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OfflineThatKidWithTheFace
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Re: Sharia law. Pros and cons. [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #22212253 - 09/09/15 01:27 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Because Islamic countries are all about law and order :rolleyes:


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OfflineDr.Wongburger
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Re: Sharia law. Pros and cons. [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #22212280 - 09/09/15 01:34 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Ellis Dee said:
Again I want to make it clear that I never said sharia was a good idea but originally I stated that if the Islamic contexts were removed like no drinking and being critical of Islam then the punishments would all be good.

Koraks made it clear that the system is flawed in other ways. So it seems to me the only virtue this style of law has is in its harsh but fair punishments. Robbers should have their hands cut off, if you intentionally harm someone and they lose an eye you deserve to lose yours too. It also has a good basis in making for a stable family based society in which children are well taken care of by their parents instead of by a welfare state with their anti-adultery and anti-homosexuality provisions, which I find harsh but fair. If someone decides to ruin a stable family unit or undermine that family unit they do deserve to die. That was what Moses originally proscribed and it is still fair today.

If these harsh style punishments could be incorporated into a better legal system, like that of Singapore, with the exclusion of the Islamic bits such as no alcohol then it would be ideal. And crime would be at such low levels as to be nearly non-existant.





Quote:

Ellis Dee said:
Aside from not being able to get a drink or draw their prophet it seems pretty fair to me. Do you think all those folks on Ashley Madison should be stoned to death? It would certainly help the sanctity of marriage to enforce the law harshly and fairly. It would also pretty much ensure near zero street crime (banditry). I think a lot of folks would support this if the Islamic context of blasphemy and no drinking were erased from the system of jurisprudence.




I'm not sure if you are quoting the holy bible by mentioning moses but your source- verse(s) would not be bad to post. Regardless thats looking at the book with out a sense of Shalam. However I know many Christians do that today. If so, you should clarify how that is related to Islam. I just woke up... I'm a little sleepy right now :shrug:

That's fair to you? I guess thats like your opinion man. What is your Country of origin or what Country do you reside in?
Have you ever heard of Cruel and unusual punishment? You sound very un-American. With that type of society rulers are expecting unquestioning obedience. You trust your government that much? You trust your Government to decide if you get to keep your hand or eye ball? Can you really depend on man that much? You really think they are always going to be on your side with out a agenda? All they would have to do is lie then cut your hand off. You want a Government to have that much power? They can simply say "You do this, we will do this.", It almost leans towards a totalitarian government. I almost take this as a troll thread just to stir people up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruel_and_unusual_punishment

If you are a American and your not sure why we don't cut people's hands off and such, I suggest you seriously do some studying on American history, human dignity, and the different unusual and cruel punishments that have been in the world threw out the years.

Why would you wish that terrible stuff on Singapore?


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Sharia law. Pros and cons. [Re: Dr.Wongburger]
    #22212362 - 09/09/15 01:57 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Dr.Wongburger said:
I'm not sure if you are quoting the holy bible by mentioning moses but your source- verse(s) would not be bad to post. Regardless thats looking at the book with out a sense of Shalam. However I know many Christians do that today. If so, you should clarify how that is related to Islam. I just woke up... I'm a little sleepy right now :shrug:

That's fair to you? I guess thats like your opinion man. What is your Country of origin or what Country do you reside in?
Have you ever heard of Cruel and unusual punishment? You sound very un-American. With that type of society rulers are expecting unquestioning obedience. You trust your government that much? You trust your Government to decide if you get to keep your hand or eye ball? Can you really depend on man that much? You really think they are always going to be on your side with out a agenda? All they would have to do is lie then cut your hand off. You want a Government to have that much power? They can simply say "You do this, we will do this.", It almost leans towards a totalitarian government. I almost take this as a troll thread just to stir people up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruel_and_unusual_punishment

If you are a American and your not sure why we don't cut people's hands off and such, I suggest you seriously do some studying on American history, human dignity, and the different unusual and cruel punishments that have been in the world threw out the years.

Why would you wish that terrible stuff on Singapore?



I am American to answer your question. And proud to be so!

I take a look at things from what I think is an objective point of view. We incarcerate more people than anywhere else on Earth. More people are getting rediculous long probation terms for trivial things. We have pedophiles that are so dangerous that all we can do is warn their neighbors to keep an eye on them. Black children grow up on welfare and have becoming a criminal as their greatest aspiration. Something is seriously wrong here.

The traditional harsh on crime long sentencing and mandatory minimum things are a total failure. Maybe its time to reform the constitution and reimpose the traditional penalties for crimes. If a person breaks in your house and is captured they cut off his hand. If a person robs a gas station they cut off their hand. If a person has adultery they get not just publicly humiliated but stoned too. How many welfare babies will there be? Just a few from widows and orphans instead of  millions from trashy women looking at each kid as a boost in their welfare check. I know its harsh. The world is a harsh place and the only ting I can guarantee about it is that you will pay taxes and eventually die. Sorry if this spoils your utopian dreams.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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OfflineTheGreenArrow
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Re: Sharia law. Pros and cons. [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #22212454 - 09/09/15 02:17 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Ellis Dee said:
Quote:

TheGreenArrow said:
Got to give the Islamic people one thing, they sure are motivated... :shrug:  Makes me think about Hassan I Sabbah and his devotees.  Now that guy had some serious followers.  I read a story somewhere about one of his descendants telling a man to jump off the side of a wall and he just did it.

I think the man was trying to prove a point about power to a foreign dignatary or something.  Makes you wonder about the human mind honestly.



