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mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
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UK CANNABIS DEBATE OCTOBER + NEW PETITION 10/09/15 update
#22211258 - 09/09/15 08:51 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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after recent petition to parliment reached 200000 votes a debate is going ahead.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/parliament-to-debate-cannabis-legalisation-next-month-10492510.html
will this lead anywhere?
i sit here this afternoon with a nice cup of tea, wondering what to think ? how to respond? who to say it too? the government announce they are to debate legalization of cannabis... again... to us average joes it gives a glimper of hope but we know really it means nothing! The debate will centre around the wrong issues and with the wrong views and fueled by mis-information that at best is misleading and at worst takes mental gymnastics to work out what and how the selective reasoning reduces common sense to the point stalemate time and time again.
quote from the independant: The Government’s official response to the petition was negative. It read: “Substantial scientific evidence shows cannabis is a harmful drug that can damage human health. There are no plans to legalise cannabis as it would not address the harm to individuals and communities.”
now lets look at this harm a little bit from average joes point of view and then weigh it all up on your scales...
its true lots of people live in poverty because they use money for cannabis. its true it effects children involved in those families. its true that money goes into the blackmarket instead of staying in circulation.. the affects of this go without saying. black market money funds other illegal operations here and abroad.. again affecting the lower classes of society more often than not but im not going to go into detail on these subjects just touch base with them. its also true a small percentage of cannabis users will experience difficulties with mental health possibly made worse by cannabis use and in a small percentage of cases from within the group of people who do experience difficulties can say the cannabis triggered the difficulties.
i will not deny the above. any law around drug use should be about harm reduction and the enforcement of said laws should not be more damaging than the difficulties that they are trying to protect the public from or it makes no sense.
now i will paint a picture for you... a young man who has a weakness for cannabis. maybe even is on benefits so has little money. he is of the lower classes of society and it seen and treated as such. he dosent contribute to the system only takes. also he is labeled a criminal. maybe he has had trouble with the law regarding cannabis. ultimately he has the label of being an un-desireable.
now lets look deeper... the man uses cannabis, maybe because he has problems or pain and he finds it helps. or maybe it just increases his sense of happiness and wellbeing. after all it shows by the amount of people on anti depressants that generally the affects of the world is hard on the soul and most need help to alleviate this. its not going to go away. stress management is needed by modern humans for obvious reasons that again i wont go into. back to average joe... he looks at his use of cannabis and the harm to the economy, himself, his family ect. what option has he if he is to continue to use cannabis? the only conclusion any right minded person would be to grow your own. it feeds the economy, money is kept in circulation, the blackmarket suffers, money is freed up improving the quality of life for the user and his family.
but on the other hand... its illegal and seen as worse than going to a dealer in the laws eyes! nevermind your being responsible, reducing harm to you and others, helping the community by not encouraging dealers, boosting economy with all the soil ,nutrients and other items you now spend money on. you are punished for taking the moral high ground and refusing to be apart of and feed a corrupt system. infact punished more than if you was propping up the corrupt system that is the blackmarket by buying from a street dealer!
now lets slip into the twighlight zone for a minute..
now imagine average joe could legally grow weed. now it would not affect his family or his pocket. he moves up the social heiracy with new confidence. he sees all the old dealers fade away into the back ground. and now he grows and supplys patients with medicine for income that is taxed. he now is a contributer and is seen as such. he is a civil servant helping the needy and has position. he is a productive human and a happy one.
now the big shift here is the legality! now can you not see in most cases the law and the enforcement of such laws causes more harm than good. that is unjust and is not fit for purpose. its causing more of a problem that the substance it claims to be saving people from. now we are told weed is the biggest problem and hashish was not as bad and we should have stay with that. now i will put it to you that it is your war on drugs that removed hash from our streets, tbh most i know would prefer good quality hash as it is cheaper. the drug war 5 or even 10 years ago, after a few high profile busts removed important trade connections with the uk and cut the profitability to risk ratio of hash dealers. now thousands of people started to grow cannabis to fill the market. just look at the figures, your figures! the hash went because of you... the amount of growers went up to the point we now export from here! all these number are on your hands. thats the effects clear on paper of your war on drugs. you have filled the streets with strong weed. every action has an equal and opposing reaction and all that. now if we are to believe the rise in mental health problems is from us smoking weed and not hash that was far safer.. then again its on your hands. again i urge you to look at the figures and stats your so proud of! they can tell a different story if you look properly. you can clearly see the affects and harm caused by the laws and enforcement itself when looked upon from your own position and view point as to why it remains illegal!
