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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Quote:
burgerbrain said:
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paperbackwriter said: You're mixing some of Plato in with Socrates. Socrates had some much faith in democracy he allowed his fellow Athenians to put him to death. Plato's Republic, and many of his views on democracy, was a reaction to Socrates' execution.
puppetbackwriter is wrong again, per usual. The entire txt is from Biography.com, poor puppetback.
Socrates believed that philosophy should achieve practical results for the greater well-being of society. He attempted to establish an ethical system based on human reason rather than theological doctrine. He pointed out that human choice was motivated by the desire for happiness. Ultimate wisdom comes from knowing oneself. The more a person knows, the greater his or her ability to reason and make choices that will bring true happiness. Socrates believed that this translated into politics with the best form of government being neither a tyranny nor a democracy. Instead, government worked best when ruled by individuals who had the greatest ability, knowledge, and virtue and possessed a complete understanding of themselves. For Socrates, Athens was a classroom and he went about asking questions of the elite and common man alike, seeking to arrive at political and ethical truths. Socrates didn’t lecture about what he knew. In fact, he claimed to be ignorant because he had no ideas, but wise because he recognized his own ignorance. He asked questions of his fellow Athenians in a dialectic method (the Socratic Method) which compelled the audience to think through a problem to a logical conclusion. Sometimes the answer seemed so obvious, it made Socrates's opponents look foolish. For this, he was admired by some and vilified by others. http://www.biography.com/people/socrates-9488126
We have none of Socrates writings, we only know about him through Plato and some of his other students. His actions however suggest that he did support democracy. He refused orders under the Thirty Tyrants but allowed himself to be executed by the Athenian democracy in spite of having friends that wanted to help him escape.
From wikipedia.
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Socrates' opposition to democracy is often denied, and the question is one of the biggest philosophical debates when trying to determine exactly what Socrates believed. The strongest argument of those who claim Socrates did not actually believe in the idea of philosopher kings is that the view is expressed no earlier than Plato's Republic, which is widely considered one of Plato's "Middle" dialogues and not representative of the historical Socrates' views. Furthermore, according to Plato's Apology of Socrates, an "early" dialogue, Socrates refused to pursue conventional politics; he often stated he could not look into other's matters or tell people how to live their lives when he did not yet understand how to live his own. He believed he was a philosopher engaged in the pursuit of Truth, and did not claim to know it fully. Socrates' acceptance of his death sentence after his conviction can also be seen to support this view. It is often claimed much of the anti-democratic leanings are from Plato, who was never able to overcome his disgust at what was done to his teacher. In any case, it is clear Socrates thought the rule of the Thirty Tyrants was also objectionable; when called before them to assist in the arrest of a fellow Athenian, Socrates refused and narrowly escaped death before the Tyrants were overthrown. He did, however, fulfill his duty to serve as Prytanis when a trial of a group of Generals who presided over a disastrous naval campaign were judged; even then, he maintained an uncompromising attitude, being one of those who refused to proceed in a manner not supported by the laws, despite intense pressure. Judging by his actions, he considered the rule of the Thirty Tyrants less legitimate than the Democratic Senate that sentenced him to death.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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burgerbrain
Freedom Lover



Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 962
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said:
Quote:
burgerbrain said:
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paperbackwriter said: You're mixing some of Plato in with Socrates. Socrates had some much faith in democracy he allowed his fellow Athenians to put him to death. Plato's Republic, and many of his views on democracy, was a reaction to Socrates' execution.
puppetbackwriter is wrong again, per usual. The entire txt is from Biography.com, poor puppetback.
Socrates believed that philosophy should achieve practical results for the greater well-being of society. He attempted to establish an ethical system based on human reason rather than theological doctrine. He pointed out that human choice was motivated by the desire for happiness. Ultimate wisdom comes from knowing oneself. The more a person knows, the greater his or her ability to reason and make choices that will bring true happiness. Socrates believed that this translated into politics with the best form of government being neither a tyranny nor a democracy. Instead, government worked best when ruled by individuals who had the greatest ability, knowledge, and virtue and possessed a complete understanding of themselves. For Socrates, Athens was a classroom and he went about asking questions of the elite and common man alike, seeking to arrive at political and ethical truths. Socrates didn’t lecture about what he knew. In fact, he claimed to be ignorant because he had no ideas, but wise because he recognized his own ignorance. He asked questions of his fellow Athenians in a dialectic method (the Socratic Method) which compelled the audience to think through a problem to a logical conclusion. Sometimes the answer seemed so obvious, it made Socrates's opponents look foolish. For this, he was admired by some and vilified by others. http://www.biography.com/people/socrates-9488126
We have none of Socrates writings, we only know about him through Plato and some of his other students. His actions however suggest that he did support democracy. He refused orders under the Thirty Tyrants but allowed himself to be executed by the Athenian democracy in spite of having friends that wanted to help him escape.
Maybe you should write a letter to biography.com and let them know that they need to fix their website?
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,347
Last seen: 14 minutes, 44 seconds
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Quote:
burgerbrain said:
Quote:
paperbackwriter said:
Quote:
burgerbrain said:
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paperbackwriter said: You're mixing some of Plato in with Socrates. Socrates had some much faith in democracy he allowed his fellow Athenians to put him to death. Plato's Republic, and many of his views on democracy, was a reaction to Socrates' execution.
puppetbackwriter is wrong again, per usual. The entire txt is from Biography.com, poor puppetback.
Socrates believed that philosophy should achieve practical results for the greater well-being of society. He attempted to establish an ethical system based on human reason rather than theological doctrine. He pointed out that human choice was motivated by the desire for happiness. Ultimate wisdom comes from knowing oneself. The more a person knows, the greater his or her ability to reason and make choices that will bring true happiness. Socrates believed that this translated into politics with the best form of government being neither a tyranny nor a democracy. Instead, government worked best when ruled by individuals who had the greatest ability, knowledge, and virtue and possessed a complete understanding of themselves. For Socrates, Athens was a classroom and he went about asking questions of the elite and common man alike, seeking to arrive at political and ethical truths. Socrates didn’t lecture about what he knew. In fact, he claimed to be ignorant because he had no ideas, but wise because he recognized his own ignorance. He asked questions of his fellow Athenians in a dialectic method (the Socratic Method) which compelled the audience to think through a problem to a logical conclusion. Sometimes the answer seemed so obvious, it made Socrates's opponents look foolish. For this, he was admired by some and vilified by others. http://www.biography.com/people/socrates-9488126
We have none of Socrates writings, we only know about him through Plato and some of his other students. His actions however suggest that he did support democracy. He refused orders under the Thirty Tyrants but allowed himself to be executed by the Athenian democracy in spite of having friends that wanted to help him escape.
Maybe you should write a letter to biography.com and let them know that they need to fix their website?
Maybe you should. You're the one who uses them as a source.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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burgerbrain
Freedom Lover



Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 962
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
burgerbrain said:
Quote:
paperbackwriter said:
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burgerbrain said:
Socrates believed that philosophy should achieve practical results for the greater well-being of society. He attempted to establish an ethical system based on human reason rather than theological doctrine. He pointed out that human choice was motivated by the desire for happiness. Ultimate wisdom comes from knowing oneself. The more a person knows, the greater his or her ability to reason and make choices that will bring true happiness. Socrates believed that this translated into politics with the best form of government being neither a tyranny nor a democracy. Instead, government worked best when ruled by individuals who had the greatest ability, knowledge, and virtue and possessed a complete understanding of themselves. For Socrates, Athens was a classroom and he went about asking questions of the elite and common man alike, seeking to arrive at political and ethical truths. Socrates didn’t lecture about what he knew. In fact, he claimed to be ignorant because he had no ideas, but wise because he recognized his own ignorance. He asked questions of his fellow Athenians in a dialectic method (the Socratic Method) which compelled the audience to think through a problem to a logical conclusion. Sometimes the answer seemed so obvious, it made Socrates's opponents look foolish. For this, he was admired by some and vilified by others. http://www.biography.com/people/socrates-9488126
We have none of Socrates writings, we only know about him through Plato and some of his other students. His actions however suggest that he did support democracy. He refused orders under the Thirty Tyrants but allowed himself to be executed by the Athenian democracy in spite of having friends that wanted to help him escape.
Maybe you should write a letter to biography.com and let them know that they need to fix their website?
Maybe you should. You're the one who uses them as a source.
I don't refute biography.com, that's a job for you and your friend.
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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I'm not using it as my only source or even as my source at all so why would I bother writing them just because you found something on the internet to support your worldview?
I've studied quite a bit of Western Philosophy. Socrates either didn't write shit down or we've lost all of his writings. Many of his supposed anti-democratic views come from Plato's writings. The same Plato who watched his mentor get executed by a democratic government and understandably had a shitty view of democracy.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,347
Last seen: 14 minutes, 44 seconds
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I find it funny that we're even still talking about Socrates, given that your point regarding him had absolutely nothing to do with the discussion anyway. You clearly know nothing about Socrates, so you cut and pasted a bunch of shit and then said 'There! I've defended my argument', when it had nothing to do with the discussion whatsoever!!! lmao!!
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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burgerbrain
Freedom Lover



Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 962
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said: I'm not using it as my only source or even as my source at all so why would I bother writing them just because you found something on the internet to support your worldview?
I've studied quite a bit of Western Philosophy. Socrates either didn't write shit down or we've lost all of his writings. Many of his supposed anti-democratic views come from Plato's writings. The same Plato who watched his mentor get executed by a democratic government and understandably had a shitty view of democracy.
It was just a suggestion to write them because you were so angry that they are misrepresenting Socrates.
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,347
Last seen: 14 minutes, 44 seconds
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Quote:
burgerbrain said:
Quote:
paperbackwriter said: I'm not using it as my only source or even as my source at all so why would I bother writing them just because you found something on the internet to support your worldview?
I've studied quite a bit of Western Philosophy. Socrates either didn't write shit down or we've lost all of his writings. Many of his supposed anti-democratic views come from Plato's writings. The same Plato who watched his mentor get executed by a democratic government and understandably had a shitty view of democracy.
It was just a suggestion to write them because you were so angry that they are misrepresenting Socrates.
I don't think he was angry. He was just pointing out a discrepancy in your "argument?" that made no sense in the context of this thread anyway.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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burgerbrain
Freedom Lover



Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 962
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
burgerbrain said:
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paperbackwriter said: I'm not using it as my only source or even as my source at all so why would I bother writing them just because you found something on the internet to support your worldview?
I've studied quite a bit of Western Philosophy. Socrates either didn't write shit down or we've lost all of his writings. Many of his supposed anti-democratic views come from Plato's writings. The same Plato who watched his mentor get executed by a democratic government and understandably had a shitty view of democracy.
It was just a suggestion to write them because you were so angry that they are misrepresenting Socrates.
I don't think he was angry. He was just pointing out a discrepancy in your "argument?" that made no sense in the context of this thread anyway.
My argument was that comparing Marx to Socrates is like comparing Land Mines to Sea Turtles
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,347
Last seen: 14 minutes, 44 seconds
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Quote:
burgerbrain said: My argument was that comparing Marx to Socrates is like comparing Land Mines to Sea Turtles
Ok, then you're argument is a terrible one lol! The way you presented it made it appear as though you believe a snippet of cut-paste biography about Socrates illustrated some point. It doesn't... at all! lol
Marx and Socrates are both world renowned philosophers.
Here's the real point. Pay attention here. This is where we started before you ran off on some... ludicrous tangent. Really, stay focused:
The fact that something was said 100 years ago, doesn't make it irrelevant. That's the point I was trying to make.
Here's a lesson in critical thinking: If you want to argue against that point, you would want to formulate an argument that everything said 100 years ago is irrelevant. There's no need to prove whether or not Socrates and Marx are similar in any way, shape, or form.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
Edited by Bigbadwooof (10/09/15 10:20 AM)
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 2 hours, 26 minutes
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,347
Last seen: 14 minutes, 44 seconds
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: qman]
#22373086 - 10/13/15 12:15 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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qman said: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/10/13/that-passionate-young-woman-who-questioned-donald-trump-in-new-hampshire-shes-a-volunteer-for-jeb-bush/
Trump destroys this young woman who tries to verbally attack him. 
That's funny. What a stupid twat. Of course she's a Jeb Bush staffer. Fucking idiot >.<
If you're going to ask a question to put someone on the spot, you better have some ammunition behind that question, and you better ask it correctly.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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I just wish we could watch trump and BS debate, that's gonna be epic! (If it happens)
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,347
Last seen: 14 minutes, 44 seconds
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said: I just wish we could watch trump and BS debate, that's gonna be epic! (If it happens)
It very well might. The wildest election in US history lmao!
I said before this thing even kicked off that it was going to be a crazy fucking circus.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Stonehenge
Alt Center