If we had all the mk-ultra gear and tools available to use we could lock someone in a room for a few weeks, work them over with the mk-ultra and make them our robot too. Hassan I Sabbah would be so utterly jealous he'd break down and blush.



What gets me is Hassan I Sabbah was one of the first to use chemicals as a way to program his followers into doing what he wanted.  Apparently he's studied at the top collegescat the time and specialized in politics and "chemistry/alchemy".  He was one of the first to pioneer chemical imprinting by setting up a  "paradise" for his followers. 
He'd get them to smoke what's been speculated as a mix of Afghan hashish and a tiny bit of some tropane alkaloid.  Then he'd have his heirum to come fuck the bejeesus out of his most devotees.  When they woke up later he'd tell them that was paradise and if they fought for his cause they'd get to go back if they martyred themselves in the name of the cause.

It's actually where the term "assassin" came from, it was a bastardization of "hashassin".


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A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an
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sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the
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equation, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a
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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Sharia law. Pros and cons. [Re: TheGreenArrow]
    #22212522 - 09/09/15 02:33 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

TheGreenArrow said:
What gets me is Hassan I Sabbah was one of the first to use chemicals as a way to program his followers into doing what he wanted.  Apparently he's studied at the top collegescat the time and specialized in politics and "chemistry/alchemy".  He was one of the first to pioneer chemical imprinting by setting up a  "paradise" for his followers. 
He'd get them to smoke what's been speculated as a mix of Afghan hashish and a tiny bit of some tropane alkaloid.  Then he'd have his heirum to come fuck the bejeesus out of his most devotees.  When they woke up later he'd tell them that was paradise and if they fought for his cause they'd get to go back if they martyred themselves in the name of the cause.

It's actually where the term "assassin" came from, it was a bastardization of "hashassin".



lol what dumbfucks to fall for that. :laugh2:


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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OfflineTheGreenArrow
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Re: Sharia law. Pros and cons. [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #22212534 - 09/09/15 02:35 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

You're the guy touting the merits of such a great religion.


--------------------
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an
invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, conn a ship, write a
sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the
dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve an
equation, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a
computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects.- Robert A. Heinlein
Saint RedBow of the Shroomey Loomey-Patron Saint of Sandbaggin Sumbitchs


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Sharia law. Pros and cons. [Re: TheGreenArrow]
    #22212549 - 09/09/15 02:38 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

TheGreenArrow said:
You're the guy touting the merits of such a great religion.



No I'm not. I hate their religion. I only like their tough on crime approach to jurisprudence, but I realize now that even that is flawed.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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OfflineDr.Wongburger
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Re: Sharia law. Pros and cons. [Re: Ellis Dee] * 1
    #22212919 - 09/09/15 03:57 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Ellis Dee said:
I am American to answer your question. And proud to be so!

I take a look at things from what I think is an objective point of view. We incarcerate more people than anywhere else on Earth. More people are getting rediculous long probation terms for trivial things. We have pedophiles that are so dangerous that all we can do is warn their neighbors to keep an eye on them. Black children grow up on welfare and have becoming a criminal as their greatest aspiration. Something is seriously wrong here.

The traditional harsh on crime long sentencing and mandatory minimum things are a total failure. Maybe its time to reform the constitution and reimpose the traditional penalties for crimes. If a person breaks in your house and is captured they cut off his hand. If a person robs a gas station they cut off their hand. If a person has adultery they get not just publicly humiliated but stoned too. How many welfare babies will there be? Just a few from widows and orphans instead of  millions from trashy women looking at each kid as a boost in their welfare check. I know its harsh. The world is a harsh place and the only ting I can guarantee about it is that you will pay taxes and eventually die. Sorry if this spoils your utopian dreams.




I'm not a anarchist so I have no dreams for a Utopia. I do agree that things are messed up sometimes such as a person can be raped and the rapist be sentenced less time than those that are of drug offenders. However since the world is a harsh place, why would you want to make it worse/ more harsh? You probably could get in big trouble for participating on a drug forum such as the shroomery under those standards. Do you like having the right to visit this website and the allowance of internet access? As a American I would like to think that you would be against a authoritarian or a totalitarian government. Since your on our soil your playing a game you will never win. :thumbup:

You should do some research on why our founding fathers gave their lives for this nation, to implement these freedoms and things such as the Constitution. Have you ever read the constitution? I own a copy of it.

Give up a few rights here and there then you start giving them all up. Those who trade freedom for security deserve neither. You have a right to have consensual sex with any one you want for example. Many people will find your argument absurd.



I can't see how you are implying that I'm believing for a Utopia with my libertarian view points when your Sharia law is aiming for a "crime less society threw harsh punishments". You complain of the incarceration rate. Long probation terms. Pedophiles, and poverty of African Americans. No welfare babies? No trashy women looking at each kid as a boost in their welfare check? No "traditional harsh on crime long sentencing and mandatory minimum things" (that was a hard sentence to understand)? No adultery? It sounds to me (and every one else reading) like you are wishing for a utopia. One which you will never achieve in this nation. Liberty and Justice for all is what we aim for.

Reason for edit- Added information.


Edited by Dr.Wongburger (09/09/15 04:04 PM)


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Sharia law. Pros and cons. [Re: Dr.Wongburger]
    #22213013 - 09/09/15 04:17 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Fair enough. Check your ratings. :thumbup:


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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OfflineDr.Wongburger
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Re: Sharia law. Pros and cons. [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #22213047 - 09/09/15 04:23 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

aww thanks so much  :smile: . You just took all the fun out of this for me tho. I have been waiting for a response.

Well.. shit. I guess Ill just go smoke me a tobacco/ hemp cigarette now... then eat some dinner lol.


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