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Offlineqman
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22213332 - 09/09/15 05:18 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

People thought Obama was going to help out the poor and disadvantaged, and then we know what happened.  :smilingpuppy:


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Offlineqman
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: Magenta]
    #22259810 - 09/19/15 11:39 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Magenta said:
Quote:

royque1980 said:
The Donald, The Trump, the "is this my real hair, or what? Feel that sucker!" phenomenon is a reality (show). Do you think that his poll rates indicate a certain deviation from the GOP original values?


How do you see his ratings in terms of its significance toward GOP potential voters? Is this a sign of demise or simple revolt? Is this a sign of really "just being tired with politics as usual" (a magical thinking toward the harsh reality that business as usual is what will happen and always has)?




Trump is the downfall of your country

Vote for him if the next time I go to the states I want to see no homes and only expensive condos on south beach. I go to south beach quite often to see lady cakes.

I hate Trump. He is popular though, he might win against the voters who vote for the lowest common denominator because they :shitbird: the poles just for fun. I'm serious I would get an American citizenship just so I could go vote for Trump like as a fucking prank just to see how screwed up the country would become if he won.

What do you think zappaisgod?




"I hate Trump"

His annoying personality doesn't invalidate any of his positions (tariffs, trade with china, deporting illegal immigrants).


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Offlineqman
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: psilynut]
    #22260051 - 09/19/15 12:33 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

psilynut said:
Quote:



"I hate Trump"

His annoying personality doesn't invalidate any of his positions (tariffs, trade with china, deporting illegal immigrants).



    Nope , it's his complete inability to explain any of his positions or offer up even minor details in a debate  that invalidates  them .




What I find so ironic is that the MSM doesn't ever ask any of the other politicians (R's or D's) the "details" of their positions, but somehow Trump is the only one that doesn't provide them.

FYI, Trump has given plenty of details when it comes to tariffs, trade, and deportation.  The fact of the matter is, people don't like his answers.  People say, "you just can't deport an illegal, you can't build a wall, you can't talk tough to china", but guess what?  A leader can do all of those things and much more if free to do it.


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Offlineqman
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: Patlal]
    #22260098 - 09/19/15 12:46 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

What details did Obama give?  We are still waiting after 2 terms!!  :rofl2:


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Offlineqman
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: psilynut]
    #22261033 - 09/19/15 04:46 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

psilynut said:
Quote:

I find it smart that he doesn't give details from the get go like everyone else. It's not an easy decision like chosing what shirt to wear in the morning. All the other candidates seem to have it all figured out... The election is m



 
  If only we were all lucky enough to be considered qualified to do a job even though we dont really know how the fuck it is we are going to do anything . That would be nice.
    I've been building walls all my life , anyone who tells me building the kinda wall he's fantasizing about is easy and your going to make someone else pay for it is either a lying fucking cunt or actually mentally retarded.

 
Quote:



What I find so ironic is that the MSM doesn't ever ask any of the other politicians (R's or D's) the "details" of their positions, but somehow Trump is the only one that doesn't provide them.





  Ahh , mean ol media not being fair to your hero ? He's the one making claims people say isn't possible . If he can't back his shit up with big boy talk then fuck him . He's a pathetic liar .




When Obama promised access to health care for everyone, who claimed it was impossible?  Not many.  Now that we know Obama's promises never materialized, he is a "pathetic liar"?


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Offlineqman
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #22261131 - 09/19/15 05:12 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

qman said:
When Obama promised access to health care for everyone, who claimed it was impossible?  Not many.  Now that we know Obama's promises never materialized, he is a "pathetic liar"?



Are you saying you're upset that illegal immigrants didn't get coverage?  If not, what are you upset didn't happen???




Yeah, I cry myself to sleep every night stressing on how illegal immigrants don't get enough freebies.  :rofl2:

Are you suggesting that Obama made good of his health care promises?  Because we all can see he didn't.


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Offlineqman
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #22261158 - 09/19/15 05:19 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

qman said:
Are you suggesting that Obama made good of his health care promises?  Because we all can see he didn't.



I'm asking what promise you're upset about?




"Affordable".


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Offlineqman
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22261166 - 09/19/15 05:22 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

Stonehenge said:
My solution as always is to do away with legalized bribery. Stop that in all its forms and no more votes will be bought. There will still be log rolling, vote trading but not outright selling of votes. Big money will no longer rule the day.




