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OfflineCount of Sabugosa
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The Trump Phenomenon
    #22211271 - 09/09/15 08:56 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

The Donald, The Trump, the "is this my real hair, or what? Feel that sucker!" phenomenon is a reality (show). Do you think that his poll rates indicate a certain deviation from the GOP original values?


How do you see his ratings in terms of its significance toward GOP potential voters? Is this a sign of demise or simple revolt? Is this a sign of really "just being tired with politics as usual" (a magical thinking toward the harsh reality that business as usual is what will happen and always has)?


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In Hebrew, the words "wine" and "secret" hold the same numerologic value. When wine comes in, secrets spill out. Do you think the person who said that knew mushrooms? When mushrooms come in... Is there anything beyond a secret?



Edited by Count of Sabugosa (09/09/15 08:57 AM)


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: Count of Sabugosa] * 1
    #22211311 - 09/09/15 09:13 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I think he's just a celebrity of sorts pretending to run for president to get a ton of attention.

People can't stop talking about it.


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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #22213066 - 09/09/15 04:26 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

People thought Reagan was a joke at first too. A movie actor running for president, it was unheard of.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Offlineqman
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22213332 - 09/09/15 05:18 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

People thought Obama was going to help out the poor and disadvantaged, and then we know what happened.  :smilingpuppy:


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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: qman]
    #22213363 - 09/09/15 05:24 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Careful, roy will start defending him.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22213890 - 09/09/15 07:28 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

People thought Reagan was a joke at first too.




  Some people still do .  By the time he left office 138 people in his admin had been indicted , investigated or convicted for something .  Reagan wins criminal investigations .

    1. Lyn Nofziger--White House Press Secretary - Convicted on charges of illegal lobbying of White House in Wedtech scandal. The lobbying would not have been illegal had he not been White House Press Secretary.

2. Michael Deaver, Reagan's Chief of Staff,  received three years' probation and was fined one hundred thousand dollars after being convicted for lying to a congressional subcommittee and a federal grand jury about his lobbying activities after leaving the White House. Same as with Lyn Nofziger.

3. James Watt, Reagan's Secretary of the Interior was indicted on 41 felony counts for using connections at the Department of Housing and Urban Development to help his private clients seek federal funds for housing projects in Maryland, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands. Watt conceded that he had received $500,000 from clients who were granted very favorable housing contracts after he had intervened on their behalf. Watt was eventually sentenced to five years in prison and 500 hours of community service.

4. John Poindexter, Reagan's national security advisor, guilty of five criminal counts involving conspiracy to mislead Congress, obstructing congressional inquiries, lying to lawmakers, used "high national security" to mask deceit and wrong-doing...

5. Richard Secord pleaded guilty to a felony charge of lying to Congress over Iran-Contra. Appointed by William Casey to assist Oliver North.

6.  Elliott Abrams was appointed by President Reagan in 1985 to head the State Department's Latin American Bureau. He was closely linked with ex-White House aide Lt. Col. Oliver North's covert movement to aid the Contras. Working for North, Abrams coordinated inter-agency support for the contras and helped solicit illegal funding from foreign powers as well as domestic contributors. Abrams agreed to cooperate with Iran-Contra investigators and pled guilty to two charges reduced to misdemeanors. He was sentenced in 1991 to two years probation and 100 hours of community service but was pardoned by President George Bush...

7. Robert C. McFarlane, Reagan's National Security Advisor, pled guilty to four misdemeanors and was sentenced to two years probation and 200 hours of community service. He was also fined $20,000. He received a blanket pardon from President George Bush...

        It's  a really long a really long Iist . Got bored reading it .
 
   
"The American Petroleum Institute filed suit against the EPA [and] charged that the agency was suppressing a scientific study for fear it might be misinterpreted... The suppressed study reveals that 80 percent of air pollution comes not from chimneys and auto exhaust pipes, but from plants and trees." Presidential candidate Ronald Reagan, in 1979.
 
    Holy shit  Did that really happen . ? The shit people could get away with saying back then is incredible .

    But maybe not , because as I'm writing this  I'm watching  the tea party patriots end the Iran deal thing  and trump is talking about how awesome he is , Sara palin  is literally waxing stupid , I don't even know what the fuck she is trying to say  , but she can still blow me if wants , glen beck is saying when people say there going to exterminate the Jew you should listen , and Michelle  Bachman is saying we should just start bombing  Iran . And the duck dynasty guy was there talking about God or something  not sure why he was there but apparently these are the people conservatives look up too .

 
  That was ....wow . Didn't give Reagan give weapons to Iran at one point?


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OfflineCount of Sabugosa
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22213956 - 09/09/15 07:42 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
People thought Reagan was a joke at first too. A movie actor running for president, it was unheard of.