now i urge you to look at the world model and you will see legalization does not increase the levels of mental illness nor does it harm communitys or encourage more teens to use drugs.
now no right minded person can deny the medical application of cannabis. if you do your simply not in touch with the real world. if cannabis had no history with man and it was discovered in the rainforest today without all the fixed notions about it, it would be hailed as a master achievement in science! the amount of uses not just medical it is literally gobsmacking and could fuel a whole new business age for so many countries that need it and need it now.
to put it simply average joe wants to be good and on the right side but you dont allow him to! i will also say the war on drugs is lost, it was lost long ago, that happened right at the time socially we decided without your input that cannabis was here to stay. we the people will smoke no matter on the legal viewpoint that exists in government at the time. stop wasting precious resources on fighting a war only you are fighting in. it really is laughable. you really have no control over the matter but we are still willing to side with you should you make the right decisions! it takes real men to do that, to sit and reach common ground and mutual understanding. so while you twiddle your thumbs arguing over your assumed power we will carry on and do as always, but when your ready to accept the outcome then we will sit and be real men and sort out the details and even put the power back in your hands.
your rebuttals of late hold no leverage , even in scientific circles to date any trusted resaerch has been in favour of cannabis legalisation and medical application. the overwhelming concensus is that harm from cannabis is slim to none. ten potatoes has more toxins that 1g of weed. cigarettes? alcohol? prescription opiates? deaths from asprin or paracetamol 20p a bottle anywhere?
and imo the potential for abuse is the same as anything... yes anything!!
sugar, caffiene you name it. now is the time to grow up. and the real question the public want to know is are you with us or against us? the choice is yours either way the outcome is the same. now will you work with us to reduce harm from cannabis and also the harm that arises purely because of the legal situation at hand
this is the only debate or questions you need to look at! do you want to turn these undesirables into productive and contributing members of society and also reduce harm and to provide much needed care for sick members of society and to become a country that is pioneering research in to new medicines with real prospects across the boards?
i say the only other option is madness... after all isnt just repeating the same thing and expecting a different outcome really just madness.
the sad thing is most expect the government wont legalise until they find a way to profit from it like cigs and alcohol. if it turns out to be the case in the end ... shame on you
concerned citizen mustangbob
feel free to cut and paste away:)
spread the word get everyone you know in uk to sign the petition! lobby your mps and send the parliment a message from average joe telling our side!
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Edited by mustangbob3 (09/10/15 02:58 AM)
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Mostly_Harmless
wyrd bið ful aræd



Registered: 05/12/09
Posts: 5,043
Loc: Perfidious Albion
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Re: UK CANNABIS DEBATE OCTOBER [Re: mustangbob3]
#22211280 - 09/09/15 09:00 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Parliament will debate the legalisation of cannabis next month, House of Commons authorities have announced.
MPs will consider a proposal to make the “production, sale and use of cannabis legal” on Monday 12 October.
The debate will be held in response to an official petition on the Parliament website that has received over 211,000 signatures as of early September.
The debate, to be conducted in Westminster Hall, will be led by Labour MP Paul Flynn, a member of Parliament’s petitions committee.
Mr Flynn has previously called for the legalisation of cannabis for medical use, introducing bills in 1999 and supporting another in concert with Lib Dem MP Tom Brake in 2008.
Next month’s debate is unlikely to lead to any change in the law, though it could put pressure on the Government to act.
The Government’s official response to the petition was negative. It read: “Substantial scientific evidence shows cannabis is a harmful drug that can damage human health. There are no plans to legalise cannabis as it would not address the harm to individuals and communities.”
It said legalisation would “send the wrong message”, and told Independent.co.uk it had no comment on whether it believed cannabis is more harmful than alcohol.
However a study published this summer in the US found that cannabis users were no more likely than normal to suffer mental health problems including depression, psychosis, or asthma.
Jon Liebling, the political director of the United Patients alliance, which campaigns for medical cannabis, said: “We urge all of our MPs to participate in an informed, pragmatic, evidence-based, compassionate debate resulting at the very least in allowing sick people a legitimate, effective medicine that vastly improves their quality of life without fear of criminalisation.”
While many countries across the developed world have moved to legalise or decriminalise cannabis use, the UK has moved to tighten restrictions on it in recent years.
In 2009 the last Labour government moved its classification back to a Class B drug, meaning anyone caught possessing it can be sent to prison for five years, while anyone who supplies it can be imprisoned for 14 years.
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You must gather your party before venturing forth.
