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Count of Sabugosa
Nerdy floater



Registered: 08/20/15
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Ok, so now I know what your definition of tabloid is, and that I cannot abide by that definition. Good to know. To sum it up, excellent sources cited, as far as I'm concerned.
-------------------- In Hebrew, the words "wine" and "secret" hold the same numerologic value. When wine comes in, secrets spill out. Do you think the person who said that knew mushrooms? When mushrooms come in... Is there anything beyond a secret?
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Count of Sabugosa
Nerdy floater



Registered: 08/20/15
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
royque1980 said: Ok, so no quotes from Fox News at all. Also, why rebuffing what is said if you can ad hominem the media in which the information is delivered? Are all of these sites considered tabloids? Because, to me, MSNBC is a leftist tabloid, and Fox News is a right-wing fiction-story-teller, so, exactly what media is not tilted toward one or the other? Isn't that a tabloid in itself?
Actually Fox News is well known for telling all sides of a story, liberal, conservative, and libertarian...
Thats the reason libs hate it,
Ok, at least now I know your definition of "tabloids" and why I cannot abide by it at all. It is important to know that.
(double-post unintended)
-------------------- In Hebrew, the words "wine" and "secret" hold the same numerologic value. When wine comes in, secrets spill out. Do you think the person who said that knew mushrooms? When mushrooms come in... Is there anything beyond a secret?
Edited by Count of Sabugosa (09/21/15 12:48 PM)
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Quote:
royque1980 said: To sum it up, excellent sources cited, as far as I'm concerned.
Hey thanks. I'd love to see more sources from people that see things differently but most of the time I show them evidence I just get attacked.
Cognitive dissonance is a bitch
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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Count of Sabugosa
Nerdy floater



Registered: 08/20/15
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Last seen: 7 months, 26 days
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haha it seems hard - They attack the media, but without backup... Well, without backup we're all inhaling some nice smoke and fumes!
-------------------- In Hebrew, the words "wine" and "secret" hold the same numerologic value. When wine comes in, secrets spill out. Do you think the person who said that knew mushrooms? When mushrooms come in... Is there anything beyond a secret?
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said: Sure sounds unbiased to me.
Wow, they were reporting the news... Shocking...
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Count of Sabugosa
Nerdy floater



Registered: 08/20/15
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Ok, defending Fox News' credibility is... Well, I applaud your courage, honestly.
-------------------- In Hebrew, the words "wine" and "secret" hold the same numerologic value. When wine comes in, secrets spill out. Do you think the person who said that knew mushrooms? When mushrooms come in... Is there anything beyond a secret?
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
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Quote:
royque1980 said: Ok, defending Fox News' credibility is... Well, I applaud your courage, honestly.
Fox does provide all viewpoints, you can't disprove that, or you would, right? But since you can't you pretend that it's humorous, when everyone knows the jokes on the left...
And what news would you consider "credible"?
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Quote:
royque1980 said: Yeah... How about any source, please?
Source for what? That both parties are heavily populated by shitbags? That both parties do things they shouldn't? That anything one party has done, the other has as well?
Really? 
I weep for you.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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qman
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said: Fine. I'll dig up better sources as to why they're a hate group. Some quotes should work.
"As Whites see their power and control over their lives declining, will they simply go quietly into the night? Or will there be an explosion?" — FAIR founder and board member John Tanton, Oct. 10, 1986
"I've come to the point of view that for European-American society and culture to persist requires a European-American majority, and a clear one at that." — John Tanton, letter to eugenicist and ecology professor Garrett Hardin (now deceased), Dec. 10, 1993
"I blame ninety-eight percent of responsibility for this country's immigration crisis on Ted Kennedy and his political allies, who decided some time back in 1958, earlier perhaps, that immigration was a great way to retaliate against Anglo-Saxon dominance and hubris, and the immigration laws from the 1920s were just this symbol of that, and it's a form of revengism, or revenge, that these forces continue to push the immigration policy that they know full well are [sic] creating chaos and will continue to create chaos down the line." — FAIR President Dan Stein, "Oral History of the Federation for American Immigration Reform," interview of Dan Stein by John Tanton, August 1994.
"Do we leave it to individuals to decide that they are the intelligent ones who should have more kids? And more troublesome, what about the less intelligent, who logically should have less? Who is going to break the bad news [to less intelligent individuals], and how will it be implemented?" — John Tanton, letter to eugenicist Robert K. Graham (now deceased), Sept. 18, 1996
"Immigrants don't come all church-loving, freedom-loving, God-fearing … Many of them hate America, hate everything that the United States stands for. Talk to some of these Central Americans." — FAIR President Dan Stein, interviewed by Tucker Carlson, Oct. 2, 1997
The criticisms of the study speak for themselves. I hardly see why I should be embarrassed to discredit poor methodology steeped in white supremacy.
"They're a hate group"
Based on the above quotes? I don't think so, it's based on reality, you just don't like it.
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qman
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Quote:
royque1980 said: Why should one be embarassed to post their position and references? Isn't it NOT having sources at all a much greater embarassment? Because so far I have only said that some of you may be wrong, but I did not say you should be embarassed of anything. I don't see the logic of such embarassment...
Their whole argument is based on the premise that people who have issue with illegal immigrants are based on hate, when in fact it's a cultural and economic issue. It's pretty sad that they resort to such name calling instead of addressing the real issues.
Also, their next argument is that since anchor babies are technically US citizens, illegals don't cost us any money!!! Guess what? When an illegal gives birth and then goes on food stamps, welfare, public housing, Medicaid, and then sent children to school, it costs plenty of money that it shouldn't. That's their best debate method and it's fucking pathetic. Like I said, he should be embarrassed to post that garbage.
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Count of Sabugosa
Nerdy floater



