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hostileuniverse
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Registered: 05/14/15
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said: Latinos includes legals and illegals.
And it's really not my place to find a source for qman. He made the claim that 'many illegals don't graduate anyway'. Where's his source?
Speaking of, still waiting on a source for how they destroy the economy and our culture.

Here ya go!
http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2013/05/the-fiscal-cost-of-unlawful-immigrants-and-amnesty-to-the-us-taxpayer
The culture thing is not my bag, liberals are doing enough to destroy that in this country.
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said: I understand that many of them come from far more extreme poverty than I did. My point stands. There's parents that would have just as soon I not hang out with their kids because I was 'poorly' adjusted. Or prefer that I go to a different school altogether so I don't destroy their kids 'culture'.
Also see my edit?
*edit*
Quote:
qman said: Many don't even graduate HS, so where's the return on investment? There isn't any there.
So I googled CA HS graduation rates. Most hispanics/latinos graduate.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/whats-behind-falling-latino-dropout-rates-n232986
"Julian Vasquez Helig, a professor at Cal State University thinks the drop out and graduation data may be overstating the success because schools are now reporting data in a different way and have "gotten really savvy at hiding students."
They are just pushing them through the system, that's not a measurement of success. I talked to students that went to a high school with a high Hispanic population (33%), the Hispanic students all took classes that were taught in Spanish and then graduated, what a joke. They NEVER took classes with the other students.
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: qman]
#22480578 - 11/05/15 10:45 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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There was a lot of other opinions in the article as to what could be going on. So I don't see how the one guys opinion that matches your own is the point of fact that leads you to this conclusion.
Quote:
qman said: They are just pushing them through the system, that's not a measurement of success.
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: Here ya go!
http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2013/05/the-fiscal-cost-of-unlawful-immigrants-and-amnesty-to-the-us-taxpayer
Thanks buddy! Sadly the Heritage foundation isn't one of the best sources to use. Their bias is deep and well known and it shows in their methodology. Here's a couple of criticisms I found of that study. I'm sure there's plenty more.
http://www.factcheck.org/2013/06/the-immigration-bills-6-3-trillion-price-tag-2/
http://keithhennessey.com/2013/05/09/heritage-immigration-study-problems/
Care to try again?
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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Count of Sabugosa
Nerdy floater



Registered: 08/20/15
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Last seen: 7 months, 26 days
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Yes, we asked for reliable sources...
-------------------- In Hebrew, the words "wine" and "secret" hold the same numerologic value. When wine comes in, secrets spill out. Do you think the person who said that knew mushrooms? When mushrooms come in... Is there anything beyond a secret?
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said: There was a lot of other opinions in the article as to what could be going on. So I don't see how the one guys opinion that matches your own is the point of fact that leads you to this conclusion.
Quote:
qman said: They are just pushing them through the system, that's not a measurement of success.
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: Here ya go!
http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2013/05/the-fiscal-cost-of-unlawful-immigrants-and-amnesty-to-the-us-taxpayer
Thanks buddy! Sadly the Heritage foundation isn't one of the best sources to use. Their bias is deep and well known and it shows in their methodology. Here's a couple of criticisms I found of that study. I'm sure there's plenty more.
http://www.factcheck.org/2013/06/the-immigration-bills-6-3-trillion-price-tag-2/
http://keithhennessey.com/2013/05/09/heritage-immigration-study-problems/
Care to try again?
Nope, heritage is just as respectable and valid as any of your sources...
This is what libs do, ask for a source, when provided, they come up with excuses that it's not valid. I'm sorry your left wing liberal socialist Marxist statist sources don't research these subjects or feel the need to report honestly on them
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,474
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Your source is valid, sure. No one is saying that it isn't a source. People have simply presented criticisms of your source and it's methodology. You're free to do the same about theirs. If you can't, however, then we know you're basing your entire argument on a source that has been found unreliable. You're entitled to do that, of course, but it's not the best way to win an argument or persuade people.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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hostileuniverse
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: Enlil]
#22480705 - 11/05/15 11:19 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Your source is valid, sure. No one is saying that it isn't a source. People have simply presented criticisms of your source and it's methodology. You're free to do the same about theirs. If you can't, however, then we know you're basing your entire argument on a source that has been found unreliable. You're entitled to do that, of course, but it's not the best way to win an argument or persuade people.
Is this one valid?
http://cis.org/Welfare-Use-Legal-Illegal-Immigrant-Households
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,474
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Of course. They're all valid. Reliability and validity are two different things.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: Enlil]
#22480736 - 11/05/15 11:28 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Of course. They're all valid. Reliability and validity are two different things.
How about one from our benevolent loving kind considerate govt.?
http://www.gao.gov/products/HEHS-98-30
Reliable? Valid? Please explain why not...
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Aside from being almost 20 years old?
I'm looking over your other one by the way.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,474
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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This one says it only costs about a billion a year in welfare to feed U.S. Citizen children of illegal immigrants. Sounds like a bargain to me.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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Count of Sabugosa
Nerdy floater