If that was your solution you'd be a Sanders guy. He is trying to make campaigns publicly funded.

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

qman said:
When Obama promised access to health care for everyone, who claimed it was impossible?  Not many.  Now that we know Obama's promises never materialized, he is a "pathetic liar"?



Are you saying you're upset that illegal immigrants didn't get coverage?  If not, what are you upset didn't happen???




Yeah, I cry myself to sleep every night stressing on how illegal immigrants don't get enough freebies.  :rofl2:

Are you suggesting that Obama made good of his health care promises?  Because we all can see he didn't.




You have an impressive level of disdain for immigrants.

Obama did make good on his promise. Just not as good as we would have liked. Everyone does have access to healthcare.




Everyone had access to healthcare before as well, please tell us what's better about higher deductibles and higher co-pays with higher premiums?

Did you think he actually made good on his promises? Because even most liberals are highly disappointed in the end result.


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Offlineqman
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #22262460 - 09/19/15 10:08 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

qman said:
Everyone had access to healthcare before as well, please tell us what's better about higher deductibles and higher co-pays with higher premiums?

Did you think he actually made good on his promises? Because even most liberals are highly disappointed in the end result.



A higher deductible at a more affordable rate is still better than no insurance.





A higher deductible still makes health care un-affordable for most people, most people can NOT afford the first $5000 for health care services, so for the most part they are paying premiums for something they can't use, is there any wonder why the health insurance companies are making super duper profits.


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Offlineqman
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: Count of Sabugosa]
    #22263771 - 09/20/15 08:14 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

royque1980 said:
Why, disdain for "illegal" immigrants is ok? So, once they become legal, what happens to the disdain? Allocated? Just admit: Yes, you are right, I have disdain for immigrants (which, in this scenario, can only be illegal).




"disdain for "illegal" immigrants is ok?"

The disdain is the fact that they're here when in fact they should be in their homelands. It's nothing personal, it's called maintaining a country's sovereignty.

"once they become legal"

Not a chance in hell, the cat is out the bag on this policy.


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Offlineqman
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22263865 - 09/20/15 08:59 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
I have distain for criminals, particularly the violent type. I also despise thieves and swindlers. Does that mean I'm prejudiced? Damn right and anyone with half a brain in their head does the same thing.

Its amazing how propaganda can make people embrace things that keep them down. They don't connect the fact they can't get a decent job with illegals, they simply follow the bs the media shovels out and ask for more immigrants so they will be pushed even farther down the ladder.

Soon as we get that flaming jackass out of office we can start to fix things. Even though the moonbats will oppose every step of the way and then enjoy the fruits of the policies they fought against.




A lot of these misinformed people try comparing the legal immigration we had 100 years ago to today as an argument, that's how insane their line of reasoning has become, if they can't see the huge difference between the times I feel very sorry for them.


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Offlineqman
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: Count of Sabugosa]
    #22268354 - 09/21/15 08:04 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

royque1980 said:
Quote:

qman said:

The disdain is the fact that they're here when in fact they should be in their homelands. It's nothing personal, it's called maintaining a country's sovereignty.




You are by far, but by far, very, very far off in your definition of country's soverignty, even though control of illegal immigration is part of the political realm, in international relations, of domestic management.

So, first, just to be clear, this is NOT and never WILL BE  an issue of country sovereignty.

About disdain, I don't think it was something that needed to be said. The tone is not rational when referring to people who are here illegally. It is a feeling that you are allowed to have, by the way, and at least I grant you that it has no relevance in the technicalities of any debate, but it does show intent and origin of thought. I don't understand why it is so easy to express disdain for a political idea, but not for the people involved in it. I prefer honesty.

Also, about "once they become legal." This is how immigration works, actually. You are illegally in the country and, depending on personal conditions, you get your visa and/or green card. I was not talking about amnesty, but about the regular process of naturalization.






When someone is in the US illegally, they are suppose to be deported, when Trump gets elected the process will start in full force.

"get your visa and/or green card"

They can apply for one when they are returned to their homelands.


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Offlineqman
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: Count of Sabugosa]
    #22268860 - 09/21/15 11:03 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

royque1980 said:
No trolling. You stated something in regards to Obama, and then I replied that your "rare" "my way or the highway" is much better exemplified in President Cheney (Puppeteer of Bush Jr.).

I am pretty sure that if I come off as a fool to you, my intelligence has been proved well focused and functional.