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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The evil powers that be, the big shots behind the scenes, are furiously working to get the election back on track so that only sold out whores are on both sides so it makes no difference who you pick. They want it to be bush vs Clinton, the public wants new faces.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Count of Sabugosa
Nerdy floater



Registered: 08/20/15
Posts: 939
Last seen: 7 months, 28 days
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: Stonehenge]
#22383615 - 10/15/15 02:01 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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I doubt it that it will be Bush. And sometimes it's better to stick with experienced whores as opposed to putting new "to-surely-become" whores who are horrible at their jobs. Those whores cum, for Budha's sake.
-------------------- In Hebrew, the words "wine" and "secret" hold the same numerologic value. When wine comes in, secrets spill out. Do you think the person who said that knew mushrooms? When mushrooms come in... Is there anything beyond a secret?
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,347
Last seen: 14 minutes, 44 seconds
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: Stonehenge] 1
#22383686 - 10/15/15 02:17 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Stonehenge said: The evil powers that be, the big shots behind the scenes, are furiously working to get the election back on track so that only sold out whores are on both sides so it makes no difference who you pick. They want it to be bush vs Clinton, the public wants new faces.
They sure do want Bush vs Clinton, but they're not going to get it! Conservative America has been foaming at the mouth for a decade now, and liberal America is finally starting to get roused up also. The American political realm is catching fire.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Count of Sabugosa
Nerdy floater



Registered: 08/20/15
Posts: 939
Last seen: 7 months, 28 days
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And I love it. Fire sparks change. Biggest mistake the Dems made was pick Clinton for front-runner back in 2008.
-------------------- In Hebrew, the words "wine" and "secret" hold the same numerologic value. When wine comes in, secrets spill out. Do you think the person who said that knew mushrooms? When mushrooms come in... Is there anything beyond a secret?
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
Stonehenge said: The evil powers that be, the big shots behind the scenes, are furiously working to get the election back on track so that only sold out whores are on both sides so it makes no difference who you pick. They want it to be bush vs Clinton, the public wants new faces.
They sure do want Bush vs Clinton, but they're not going to get it! Conservative America has been foaming at the mouth for a decade now, and liberal America is finally starting to get roused up also. The American political realm is catching fire.
fuck yeah! down with the system! may the best man win!
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,347
Last seen: 14 minutes, 44 seconds
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
Stonehenge said: The evil powers that be, the big shots behind the scenes, are furiously working to get the election back on track so that only sold out whores are on both sides so it makes no difference who you pick. They want it to be bush vs Clinton, the public wants new faces.
They sure do want Bush vs Clinton, but they're not going to get it! Conservative America has been foaming at the mouth for a decade now, and liberal America is finally starting to get roused up also. The American political realm is catching fire.
fuck yeah! down with the system! may the best man win!
Now this I can agree with!
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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