Registered: 08/20/15
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: qman]
#22269631 - 09/21/15 02:05 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I don't see how it is not, qman, since at least debatable, every one of your reasons are indeed. It seems that the issue is stronger than any other logical reasoning. That makes me think this is strictly a matter of hatred.
About credible sources: Gather as much information as you can. Study gaps and contradictions. Use governental references for their take on the same statistics, etc. Just let us not be lazy about it.
-------------------- In Hebrew, the words "wine" and "secret" hold the same numerologic value. When wine comes in, secrets spill out. Do you think the person who said that knew mushrooms? When mushrooms come in... Is there anything beyond a secret?
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
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Quote:
royque1980 said: I don't see how it is not, qman, since at least debatable, every one of your reasons are indeed. It seems that the issue is stronger than any other logical reasoning. That makes me think this is strictly a matter of hatred.
About credible sources: Gather as much information as you can. Study gaps and contradictions. Use governental references for their take on the same statistics, etc. Just let us not be lazy about it.
"strictly a matter of hatred"
The only hatred I see is the complete dismissal of unskilled US citizens in the labor market, many who are minorities without a job!!
Check out this nonsense from his link- http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/04/09/fox-borrows-fact-on-immigration-costs-from-hate/193546
"Even if the jobs and businesses left vacant after deporting all unauthorized immigrants were somehow filled by Americans, the economic activity of those millions is still lost"
What's lost? More US citizens now have jobs that they DID NOT have before, that's called a GAIN. The people they came here illegally are now gone, where's the economic activity that's lost? It's not, again this is total garbage. This is honestly too easy to pick apart, should I go on?
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Count of Sabugosa
Nerdy floater



Registered: 08/20/15
Posts: 939
Last seen: 7 months, 26 days
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: qman]
#22269714 - 09/21/15 02:22 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Oh, so we are worried about minorities without a job, that IS good. Let us speak of the ways we can help them without deporting anyone (very plausible, by the way).
-------------------- In Hebrew, the words "wine" and "secret" hold the same numerologic value. When wine comes in, secrets spill out. Do you think the person who said that knew mushrooms? When mushrooms come in... Is there anything beyond a secret?
Edited by Count of Sabugosa (09/21/15 02:22 PM)
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qman
Stranger

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Quote:
royque1980 said: Oh, so we are worried about minorities without a job, that IS good. Let us speak of the ways we can help them without deporting anyone (very plausible, by the way).
It's a two issue problem, the first problem is the shipping of jobs to other parts of the world for higher profits, globalization is destructive to US workers.
The second issue is that the illegals now take what's left over of the low skilled domestic work, I honestly don't see a solution without deporting the illegals, there's only so much demand for labor.
"(very plausible by the way)"
Really? Because Japan, China, the EU, UK, and US economies would love to hear how easy it is to fix the problem, low skilled workers are suffering in all developed economies.
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Count of Sabugosa
Nerdy floater



