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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said: Let's look at what started this, Enil said illegals are a boost to our economy, clearly that is not the case
It's actually debatable. It's not clearly the case. Which is why we're debating it and why the sources you keep citing are questionable. If there's a study that isn't flawed that shows that illegals are a threat to our economic or cultural prosperity I'd love to read it.
Seriously... if for no other reason than so I can quit having this debate with you guys every other month.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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hostileuniverse
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Registered: 05/14/15
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: Let's look at what started this, Enil said illegals are a boost to our economy, clearly that is not the case
It's actually debatable. It's not clearly the case. Which is why we're debating it and why the sources you keep citing are questionable. If there's a study that isn't flawed that shows that illegals are a threat to our economic or cultural prosperity I'd love to read it.
Seriously... if for no other reason than so I can quit having this debate with you guys every other month.
So every source that says illegals cost more than they contribute is flawed? Ok then... Nice chatting with you
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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I didn't say that. But everyone I've been presented with so far I've managed to find serious holes in their arguments and methods. But I doubt I've read them all and that doesn't mean one doesn't exist.
Nice chatting with you too! Have a good day HU
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
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hostileuniverse said:
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qman said:
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paperbackwriter said:
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hostileuniverse said: Is this one valid?
http://cis.org/Welfare-Use-Legal-Illegal-Immigrant-Households
It says that illegal immigrants use less welfare than native born citizens while legal immigrants use the most 
And yes, there are flaws in its methodology as well which exaggerate the figures.
http://www.cato.org/blog/center-immigration-studies-report-exaggerates-immigrant-welfare-use-part-2
Illegals are NOT eligible for welfare, but when they have a child born in the US they are now using the child's status to use every social service that exists.
Illegals are supposedly not eligible for jobs here either, are you asserting none of them are working either?
No, the fact of the matter is they still use the social services even when they are NOT technically eligible, just have a child 2 days after you cross the border and then drain the system dry for the next 18 years!!!
Edited by qman (11/05/15 01:22 PM)
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: Let's look at what started this, Enil said illegals are a boost to our economy, clearly that is not the case
It's actually debatable. It's not clearly the case. Which is why we're debating it and why the sources you keep citing are questionable. If there's a study that isn't flawed that shows that illegals are a threat to our economic or cultural prosperity I'd love to read it.
Seriously... if for no other reason than so I can quit having this debate with you guys every other month.
"It's actually debatable."
No it's not, bringing more poor people into a already saturated labor market is NOT good for 99% of US citizens, this is very basic economic sense.
Do they make the rich even richer and the poor even poorer? Yes they do, they also drain an already insolvent social service safety net, they're all leeches that need to be deported.
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qman
Stranger

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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: qman]
#22481208 - 11/05/15 01:37 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Is this the culture that some of you guys find so wonderful? 
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: qman]
#22481216 - 11/05/15 01:40 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said: "It's actually debatable."
No it's not, bringing more poor people into a already saturated labor market is NOT good for 99% of US citizens, this is very basic economic sense.
Do they make the rich even richer and the poor even poorer? Yes they do, they also drain an already insolvent social service safety net, they're all leeches that need to be deported.
I hear where you're coming from qman. But right now you're wrong. U.S. workers generally do not compete with illegals for jobs. As you've said again and again, they're poor, uneducated, and generally less well adjusted to our culture than your average U.S. worker.
Does that mean we should open the borders? No (and by the way, this isn't Sanders position either, in spite of your allusions to the contrary).
Here's a paper. Immigration and its Effects on U.S. Labor Markets. I think it's the fairest assessment of the immigration situation that's been posted in the last few pages.
You guys can judge for yourselves based on the papers conclusion.
Quote:
U.S. immigration policy has simply become too lax, and the repercussions are becoming quite evident. While immigrants may not cause a lasting negative impact on the economy, America simply cannot afford to shelter 400 million people come the year 2050. The job market is becoming more selective, and too many are crossing the border without a job in hand and most importantly, lacking the human capital required to succeed. Barry Harstein, an attorney specializing in labor-relations, said, “I believe that we will see some definite changes in immigration policy, and that the number arriving with higher education and guaranteed employment will soon make up the majority of immigrants entering our country.”
The fact remains that immigrants can and will continue to have positive impacts on our economy. However, the growth in labor markets (particularly the unskilled) can continue only so much and will eventually become over-saturated. If and when the U.S. economy falls into decline, the unemployment of these workers may have devastating repercussions. While the nation as a whole may not experience these effects, heavy immigrant populated states can expect to see increases in unemployment, crime, and welfare costs (Jaeger). These are problems that must be addressed now rather than later. As the demand for unskilled labor slows, so must their increasing supply. The difficulty will forever rest in the remembrance of America, as a “Land of Immigrants.”
https://www.iwu.edu/economics/PPE07/kris.pdf
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: qman]
#22481222 - 11/05/15 01:42 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Those kids seem to speak English just fine.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 1 day, 59 minutes
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said:
Quote:
qman said: "It's actually debatable."
No it's not, bringing more poor people into a already saturated labor market is NOT good for 99% of US citizens, this is very basic economic sense.
Do they make the rich even richer and the poor even poorer? Yes they do, they also drain an already insolvent social service safety net, they're all leeches that need to be deported.
I hear where you're coming from qman. But right now you're wrong. U.S. workers generally do not compete with illegals for jobs. As you've said again and again, they're poor, uneducated, and generally less well adjusted to our culture than your average U.S. worker.
Does that mean we should open the borders? No (and by the way, this isn't Sanders position either, in spite of your allusions to the contrary).
Here's a paper. Immigration and its Effects on U.S. Labor Markets. I think it's the fairest assessment of the immigration situation that's been posted in the last few pages.
You guys can judge for yourselves based on the papers conclusion.
Quote:
U.S. immigration policy has simply become too lax, and the repercussions are becoming quite evident. While immigrants may not cause a lasting negative impact on the economy, America simply cannot afford to shelter 400 million people come the year 2050. The job market is becoming more selective, and too many are crossing the border without a job in hand and most importantly, lacking the human capital required to succeed. Barry Harstein, an attorney specializing in labor-relations, said, “I believe that we will see some definite changes in immigration policy, and that the number arriving with higher education and guaranteed employment will soon make up the majority of immigrants entering our country.”
The fact remains that immigrants can and will continue to have positive impacts on our economy. However, the growth in labor markets (particularly the unskilled) can continue only so much and will eventually become over-saturated. If and when the U.S. economy falls into decline, the unemployment of these workers may have devastating repercussions. While the nation as a whole may not experience these effects, heavy immigrant populated states can expect to see increases in unemployment, crime, and welfare costs (Jaeger). These are problems that must be addressed now rather than later. As the demand for unskilled labor slows, so must their increasing supply. The difficulty will forever rest in the remembrance of America, as a “Land of Immigrants.”
https://www.iwu.edu/economics/PPE07/kris.pdf
That's a fair article, but the problems are already here, it's only going to get worst down the road.
I have no issue with LEGAL immigration, not this flooding of unskilled/uneducated group of people that jump on the criminal and social services bandwagon nonsense.
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qman
Stranger