Quote:

qman said:

When someone is in the US illegally, they are suppose to be deported, when Trump gets elected the process will start in full force.




No, he won't. Not because he doesn't want to, but because he would not be able to do it. In any case, that is as best an assessment as I could make of it.

Quote:

"get your visa and/or green card"

They can apply for one when they are returned to their homelands.




This is not how all immigration procedures work. Sir, have you seen the laws regarding immigration AT ALL? Please, if one already doesn't clearly understand the meaning of "Nation-State Sovereignty," and now you show you REALLY don't understand the issue you are spouting on and about, please, at least come back with SOME facts and let luvdemshrooms do the same, I beg ya.

It would be nice if you checked this source and made a couple of phone calls.

http://www.uscis.gov/







"he would not be able to do it (deport illegals)

It's really not that hard, you find them and then deport them, end of story.

You don't get it, it's not about a path to citizenship, it's about deporting people that entered the US ILLEGALLY!!


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Offlineqman
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: Count of Sabugosa]
    #22268930 - 09/21/15 11:18 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

royque1980 said:
Please, qman, especially when saying: "It's really not that hard." Call a GOP or DEM representative and ask if it is truly as simple as Trump is making you think it is.

About "it is not about a path to citizenship"... Again, try to learn the issue before spouting whatever. It is ALWAYS about a path to citizenship. By the way, what are the hard facts that makes this issue so concerning to you?




Why would I call a GOP or DEM representative about the issue? You do realize that both parties are bought and paid for on this issue?  Remember Eric Cantor? 

"It is ALWAYS about a path to citizenship"

Not anymore, it's now about a path to their homelands!!

"this issue so concerning to you"

Well, since we have over 50 million working eligible US citizens not working and we have 30 million illegals taking their jobs, we all should be concerned.

BTW, illegals use 8 TIMES more in tax revenue than they contribute, that's unacceptable for any US citizen. 

We already have too many poor people in the US that need jobs and social services, illegals hurt the disadvantaged in the US, do you even care about your fellow American?


Edited by qman (09/21/15 11:24 AM)


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Offlineqman
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #22269136 - 09/21/15 12:18 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

paperbackwriter said:
Quote:

qman said:
BTW, illegals use 8 TIMES more in tax revenue than they contribute, that's unacceptable for any US citizen. 




Are you citing that FAIR study again?  I'm going to repost this every time you bring this shit up.

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2015/anti-immigration-groups

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/04/09/fox-borrows-fact-on-immigration-costs-from-hate/193546

Finally, some criticism of that study itself rather than the ad hominem above.

http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/just-facts/statistical-hot-air-fair%E2%80%99s-usa-report-lacks-credibility

https://cei.org/sites/default/files/Alex%20Nowrasteh%20-%20WebMemo%20-%20A%20FAIR%20Criticism.pdf




You should be embarrassed to post those things, but something tells me you're to naïve to know any better.


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Offlineqman
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #22269445 - 09/21/15 01:38 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

paperbackwriter said:
Fine.  I'll dig up better sources as to why they're a hate group.  Some quotes should work.

"As Whites see their power and control over their lives declining, will they simply go quietly into the night? Or will there be an explosion?"
— FAIR founder and board member John Tanton, Oct. 10, 1986

"I've come to the point of view that for European-American society and culture to persist requires a European-American majority, and a clear one at that."
— John Tanton, letter to eugenicist and ecology professor Garrett Hardin (now deceased), Dec. 10, 1993

"I blame ninety-eight percent of responsibility for this country's immigration crisis on Ted Kennedy and his political allies, who decided some time back in 1958, earlier perhaps, that immigration was a great way to retaliate against Anglo-Saxon dominance and hubris, and the immigration laws from the 1920s were just this symbol of that, and it's a form of revengism, or revenge, that these forces continue to push the immigration policy that they know full well are [sic] creating chaos and will continue to create chaos down the line."
— FAIR President Dan Stein, "Oral History of the Federation for American Immigration Reform," interview of Dan Stein by John Tanton, August 1994.

"Do we leave it to individuals to decide that they are the intelligent ones who should have more kids? And more troublesome, what about the less intelligent, who logically should have less? Who is going to break the bad news [to less intelligent individuals], and how will it be implemented?"
— John Tanton, letter to eugenicist Robert K. Graham (now deceased), Sept. 18, 1996

"Immigrants don't come all church-loving, freedom-loving, God-fearing … Many of them hate America, hate everything that the United States stands for. Talk to some of these Central Americans."
— FAIR President Dan Stein, interviewed by Tucker Carlson, Oct. 2, 1997

The criticisms of the study speak for themselves.  I hardly see why I should be embarrassed to discredit poor methodology steeped in white supremacy.