No. People STILL think the man was a joke. And, in fact, he was. :smile:

Why careful Stone? That you don't know your feet from your head in a debate is clear. What if I defend him, which I obviously do, and am not alone (even reasonable reps know that). Are you scared that I can threaten your failed train of thought? Don't be. Be proud of your opinions :smile:


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In Hebrew, the words "wine" and "secret" hold the same numerologic value. When wine comes in, secrets spill out. Do you think the person who said that knew mushrooms? When mushrooms come in... Is there anything beyond a secret?



Edited by Count of Sabugosa (09/09/15 07:44 PM)


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: Count of Sabugosa]
    #22214490 - 09/09/15 09:36 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Roy, why do you constantly flame in these discussions? Are your arguments so weak that you have nothing else but personal attacks to fall back on? Not even woof does it that much.

>That you don't know your feet from your head in a debate is clear...

I mentioned Reagan because it was unheard of for a movie actor to run for president, not because no one in his administration broke any laws. That is a red herring type of strawman argument. Now days its unheard of for a newcomer to politics to run for president and to go against all the conventional wisdom. But, Reagan the actor who was laughed at at first ended up winning as we all know and got a second term. I mention him because it shows you do not have to follow the book and kowtow to all and sundry to win at politics.

Unfortunately Reagan was an alzheimers patient while in office and let his advisers and handlers make many of the decisions. He is famous for falling asleep during cabinet meetings. Before one of you say that means trump is no good, Reagan was an old guy, so is biden, he is 72 now. He doesn't seem demented but neither did Reagan when he ran. Trump is a youthful 57 or around that. Hitlery is old style dirty politics and I think we are all against her winning except obviously you, roy.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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OfflineCount of Sabugosa
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22215458 - 09/10/15 04:11 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I am not flaming for nothing. When I mentioned sheer belief you said "LOL, look who's accusing of sheer belief". It was not a personal attack, but, in your opinion, this was a lame argument on my part.

Well, when you argue that: Trump is honest. Trump is hands down better than Clinton, because he can fix Washington. When you say "typical leftist crap" (paraphrased), you are causing me to state that you are clearly not making sense.

How can there be personal attacks if I don't know you? If I didn't think you were intelligent I wouldn't be debating this with you.

In any case, I believe I have plenty to speak about, by experience and studies, and I am just as prone not to know my head from my feet when I make an argument.

It's part of this circus, Stone. Enjoy


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In Hebrew, the words "wine" and "secret" hold the same numerologic value. When wine comes in, secrets spill out. Do you think the person who said that knew mushrooms? When mushrooms come in... Is there anything beyond a secret?



Edited by Count of Sabugosa (09/10/15 06:19 PM)


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: Count of Sabugosa]
    #22216128 - 09/10/15 09:40 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

You know what I mean, vague general references to liberals doing whatever is not a personal attack, no more than your constant berating of conservatives. But, when you say things like "you are an idiot" (paraphrased) that is a personal attack. Flaming is against the rules, they may let it slide now and then but lets not stir up the pot with that because sooner or later they will hand out bans. Then we can't demolish your silly arguments any more. Note; I attack your argument but not your person.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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OfflinePatlal
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22216663 - 09/10/15 12:18 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

The problem with Trump is that he's making really good points. That's why he's still there. The other problem with Trump is that when he talks, you can't stop yourself from listening. What most people hate even more is that he's right...

His adversaries keeps saying he's a joke... The thing is, if the joke has 5 times more support than you do, what does that say about you?

Oh, and here's another unforseen problem about Trump. He's walking the gray zone between liberal and conservative. So he's appealing to the undecided moderate, he's appealing to the far right extremeists because they will vote for any Republican candidate over the Democrats even if it's a gorilla in suit. Bernie is too far on the left for most. So he positioned himself perfectly.


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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: Patlal]
    #22217111 - 09/10/15 02:23 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

The real problem with Trump is that if he gets elected, we'll see the whole "birther" movement rebranded to the "balder" movement.  They'll just be arguing over and over that he's not fit to be president because he lied about his toupee, etc.


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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: Enlil]
    #22217169 - 09/10/15 02:34 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

That actually makes more sense than most of your posts, en.

Pat, you are right about all that. He is even beating the bitch in many polls, and stomping poor old Bernie. How old is Bernie now, late 70's or something? The dems are getting trumped.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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OfflineCount of Sabugosa
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: Enlil]
    #22218029 - 09/10/15 06:18 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
The real problem with Trump is that if he gets elected, we'll see the whole "birther" movement rebranded to the "balder" movement.  They'll just be arguing over and over that he's not fit to be president because he lied about his toupee, etc.




