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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #22433087 - 10/25/15 06:07 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

You cite one time the auto shutoffs failed. They don't always fail, they should never fail. Why is it you never talk about the many train derailments?

Besides the pipeline being safer, and also less pollution, it brings jobs to usa in areas that need them badly. Why is the left so cavalier about jobs? You want to keep all the illegals who drive down wages and you want to sink the pipeline.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22433176 - 10/25/15 06:27 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
You cite one time the auto shutoffs failed. They don't always fail, they should never fail. Why is it you never talk about the many train derailments?

Besides the pipeline being safer, and also less pollution, it brings jobs to usa in areas that need them badly. Why is the left so cavalier about jobs? You want to keep all the illegals who drive down wages and you want to sink the pipeline.




I was talking about derailments.  I was using them to contrast pipes in fact.  You brought up shutoffs.  I googled to find out how long they've been around and found that they've clearly been around longer than my 'old' study.  The fact that it failed was anecdotal.

Show me the permanent jobs the Keystone will create.

And look, frankly I think they're both fucking terrible.  Sure trains produce air pollution.  The fact is I don't want either air pollution or a spill in my backyard.  Canada can ship it's own oil out from it's own borders.  I don't want them piping that shit by train, boat, or pipe down by my house so they can sell it in China.

If you want to talk permanent jobs how about we tell Koch and EXxon to fuck off with their pipes and start investing in clean energy solutions?  We can pay for it with the lawsuit we file against both of them for lying to us about global warming and put the whole country to work.  Even the illegals!


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #22433585 - 10/25/15 08:07 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Shutoff valves can be made to be nearly 100% reliable. Much much more reliable than trains.

>Show me the permanent jobs the Keystone will create.

It will create a shitton of temp jobs lasting for years building it. That alone is a shot in the arm. Then there are the jobs monitoring the line, loading tankers, etc. Those are perm jobs.

You sound like you went off the tracks with this part.

>If you want to talk permanent jobs how about we tell Koch and EXxon to fuck off with their pipes and start investing in clean energy solutions?  We can pay for it with the lawsuit we file against both of them for lying to us about global warming and put the whole country to work.  Even the illegals!

Did you know that trump ordered several pacs that sprang up not to use his name and to return all donations they gathered. He does not want dark money in his campaign, he doesn't need it.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22433712 - 10/25/15 08:52 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

No one is stopping anyone from investing in clean energy, it's great, why the fuck does the govt need to waste billions on it? Arent you guys against corporate welfare? Or is it ok if it fits your agenda?


--------------------
http://www.countdowntotrump.com





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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22434784 - 10/26/15 06:32 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

2000 is not a shit ton.

Shut off valves being nearly 100% safe is irrelevant if we're not mandating their use.

HU who said shit about corporate welfare?  You assume when I say we should build infrastructure and green energy and that a corporation should be the beneficiary?  How about the people benefit.  Plenty of towns and states own a portion of their utilities.  Why is energy the exception?

Oh and please tell me how wanting clean air and water for my grandkids is an 'agenda'.

:ifindthisboring:


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #22434884 - 10/26/15 07:25 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

So the 500 million given to solyndra that ended up going bankrupt? That's was what? A community reinvestment?

There is nothing wrong with wanting clean air and water, it is far more productive to work with the energy companies to insure this than against them


--------------------
http://www.countdowntotrump.com





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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22434931 - 10/26/15 07:42 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I'm not advocating giving money to anyone.  I'm not a capitalist.  Clean energy is something we all need and all benefit from.  We can invest that money directly.

As far as working with energy companies...  EXxon and company have been pushing denial for so long they should be held accountable.  Their actions have endangered us all.  No.  I don't believe we should be working with them.


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #22435067 - 10/26/15 08:43 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Appeasement doesn't work, this is something a conservative should be able to appreciate.


--------------------


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #22435504 - 10/26/15 11:01 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

>2000 is not a shit ton

Whatever that means.

>Shut off valves being nearly 100% safe is irrelevant if we're not mandating their use.

So you are calling for them being mandated? I agree, I thought they already were, maybe they are.

>please tell me how wanting clean air and water for my grandkids is an 'agenda'

There is nothing wrong with that but clearly its an agenda.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22435527 - 10/26/15 11:11 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

They're not mandated Stoney.  I said that on the last page.