"They're a hate group"

:lolwut: Based on the above quotes?  I don't think so, it's based on reality, you just don't like it.


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Offlineqman
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: Count of Sabugosa]
    #22269519 - 09/21/15 01:49 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

royque1980 said:
Why should one be embarassed to post their position and references? Isn't it NOT having sources at all a much greater embarassment? Because so far I have only said that some of you may be wrong, but I did not say you should be embarassed of anything. I don't see the logic of such embarassment...




Their whole argument is based on the premise that people who have issue with illegal immigrants are based on hate, when in fact it's a cultural and economic issue. It's pretty sad that they resort to such name calling instead of addressing the real issues.

Also, their next argument is that since anchor babies are technically US citizens, illegals don't cost us any money!!!  Guess what?  When an illegal gives birth and then goes on food stamps, welfare, public housing, Medicaid, and then sent children to school, it costs plenty of money that it shouldn't. That's their best debate method and it's fucking pathetic. Like I said, he should be embarrassed to post that garbage.


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Offlineqman
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: Count of Sabugosa]
    #22269684 - 09/21/15 02:17 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

royque1980 said:
I don't see how it is not, qman, since at least debatable, every one of your reasons are indeed. It seems that the issue is stronger than any other logical reasoning. That makes me think this is strictly a matter of hatred.

About credible sources: Gather as much information as you can. Study gaps and contradictions. Use governental references for their take on the same statistics, etc. Just let us not be lazy about it.




"strictly a matter of hatred"

The only hatred I see is the complete dismissal of unskilled US citizens in the labor market, many who are minorities without a job!!

Check out this nonsense from his link- http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/04/09/fox-borrows-fact-on-immigration-costs-from-hate/193546

"Even if the jobs and businesses left vacant after deporting all unauthorized immigrants were somehow filled by Americans, the economic activity of those millions is still lost"

:huxleyfacepalm:  What's lost?  More US citizens now have jobs that they DID NOT have before, that's called a GAIN.  The people they came here illegally are now gone, where's the economic activity that's lost?  It's not, again this is total garbage. This is honestly too easy to pick apart, should I go on?  :lol:


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Offlineqman
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: Count of Sabugosa]
    #22269761 - 09/21/15 02:32 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

royque1980 said:
Oh, so we are worried about minorities without a job, that IS good. Let us speak of the ways we can help them without deporting anyone (very plausible, by the way).




It's a two issue problem, the first problem is the shipping of jobs to other parts of the world for higher profits, globalization is destructive to US workers.

The second issue is that the illegals now take what's left over of the low skilled domestic work, I honestly don't see a solution without deporting the illegals, there's only so much demand for labor.

"(very plausible by the way)"

Really? Because Japan, China, the EU, UK, and US economies would love to hear how easy it is to fix the problem, low skilled workers are suffering in all developed economies.


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Offlineqman
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Re: The Trump Phenomenon [Re: Count of Sabugosa]
    #22269834 - 09/21/15 02:48 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

royque1980 said:
Quote:

qman said:
It's a two issue problem, the first problem is the shipping of jobs to other parts of the world for higher profits, globalization is destructive to US workers.




I wouldn't call it destructive, but I do agree with you that it is an issue.

Quote:

The second issue is that the illegals now take what's left over of the low skilled domestic work, I honestly don't see a solution without deporting the illegals, there's only so much demand for labor.




There might be if we are willing to discuss it. However, this is not perchance. It was something that both sides of the aisles have been allowing for years to benefit selected groups. So, in a way, it seems wrong to punish those who come here illegally... But yeah, we're getting somewhere.

Quote:

"(very plausible by the way)"

Really? Because Japan, China, the EU, UK, and US economies would love to hear how easy it is to fix the problem, low skilled workers are suffering in all developed economies.




It is not easy. I said plausible, not easy. By the way, they can't easily deport either. This is why this is an issue in Europe. But the last time they had these many problems was at the eve of WWII...




"they can't easily deport either"

You're to caught up in the current day legalities and polices, all of that can be changed overnight. Once the general public and political will (Trump) is behind it like today, it becomes quite easy to accomplish.


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