And lie detectors are unreliable... Second that!

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
That actually makes more sense than most of your posts, en.

Pat, you are right about all that. He is even beating the bitch in many polls, and stomping poor old Bernie. How old is Bernie now, late 70's or something? The dems are getting trumped.




Not according to the polls...

Quote:

Race/Topic 
General Election: Trump vs. Clinton Quinnipiac Clinton 45, Trump 41
Clinton +4

General Election: Bush vs. Clinton Quinnipiac Clinton 42, Bush 40
Clinton +2

General Election: Rubio vs. Clinton Quinnipiac Clinton 44, Rubio 43
Clinton +1

General Election: Trump vs. Biden Quinnipiac Biden 48, Trump 40
Biden +8

General Election: Bush vs. Biden Quinnipiac Biden 45, Bush 39
Biden +6

General Election: Rubio vs. Biden Quinnipiac Biden 44, Rubio 41
Biden +3

General Election: Bush vs. Clinton vs. Trump Quinnipiac Clinton 40, Bush 24, Trump 24
Clinton +16

General Election: Trump vs. Sanders Quinnipiac Sanders 44, Trump 41
Sanders +3

General Election: Bush vs. Sanders Quinnipiac Sanders 43, Bush 39
Sanders +4

General Election: Rubio vs. Sanders Quinnipiac Rubio 41, Sanders 40
Rubio +1





When did I called you an "idiot," personally, in writing? I do not recall it. If I did, my apologies.

When you associate me to the "leftist blargh" you are assuming I think like them, and therefore it is a personal argument.

Why so serious? :jokerclap:


--------------------
In Hebrew, the words "wine" and "secret" hold the same numerologic value. When wine comes in, secrets spill out. Do you think the person who said that knew mushrooms? When mushrooms come in... Is there anything beyond a secret?



Edited by Count of Sabugosa (09/10/15 06:33 PM)


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: Count of Sabugosa]
    #22218280 - 09/10/15 07:07 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Oh really? How old was that result? Here are the real polls, not some whack job loony left site. I even give a link plus the quote, unlike you and enlil

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/president/

General Election: Trump vs. Clinton SurveyUSA Clinton 40, Trump 45 Trump +5
General Election: Trump vs. Biden SurveyUSA Biden 42, Trump 44 Trump +2
General Election: Trump vs. Sanders SurveyUSA Sanders 40, Trump 44 Trump +4


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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OfflineCount of Sabugosa
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22220011 - 09/11/15 03:47 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Oh really? How old was that result? Here are the real polls, not some whack job loony left site. I even give a link plus the quote, unlike you and enlil

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/president/

General Election: Trump vs. Clinton SurveyUSA Clinton 40, Trump 45 Trump  5
General Election: Trump vs. Biden SurveyUSA Biden 42, Trump 44 Trump  2
General Election: Trump vs. Sanders SurveyUSA Sanders 40, Trump 44 Trump  4



Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Oh really? How old was that result? Here are the real polls, not some whack job loony left site. I even give a link plus the quote, unlike you and enlil





I only use RealClearPolitics.com and if you notice better, yours is a SurveyUSA poll, while I have posted Quinnipiac's, CNN/ORC and PPP...

Quote:

Election 2016 Presidential Polls

Friday, September 11

General Election: Trump vs. Clinton CNN/ORC Clinton 48, Trump 48 Tie

General Election: Bush vs. Clinton CNN/ORC Clinton 47, Bush 49
Bush +2

General Election: Carson vs. Clinton CNN/ORC Clinton 46, Carson 51
Carson +5

General Election: Trump vs. Biden CNN/ORC Biden 54, Trump 44
Biden +10

General Election: Bush vs. Biden CNN/ORC Biden 52, Bush 44
Biden +8

General Election: Carson vs. Biden CNN/ORC Carson 50, Biden 47
Carson +3

Friday, September 5
General Election: Trump vs. Clinton PPP (D) Clinton 46, Trump 44
Clinton +2

General Election: Bush vs. Clinton PPP (D) Clinton 46, Bush 42
Clinton +4

General Election: Carson vs. Clinton PPP (D) Clinton 44, Carson 44 Tie

General Election: Rubio vs. Clinton PPP (D) Clinton 47, Rubio 43
Clinton +4

General Election: Fiorina vs. Clinton PPP (D) Clinton 45, Fiorina 43
Clinton +2

General Election: Cruz vs. Clinton PPP (D) Clinton 47, Cruz 42
Clinton +5

General Election: Trump vs. Biden PPP (D) Biden 47, Trump 41 Biden +6

General Election: Bush vs. Biden PPP (D)Biden 44, Bush 41
Biden +3

General Election: Trump vs. Sanders PPP (D)Sanders 42, Trump 43
Trump +1

General Election: Bush vs. Sanders PPP (D)Sanders 40, Bush 41
Bush +1

General Election: Bush vs. Clinton vs. Trump PPP (D) Clinton 42, Bush 23, Trump 27
Clinton +15





realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/president/#

Yeah, the dates are important. Notice that when dems lose, it is not Trump who plays the candidate most of the time? This week's and last week's polls (as well as the Quinnipiac poll). Can't argue with data, unless you have the means to contest it.


