doses [Re: Shroomslip]
#22215446 - 09/10/15 04:04 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Also as a side note, my insomnia seemed to skyrocket after a severe head injury. I dunno if this is correlation or causation, but when I was around 13 or so I was jumping on a trampoline and got "super jumped" to 10+ feet and came down on my back, with my head hitting the frame of the trampoline first. For a couple weeks after, it felt as if my brain was sloshing around. Never went to the doctor over it (My grandma's idea of determining medical problems that warranted going to an emergency room was literally if you had a suspected bone she'd squeeze and go "does that hurt" Wtf do you think?!).
But it was around that time that I went from light insomnia to the state I'm at today.
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With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
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Giftofdeprivation
Discerning Vagrant



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Re: Large Melatonin doses [Re: Urist]
#22215464 - 09/10/15 04:15 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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No drug is going to outweigh good sleep hygiene in the long term.
http://sleepfoundation.org/ask-the-expert/sleep-hygiene
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Moonshoe
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Re: Large Melatonin doses [Re: Urist]
#22215500 - 09/10/15 04:37 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I have to tell people this constantly because there is such pervasive misunderstanding of melatonin.
Melatonin is not a sedative. In simple terms, it doesn't actually help you sleep or put you to sleep.
UNLESS you are deficient in it. It is a hormone, not a sedative.
People think it is like a benzo that knocks you out. Its not like that at all. if you are not deficient in it, it wont help you sleep at all.
It is an amazing antioxidant. It protects you from free radical damage and even radiation because its such a potent antioxadant, a cascading antioxidant.
It can also be taken when you need to change your sleep schedule, like if you do shift work and you need to go to sleep in the morning, taking it then can help you sleep because normally your brain releases melatonin at night time.
But generally speaking, you should NOT take melatonin as a sleep aid. A it won't work most of the time and B it is somewhat harmful to be taking especially large doses of a hormone. Many people think doing so can down regulate and unbalance your brains own natural hormone production. Certainly don't take large doses and don't take regularly.
If you are having trouble sleeping, a far better choice is valerian root extract which IS actually a relaxing, sedating hypnotic sleep aid.
Benzos and etizolam can help but reduce the quality of sleep.
Zzzquil (diphenhyrdramine/ sleep-eze) also works well but should not be taken regularly.
Passionflower, L theanine, chamomile tea also all help.
The best thing for insomnia is intense, prolonged, vigorous outdoor exercise during the day.
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Everything I post is fiction.
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Urist
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Re: Large Melatonin doses [Re: Moonshoe]
#22216552 - 09/10/15 11:44 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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T+2h I fell asleep and had an extremely vivid dream.
So all in all it worked decently well for what I intended.
I am not going to stop taking Adderall until I finish college and aI'm not going to stop taking L-Tyrosine until I stop taking Adderall. Dopamine Depletion is fucking terrible.
And yes I've tried Benedryl....that's the first sleep aid everyone tries and it's addictive and decreases the quality of your sleep. Also once you build up a tolerance you risk anticholinergic effects at higher doses....which make it harder to sleep and harder to escape the shadow spiders. So fuck benedryl.
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olson
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Re: Large Melatonin doses [Re: Urist]
#22216809 - 09/10/15 01:01 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I forgot to mention magnesium. Thats really important if you're taking adderall. Amphetamine depletes your magnesium supply and also magnesium acts as a weak NMDA antagonist which will help you sleep and increase the sensitivity of your dopamine receptors ie. it will lower your adderall tolerance.
If you buy it make sure you get magnesium glycinate or magnesium threonate not magnesium oxide.
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Kinesin, a motor protein, shuttling a vesicle full of cargo such as glucose or even neurotransmitters across a cell. This little guy struts along the microtubule using ATP as fuel.
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Urist
The Dwarf



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Re: Large Melatonin doses [Re: olson]
#22217014 - 09/10/15 01:54 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Hmm, I'll order some off amazon right now.
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olson
Stranger

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Re: Large Melatonin doses [Re: Urist]
#22217066 - 09/10/15 02:09 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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It's a good choice 
Just bare in mind the effects are subtle so don't expect anything miraculous but nevertheless its a good thing to take for general health anyway.
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Kinesin, a motor protein, shuttling a vesicle full of cargo such as glucose or even neurotransmitters across a cell. This little guy struts along the microtubule using ATP as fuel.
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Adden

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Re: Large Melatonin doses [Re: olson]
#22217099 - 09/10/15 02:19 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Melatonin, 1.5g GABA, 1g L-Tyrosine, 200mg 5-HTP
Add some kratom and it's a recipe for easiest opiate w/d's. Only really worked for me after day 3. All of these and immodium with weed makes it so much easier.
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Urist
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Re: Large Melatonin doses [Re: Adden]
#22217122 - 09/10/15 02:24 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
olson said: It's a good choice 
Just bare in mind the effects are subtle so don't expect anything miraculous but nevertheless its a good thing to take for general health anyway.
Yeah, it isnt a drug. I tend to notice the effects of supplements over a time period of taking them. D3 was the most noticeable I've tried so far because I have a D3 deficiency and was told to take it by my doctor. I forget to take my D3 though so I ordered a combination supplement of of Magnesium L-Threonate (which supposedly crosses the BBB and improves cognitive function with less laxative effect than other Magnesium supplements), Vitamin D3 and Calcium.
Quote:
Dys said: Melatonin, 1.5g GABA, 1g L-Tyrosine, 200mg 5-HTP
Add some kratom and it's a recipe for easiest opiate w/d's. Only really worked for me after day 3. All of these and immodium with weed makes it so much easier.
Also I have some kratom and Immodium, I'll keep that in mind if I get addicted to opiates. Good info.
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Adden

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Re: Large Melatonin doses [Re: Urist]
#22217127 - 09/10/15 02:26 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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It's a good mixture to have on hand for multiple reasons. Pain, sleep, anxiolytic properties, IBS, etc. Kind of like having benzos on hand when tripping high doses.
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