Quote:

We just proposed a law that would increase the use of leak-detection systems and require companies to more closely analyze inspection results but would not mandate the use of automatic shutoff systems.




Note that's a proposal, not anything that's passed.


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #22435602 - 10/26/15 11:33 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I think we should try to move way from fossil fuels, but it sounds like pipelines are a preferable way to transport oil. My big problem with the Keystone pipeline is that Americans receive very little benefit from it, and it paves the way for some of the dirtiest oil on the planted to be mined and used on a very large scale.

The time has come for us to start focusing on clean energy.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22435612 - 10/26/15 11:37 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
I think we should try to move way from fossil fuels, but it sounds like pipelines are a preferable way to transport oil. My big problem with the Keystone pipeline is that Americans receive very little benefit from it, and it paves the way for some of the dirtiest oil on the planted to be mined and used on a very large scale.

The time has come for us to start focusing on clean energy.




Lots people and companies are focusing on green energy, there is no one advocating shutting it down, however, there is no reason the govt should be playing favorites or picking winners and losers, let the free market decide!


--------------------
http://www.countdowntotrump.com





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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22435682 - 10/26/15 11:52 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

How do you feel about cigarettes hostileuniverse?  Would you agree they're a threat to public health?


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #22437366 - 10/26/15 07:30 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Free market says cigarettes are good!


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #22437397 - 10/26/15 07:38 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

paperbackwriter said:
I'm not advocating giving money to anyone.  I'm not a capitalist.  Clean energy is something we all need and all benefit from.  We can invest that money directly.

As far as working with energy companies...  EXxon and company have been pushing denial for so long they should be held accountable.  Their actions have endangered us all.  No.  I don't believe we should be working with them.





What is Exxon doing to endanger us? :popcorn:


--------------------


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: starfire_xes]
    #22437454 - 10/26/15 07:54 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

>What is Exxon doing to endanger us?

The bastards are selling us oil and gas which we need. How dare they!


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22438211 - 10/26/15 10:52 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
I think we should try to move way from fossil fuels, but it sounds like pipelines are a preferable way to transport oil. My big problem with the Keystone pipeline is that Americans receive very little benefit from it, and it paves the way for some of the dirtiest oil on the planted to be mined and used on a very large scale.

The time has come for us to start focusing on clean energy.




Lots people and companies are focusing on green energy, there is no one advocating shutting it down, however, there is no reason the govt should be playing favorites or picking winners and losers, let the free market decide!




If the government is picking ANYONE as a 'favorite', it's been the oil companies. They get more welfare than almost any other industry!

Yes, the government should stop subsidizing energy giants. Finally something we agree on :wink:


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: starfire_xes]
    #22438213 - 10/26/15 10:53 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
Quote:

paperbackwriter said:
I'm not advocating giving money to anyone.  I'm not a capitalist.  Clean energy is something we all need and all benefit from.  We can invest that money directly.

As far as working with energy companies...  EXxon and company have been pushing denial for so long they should be held accountable.  Their actions have endangered us all.  No.  I don't believe we should be working with them.





What is Exxon doing to endanger us? :popcorn:




I believe it says right in the post you quoted! lmao!


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Offlinestarfire_xes
I Am 'They'
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Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22438292 - 10/26/15 11:21 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

starfire_xes said:
Quote:

paperbackwriter said:
I'm not advocating giving money to anyone.  I'm not a capitalist.  Clean energy is something we all need and all benefit from.  We can invest that money directly.

As far as working with energy companies...  EXxon and company have been pushing denial for so long they should be held accountable.  Their actions have endangered us all.  No.  I don't believe we should be working with them.





What is Exxon doing to endanger us? :popcorn:




I believe it says right in the post you quoted! lmao!





I'll ask again, how is Exxon endangering us, and what proof do you have?


--------------------


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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: starfire_xes]
    #22439163 - 10/27/15 07:41 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

There's proof, google it.  They've known the link between carbon and global warming longer than anyone.

Much like the tobacco companies, that knew smoking was dangerous and covered it up.  We held the tobacco companies accountable, we should do the same with EXxon.


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley


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