Edited by Count of Sabugosa (09/11/15 03:59 AM)


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: Count of Sabugosa]
    #22221451 - 09/11/15 11:23 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

So some polls say trump ahead and some say bitchlary. Naturally you only believe the ones that agree with your bias. I simply went to the site and copied the only stats I saw that included trump and the bitch, biden or sanders. I did not cherry pick. The only poll that counts is the official one on election day. You can't deny trump has surged constantly so far and some polls put him ahead of everyone else. Cry your eyes out but that's the way it is.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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OfflineCount of Sabugosa
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22222072 - 09/11/15 01:42 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
So some polls say trump ahead and some say bitchlary. Naturally you only believe the ones that agree with your bias.




No bias. Polls are in too soon, but there is one fact that these polls do show and that you seem to be so resistent to admitting it: Clinton is not being Trumped by the Donald. Hell, BIDEN is not being Trumped by the Donald

Quote:

I simply went to the site and copied the only stats I saw that included trump and the bitch, biden or sanders. I did not cherry pick. The only poll that counts is the official one on election day. You can't deny trump has surged constantly so far and some polls put him ahead of everyone else. Cry your eyes out but that's the way it is.




Really? How come you only have one source of polls and I presented: Quinnipiac, CNN/OR and PPP? Including the ones showing Republican winning (excluding single-party primaries)?

You are basically accusing me of what you are doing... It may work for you, but it doesn't seem to work very well in a debate, as you say, that only "points out logical reasoning behind opinions."

In any case, realclearpolitics.com shows all polls. I follow them weekly and read as much as I can compiled in the site. I know Clinton is losing popularity and Trump's popularity plateaued and, albeit in the national polls Trump might be gaining ground, he has a lot more to go.

Just as Sanders can gain ground if Biden does.


--------------------
In Hebrew, the words "wine" and "secret" hold the same numerologic value. When wine comes in, secrets spill out. Do you think the person who said that knew mushrooms? When mushrooms come in... Is there anything beyond a secret?



Edited by Count of Sabugosa (09/11/15 01:44 PM)


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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: Count of Sabugosa]
    #22222871 - 09/11/15 04:29 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

>Trump's popularity plateaued and, albeit in the national polls Trump might be gaining ground

So no matter what the polls say, you say he is not getting anywhere? He went from nowhere to being by far the most popular gop and has been gaining on bitchlary faster than sanders. Your hero hitlerly is sinking like a stone and will not survive much longer. But, if she is the nominee that's even better for trump because by then the billary fatigue we are seeing will hit peak and he will stomp her like Reagan stomped Dukakis. He might sweep all 50 states. Dems will shake their heads and have no clue why they got beat.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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OfflineCount of Sabugosa
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22223100 - 09/11/15 05:19 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:

So no matter what the polls say, you say he is not getting anywhere? He went from nowhere to being by far the most popular gop and has been gaining on bitchlary faster than sanders.




Show me evidence that, in these past 2 weeks, he gained more points as a GOP candidate in his primaries. I never said he is not getting anywhere, otherwise what would be the point of this post? About him gaining on Hillary faster than Sanders, that is at least a far-fetched view, since Sanders does not have a millionth part of the coverage Hillary and Donald have.

Quote:

Your hero hitlerly is sinking like a stone and will not survive much longer.




Can't disagree with you on that. Except perhaps let's flame less with hitlerian analogies, since I am a Jew.

Quote:

But, if she is the nominee that's even better for trump because by then the billary fatigue we are seeing will hit peak and he will stomp her like Reagan stomped Dukakis. He might sweep all 50 states. Dems will shake their heads and have no clue why they got beat.




I think (think) that Clinton can still beat Trump, but it would be one of the most bizarre presidential elections in modern history.

However, it is interesting that Trump may damage his party if not elected... Or is that not a possibility?


--------------------
In Hebrew, the words "wine" and "secret" hold the same numerologic value. When wine comes in, secrets spill out. Do you think the person who said that knew mushrooms? When mushrooms come in... Is there anything beyond a secret?



Edited by Count of Sabugosa (09/11/15 05:20 PM)


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