Registered: 08/20/15
Posts: 939
Last seen: 7 months, 26 days
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Also reliable source:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/17/magazine/do-illegal-immigrants-actually-hurt-the-us-economy.html?_r=0
This one is biased, but it is a different angle, and those facts can be verified through government sources.
http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/high-school/top-10-myths-about-immigration
See, the issue is not that Dems are right and the GOP is wrong. The issue is that we pretty much would agree on some things we want in common, but only if both sides of the debate consider all angles and variables of the subject at hand.
Yes, it is a fact that these numbers are were right (at least if you trust the government...), but does it hurt the US as the GOP leading candidates and other pundit-pukers say?
BTW - Current sources http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2015/04/16/Study-Finds-Illegal-Immigrants-Pay-118B-Taxes
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/07/24/5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/
Oh, man, that's right... 1997... wow... that was not cool, dude lol
-------------------- In Hebrew, the words "wine" and "secret" hold the same numerologic value. When wine comes in, secrets spill out. Do you think the person who said that knew mushrooms? When mushrooms come in... Is there anything beyond a secret?
Edited by Count of Sabugosa (11/05/15 11:39 AM)
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



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Well, I guess I'm beat, y'all are just too damn smart for me...
These numbers are easily found, I don't understand why y'all would rather insult and belittle me, rather than refuting the numbers. I guess it's all you left...
http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/may/6/report-legalizing-illegal-immigrants-cost-6-3-t/?page=all
http://mobile.wnd.com/2015/08/71-of-illegals-with-kids-collect-welfare/
http://www.rense.com/general81/dtli.htm
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said: Is this one valid?
http://cis.org/Welfare-Use-Legal-Illegal-Immigrant-Households
It says that illegal immigrants use less welfare than native born citizens while legal immigrants use the most 
And yes, there are flaws in its methodology as well which exaggerate the figures.
http://www.cato.org/blog/center-immigration-studies-report-exaggerates-immigrant-welfare-use-part-2
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said: Aside from being almost 20 years old?
I'm looking over your other one by the way.
Arent you the one who cited a 40yr old study to support your climate hoax claims?
If not, apologies,
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said: Well, I guess I'm beat, y'all are just too damn smart for me...
These numbers are easily found, I don't understand why y'all would rather insult and belittle me, rather than refuting the numbers. I guess it's all you left...
http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/may/6/report-legalizing-illegal-immigrants-cost-6-3-t/?page=all
http://mobile.wnd.com/2015/08/71-of-illegals-with-kids-collect-welfare/
http://www.rense.com/general81/dtli.htm
Just because something is 'common knowledge' doesn't mean it's true. It was easy to backup the claim that the earth was flat at one point in time. 
And I don't think anyone is insulting or belittling you. I'm sorry you're so attached to this view of the world that you feel that way
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
paperbackwriter said: Aside from being almost 20 years old?
I'm looking over your other one by the way.
Arent you the one who cited a 40yr old study to support your climate hoax claims?
If not, apologies,
You're strawmanning. And no.
I cited a forty year old quote that showed that EXxon knew about climate change forty years ago and covered it up.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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qman
Stranger

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Quote:
paperbackwriter said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: Is this one valid?
http://cis.org/Welfare-Use-Legal-Illegal-Immigrant-Households
It says that illegal immigrants use less welfare than native born citizens while legal immigrants use the most 
And yes, there are flaws in its methodology as well which exaggerate the figures.
http://www.cato.org/blog/center-immigration-studies-report-exaggerates-immigrant-welfare-use-part-2
Illegals are NOT eligible for welfare, but when they have a child born in the US they are now using the child's status to use every social service that exists.
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: Is this one valid?
http://cis.org/Welfare-Use-Legal-Illegal-Immigrant-Households
It says that illegal immigrants use less welfare than native born citizens while legal immigrants use the most 
And yes, there are flaws in its methodology as well which exaggerate the figures.
http://www.cato.org/blog/center-immigration-studies-report-exaggerates-immigrant-welfare-use-part-2
Let's look at what started this, Enil said illegals are a boost to our economy, clearly that is not the case,
My point is our welfare should go to support our own before trying to take care of everyone else...
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: qman]
#22480826 - 11/05/15 11:50 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
paperbackwriter said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: Is this one valid?
http://cis.org/Welfare-Use-Legal-Illegal-Immigrant-Households
It says that illegal immigrants use less welfare than native born citizens while legal immigrants use the most 
And yes, there are flaws in its methodology as well which exaggerate the figures.
http://www.cato.org/blog/center-immigration-studies-report-exaggerates-immigrant-welfare-use-part-2
Illegals are NOT eligible for welfare, but when they have a child born in the US they are now using the child's status to use every social service that exists.
Illegals are supposedly not eligible for jobs here either, are you asserting none of them are working either?
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