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mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
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a new counter petition has been started but needs 5 signatures to go live.
all support welcome and needed. it wont amount to much but its another bit of pressure on the government and opens up more options and more potential avenues to explore.
at worst will just give us more information to debunk and weaken the ground they cling on too! shortening the time till end goal.......
Quote:
Hi,
I've made a petition – will you sign it?
Click this link to sign the petition: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/108139/sponsors/gelcQhLkiWTdIidQ51
My petition:
be able to grow 4 flowering cannabis plants for personal use in privacy of home
this would be in line with our human rights that should allow us the right to a 'private and family life' but 0 tolerance on sales of all drugs. stopping street dealers should be first intended goal to address the present harm to communties
letting average joe take the moral high ground and not prop up the blackmarket by buying from street dealers would improve the financial situation for the user and family, drug dealers suffer,economy is stronger, money stays in circulation, harm is reduced the situation allows governments platform to address most harm caused by the cannabis industry and protecting the young like with alcohol and cigs. laws should be the same as homebrewing alcohol. limited and controlled. zero tolerance on sale!
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Click this link to sign the petition: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/108139/sponsors/gelcQhLkiWTdIidQ51
UK shroomerite hope you get behind this, when we finally get it done mushrooms should follow.
tbh there has been talk of britain, wales in particular , taking advantage of it natural psilocybin resource for export for medical reasons in the future so who knows where it may lead.
thanks for your time and any support
ps get your friends and family to sign too, facebook and twitter ect make it easy work. the first petition is averaging 1 vote per min at moment...
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roquet
Expat tippler


Registered: 05/29/07
Posts: 1,195
Loc: Dubai بجدية عربي...
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Re: new petition- UK CANNABIS DEBATE [Re: mustangbob3]
#22215523 - 09/10/15 04:54 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
mustangbob3 said: tbh there has been talk of britain, wales in particular , taking advantage of it natural psilocybin resource for export for medical reasons in the future
Do you have a link to backup that claim? Because it sounds completely unbelievable to me.
If magic mushrooms were going to be used to produce pharmaceutical grade psilocybin, they would grow psilocybe cubensis indoors. Wales has psilocybe semilanceata growing wild in fields in season, but I can't imagine picking them for a source of medical psilocybin would be commercially viable.
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Mostly_Harmless
wyrd bið ful aræd



Registered: 05/12/09
Posts: 5,043
Loc: Perfidious Albion
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Re: new petition- UK CANNABIS DEBATE [Re: roquet]
#22215597 - 09/10/15 05:47 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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There was this bit of waffle back in 2006 but the original link is dead
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/1854083
Quote:
Labour MP Paul Flynn has called for Welsh youngsters to be given grants to export magic mushrooms. Mushrooms from his Welsh constituency - Newport West - can command a price of =A32,000 per kilo in Amsterdam where connoisseurs consider them to be some of the most powerful in the world.
Magic mushrooms - which the MP called 'the truffles of Wales' - may be legally consumed in the UK provided they are not 'prepared' for example in tea or cakes when they would be classified along with heroin as a class A= drug.
Mr Flynn in an interview for the programme Y Byd Ar Bedwar said that, 'It is perfectly legal to send them fresh from Wales; nobody is poisoned by them, nobody is addicted. Why on earth not exploit the market and get the Welsh Development Agency to give a grant for a few young people to set up a= business?'
Nigel Evans, Tory MP for Ribble Valley, and a frequent critic of drug liberalisation, criticised the Labout MP for, 'encouraging people to take drugs and sell them'. Mr Evans owns a shop in Swansea which sells tobacco.
Mr Flynn responded, 'Magic mushrooms are among the least harmful (drugs). No one has ever died after using them but 100,000 die every year as a result of tobacco use.'
A spokesman for Tony Blair - the UK Labour Party leader - said that Mr Flynn's views were not shared by the Labour Party.
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You must gather your party before venturing forth.
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mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
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thanks mostly_harmless
i couldnt think where to link to lol
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roquet
Expat tippler


Registered: 05/29/07
Posts: 1,195
Loc: Dubai بجدية عربي...
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Quote:
Mostly_Harmless said: There was this bit of waffle back in 2006 but the original link is dead
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/1854083
Thanks, interesting find. But it is a 12 year old thread - 2003 - and the UK laws on magic mushrooms have been tightened up since then. They're now illegal even when fresh, and they're also now illegal in Holland too. So there's no reason to think Wales will be exporting magic mushrooms anytime soon.
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