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Quote:
paperbackwriter said: Those kids seem to speak English just fine.
Do you really want people like that in our country? The attitude is disgusting. It's no surprise Trump is #1 in the polls.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,474
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: qman]
#22481276 - 11/05/15 01:58 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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You want them deported for their attitude? The brown people should learn their places, eh? Your bias is becoming more clear with every post you make.
I find your attitude of "they're all leeches that need to be deported" to be beyond disgusting. I also find your theory that latin American culture is primitive to be wholly ignorant.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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qman
Stranger

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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: Enlil]
#22481330 - 11/05/15 02:18 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Enlil said: You want them deported for their attitude? The brown people should learn their places, eh? Your bias is becoming more clear with every post you make.
I find your attitude of "they're all leeches that need to be deported" to be beyond disgusting. I also find your theory that latin American culture is primitive to be wholly ignorant.
Aren't people that enter the US illegally breaking the law? Hasn't every developed nation done away with the "anchor baby" policy except the US and Canada? If I was on that end of the equation, I would be very grateful and respectful at this point instead of being aggressive, and hostile towards the ruling class.
I never said "latin American culture is primitive", I said these are primitive people entering a sophisticated economy and culture, and that's never a good outcome.
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Webster10
Up like Trump


Registered: 12/03/13
Posts: 9,966
Loc: Strawberry Fields
Last seen: 6 years, 2 months
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: Enlil]
#22481339 - 11/05/15 02:21 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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illegals are a net drain.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,474
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: qman]
#22481353 - 11/05/15 02:25 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said: Aren't people that enter the US illegally breaking the law? Hasn't every developed nation done away with the "anchor baby" policy except the US and Canada? If I was on that end of the equation, I would be very grateful and respectful at this point instead of being aggressive, and hostile towards the ruling class.
Wow...so much wrong here. Birthright Citizenship is a Constitutional right...not a policy. Second, "grateful and respectful" to the ruling class? I don't even know what to say about that. If that's how you really feel, I can't even imagine why you're on this siteQuote:
I never said "latin American culture is primitive", I said these are primitive people entering a sophisticated economy and culture, and that's never a good outcome.
That's even worse. Mexican people aren't primitive. You just think they are because you've convinced yourself that you are part of the superior race.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,474
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: Webster10]
#22481356 - 11/05/15 02:26 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Webster10 said: illegals are a net drain.
Most Americans are. What's your point?
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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Shroom Detective
Stranger
Registered: 07/02/14
Posts: 1,699
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: qman]
#22481423 - 11/05/15 02:51 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Aren't people that enter the US illegally breaking the law?
Affirmative.
-------------------- "I, Falcon91Wolvrn03, am a BIG FAT LIAR; so much so, that my pants are on fire."
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Shroom Detective
Stranger
Registered: 07/02/14
Posts: 1,699
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: Enlil]
#22481430 - 11/05/15 02:52 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
Webster10 said: illegals are a net drain.
Most Americans are...
I have no issue with those Americans being deported with the illegals, as well.
-------------------- "I, Falcon91Wolvrn03, am a BIG FAT LIAR; so much so, that my pants are on fire."
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,474
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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So are people who don't pay their phone bills on time....
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,474
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Quote:
Shroom Detective said:
Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
Webster10 said: illegals are a net drain.
Most Americans are...
I have no issue with those Americans being deported with the illegals, as well. 
You're almost certainly one of them.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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Shroom Detective
Stranger
Registered: 07/02/14
Posts: 1,699
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: Webster10]
#22481448 - 11/05/15 02:56 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Webster10 said: illegals are a net drain.
-------------------- "I, Falcon91Wolvrn03, am a BIG FAT LIAR; so much so, that my pants are on fire."
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