Registered: 08/20/15
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: qman]
#22269785 - 09/21/15 02:38 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said: It's a two issue problem, the first problem is the shipping of jobs to other parts of the world for higher profits, globalization is destructive to US workers.
I wouldn't call it destructive, but I do agree with you that it is an issue.
Quote:
The second issue is that the illegals now take what's left over of the low skilled domestic work, I honestly don't see a solution without deporting the illegals, there's only so much demand for labor.
There might be if we are willing to discuss it. However, this is not perchance. It was something that both sides of the aisles have been allowing for years to benefit selected groups. So, in a way, it seems wrong to punish those who come here illegally... But yeah, we're getting somewhere.
Quote:
"(very plausible by the way)"
Really? Because Japan, China, the EU, UK, and US economies would love to hear how easy it is to fix the problem, low skilled workers are suffering in all developed economies.
It is not easy. I said plausible, not easy. By the way, they can't easily deport either. This is why this is an issue in Europe. But the last time they had these many problems was at the eve of WWII...
-------------------- In Hebrew, the words "wine" and "secret" hold the same numerologic value. When wine comes in, secrets spill out. Do you think the person who said that knew mushrooms? When mushrooms come in... Is there anything beyond a secret?
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
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Quote:
royque1980 said:
Quote:
qman said: It's a two issue problem, the first problem is the shipping of jobs to other parts of the world for higher profits, globalization is destructive to US workers.
I wouldn't call it destructive, but I do agree with you that it is an issue.
Quote:
The second issue is that the illegals now take what's left over of the low skilled domestic work, I honestly don't see a solution without deporting the illegals, there's only so much demand for labor.
There might be if we are willing to discuss it. However, this is not perchance. It was something that both sides of the aisles have been allowing for years to benefit selected groups. So, in a way, it seems wrong to punish those who come here illegally... But yeah, we're getting somewhere.
Quote:
"(very plausible by the way)"
Really? Because Japan, China, the EU, UK, and US economies would love to hear how easy it is to fix the problem, low skilled workers are suffering in all developed economies.
It is not easy. I said plausible, not easy. By the way, they can't easily deport either. This is why this is an issue in Europe. But the last time they had these many problems was at the eve of WWII...
"they can't easily deport either"
You're to caught up in the current day legalities and polices, all of that can be changed overnight. Once the general public and political will (Trump) is behind it like today, it becomes quite easy to accomplish.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,474
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: qman]
#22269838 - 09/21/15 02:48 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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How does one change the Constitution overnight? The only way I can think of is violent revolution.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: qman]
#22269848 - 09/21/15 02:50 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
royque1980 said: I don't see how it is not, qman, since at least debatable, every one of your reasons are indeed. It seems that the issue is stronger than any other logical reasoning. That makes me think this is strictly a matter of hatred.
About credible sources: Gather as much information as you can. Study gaps and contradictions. Use governental references for their take on the same statistics, etc. Just let us not be lazy about it.
"strictly a matter of hatred"
The only hatred I see is the complete dismissal of unskilled US citizens in the labor market, many who are minorities without a job!!
Check out this nonsense from his link- http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/04/09/fox-borrows-fact-on-immigration-costs-from-hate/193546
"Even if the jobs and businesses left vacant after deporting all unauthorized immigrants were somehow filled by Americans, the economic activity of those millions is still lost"
What's lost? More US citizens now have jobs that they DID NOT have before, that's called a GAIN. The people they came here illegally are now gone, where's the economic activity that's lost? It's not, again this is total garbage. This is honestly too easy to pick apart, should I go on? 
This goes back to the machine argument I've been making.
Anyway I admitted it was ad hominem when I posted it. The fact remains that FAIR's methodology cherry picked the data.
Something you've ignored or evaded every time I've mentioned it.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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qman
Stranger

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Quote:
paperbackwriter said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
royque1980 said: I don't see how it is not, qman, since at least debatable, every one of your reasons are indeed. It seems that the issue is stronger than any other logical reasoning. That makes me think this is strictly a matter of hatred.
About credible sources: Gather as much information as you can. Study gaps and contradictions. Use governental references for their take on the same statistics, etc. Just let us not be lazy about it.
"strictly a matter of hatred"
The only hatred I see is the complete dismissal of unskilled US citizens in the labor market, many who are minorities without a job!!
Check out this nonsense from his link- http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/04/09/fox-borrows-fact-on-immigration-costs-from-hate/193546
"Even if the jobs and businesses left vacant after deporting all unauthorized immigrants were somehow filled by Americans, the economic activity of those millions is still lost"
What's lost? More US citizens now have jobs that they DID NOT have before, that's called a GAIN. The people they came here illegally are now gone, where's the economic activity that's lost? It's not, again this is total garbage. This is honestly too easy to pick apart, should I go on? 
This goes back to the machine argument I've been making.
Anyway I admitted it was ad hominem when I posted it. The fact remains that FAIR's methodology cherry picked the data.
Something you've ignored or evaded every time I've mentioned it.
"FAIR's methodology cherry picked the data"
Really? Including the children born from illegal immigrants is "cherry picking"? Give us a fucking break, they shouldn't even be given US citizenship in the first place, and their costs are real and should be included in the equation.
Edited by qman (09/21/15 02:57 PM)
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Count of Sabugosa
Nerdy floater



Registered: 08/20/15
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: qman]
#22270153 - 09/21/15 03:51 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
You're to caught up in the current day legalities and polices, all of that can be changed overnight. Once the general public and political will (Trump) is behind it like today, it becomes quite easy to accomplish.
I wish ANY politician had the power that you are attributing to Trump. I hope you are right and wrong as well, because I don't agree with this particular policy. But I really am not pulling your leg when I say it is difficult. It is not a "today" thing that can be changed either overnight or often over decades.
-------------------- In Hebrew, the words "wine" and "secret" hold the same numerologic value. When wine comes in, secrets spill out. Do you think the person who said that knew mushrooms? When mushrooms come in... Is there anything beyond a secret?
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